I do not think the god of deceit would need our help falsifying divine signature, he can gut his own snakes if he wants, he lives in the same world as them after all.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I do not think the god of deceit would need our help falsifying divine signature, he can gut his own snakes if he wants, he lives in the same world as them after all.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Do you really expect showing the God of Crimes a method to impersonate other deities to not end up causing shenanigans?
Or, on a more meta level, do you expect the consequences of "Faith" and "Prudence" votes to be interchangeable?
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Faith
I don't want gods to be fingerprinted.
Our gods are, fundamentally, good. They protect humanity against predations of chaos.
Trying to reveal their mechanisms and treat them like a machine to be disassembled and studied (without their consent, especially) feels like a great betrayal.
Seriously- why?
There's nothing (much, anyway) wrong with our gods. Why change the status quo when it's not bad? Why seek truth when it'll be no different from Liber Mortis, unusable in the light?
Yes, this knowledge may not be corruptive in itself. But the risk to unravelling pantheons and causing massive conflict is... it just goes against forces of Order.
Also, we have multiple other paths to incredible power, even if those don't lead to godhood.
We are already under crushing weight of AP deficiency.
Do you want to spend tons of AP to research the cults, prepare the heist, and deal with the consequences?
I don't want gods to be fingerprinted.
Our gods are, fundamentally, good. They protect humanity against predations of chaos.
Trying to reveal their mechanisms and treat them like a machine to be disassembled and studied (without their consent, especially) feels like a great betrayal.
Seriously- why?
There's nothing (much, anyway) wrong with our gods. Why change the status quo when it's not bad? Why seek truth when it'll be no different from Liber Mortis, unusable in the light?
Yes, this knowledge may not be corruptive in itself. But the risk to unravelling pantheons and causing massive conflict is... it just goes against forces of Order.
Also, we have multiple other paths to incredible power, even if those don't lead to godhood.
We are already under crushing weight of AP deficiency.
Do you want to spend tons of AP to research the cults, prepare the heist, and deal with the consequences?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Faith
Okay, not going to be able to read all the discussion this has triggered. But my entire brain is yelling NO.
I was more enthused about the Theurgy research when Mathilde wasn't planning on stealing Divine imprints from other Gods. She is not in a position of desperation where this would make sense, she has dozens of plates to spin and armfuls of other exciting research lines. Catastrophic potential downsides for questionable potential upsides. She's a Ranaldian, and she's a Grey Wizard, and she's a deeply curious person who pushes the limits of sanity to get the ideal result, but my favorite moments from her are when she is an adult who stamps down on all of that to do the boring sensible thing. As much as it kills me to ever choose Faith over Truth as a matter of principle, I have to look at this setting and conclude that this is a place where opening forbidden boxes is almost always going to punish you.
Okay, not going to be able to read all the discussion this has triggered. But my entire brain is yelling NO.
I was more enthused about the Theurgy research when Mathilde wasn't planning on stealing Divine imprints from other Gods. She is not in a position of desperation where this would make sense, she has dozens of plates to spin and armfuls of other exciting research lines. Catastrophic potential downsides for questionable potential upsides. She's a Ranaldian, and she's a Grey Wizard, and she's a deeply curious person who pushes the limits of sanity to get the ideal result, but my favorite moments from her are when she is an adult who stamps down on all of that to do the boring sensible thing. As much as it kills me to ever choose Faith over Truth as a matter of principle, I have to look at this setting and conclude that this is a place where opening forbidden boxes is almost always going to punish you.
I expect him to be able to do that already because he is the god of crimes and as for what I expect to get out of this maybe a one time boon for the act and then gone. The intent behind a lot of the faith votes is not to use AP. I expect that to be reflected in the results.
Pretty much yes, I expect it to end with Ranald saying, "Well now that you put me on record, that's that, shut it down."
Honestly I don't even care that much about copying the signatures of other gods in the future, I mainly just feel not owning this opportunity and instead turning away from the possibilities is a disappointing character development for Mathilde.
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- Location
- Oklahoma
I don't see how we'd spread this knowledge of the gods to people who could make use of it without revealing we were studying their gods.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Pretty much yes. It won't really go anywhere unless we make it go anywhere. Boney does not create more of the setting unless we engage with it and Faith doesn't really.
After all Mathilde is the MC, not Ranald and even if Ranald gets up to some sheningans we probably won't see much of it.
kfrar
Aspiring Encyclopedia
[X] Truth
Ranald was paying enough attention to us while we were chatting with Ljiljana to instantly hear her message and give us a response.
Mathilde spent several weeks preparing to run experiments with AV, the Coin, and magic signature crystals.
There's no way Ranald wouldn't at some point notice what we were up to, unless He figured out what we were doing and deliberately buried His head in the sand for the sake of plausible deniability in case the Cults see what we're up to.
(And Boney has confirmed that the plausible deniability take is possible, and something Mathilde would know of from certain Grey Order ops, so I don't think the above interpretation is a reach.)
Ranald was paying enough attention to us while we were chatting with Ljiljana to instantly hear her message and give us a response.
Mathilde spent several weeks preparing to run experiments with AV, the Coin, and magic signature crystals.
There's no way Ranald wouldn't at some point notice what we were up to, unless He figured out what we were doing and deliberately buried His head in the sand for the sake of plausible deniability in case the Cults see what we're up to.
(And Boney has confirmed that the plausible deniability take is possible, and something Mathilde would know of from certain Grey Order ops, so I don't think the above interpretation is a reach.)
I think I do, only one has a lot more wrist slapping/head patting than the other.
... Which sounds kinda dumb, now that I say it out loud. Obviously they are distinct choices with different consequences.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Probably let collage handle it laundring, launder it via friendly priests, leave it in our will as a last resort. There is probably even more.
- Location
- Philippines
[X] Faith
I want research but only if our friend doesn't take offense at it, and the way to find out is voting Faith.
Yes, submission to another will and judgement, that is what I call friendship.
All the shouts of friend Ranald ring rather hollow when the result is unthinking submission, at least call it what it is.
- Location
- Utrecht
Unless Ranald asks Mathilde to go collect samples for him so he can impersonate other gods to their cults.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Ranalds part of this is already done since he allowed us to do it already. There is no further crimes against him in here. We are talking about other gods now and Khaine or Stormfels could be our first targets if we want.
Saying this option is screwing Ranald over is pure fearmongering without anybasis on reality.
Plenty of gods are not fundamentally good. Is why.
There are plenty of cults running around that cause a huge amount of trouble
How is it screwing around with him? The issue is posters have come up with a mindset for why this is a "betrayal" that doesn't to me at all match the character of Ranald or the in quest guidelines He's given us.
- Location
- Denial
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Checking someone is ok with you taking a course of action that could cause them a ton of trouble if it goes wrong is not "unthinking submission"
It if you decide to do what they want before even hearing them out, it is submitting yourself to their will before they have even given an argument.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
Reaches are things that are possible, but very unlikely. So yeah, the stuff in parentheses just isn't a good argument.
If Ranald knows what we are doing, why not just tell him? That's how trust is built and not violated.
This is sorta the thing you do with friends about investigating something deeply personal you know they might not like: Ask them if it's okay first.
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Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
No it is not according to GM. If you want research take the Truth option is what he said. You are kidding yourself if you think you are going to get your cake and eat it too which is what this talk is.
Unlikely and implusable. There is no point arguing for this with such baseless arguments.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Checking with Ranald is what will cause Ranald a ton of trouble, if he then agrees that Mathilde should go and do her plan. Like literally, it's the act of asking if Ranald is okay with this course of action that would make that course have negative consequences for him, otherwise he can go "Who me? I didn't know!"
The obvious reason if Mathilde screws up and Ranald gave her the go ahead the eclesiastical blow back will land on him, if she doesn't tell him he's free and clear.
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- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Like Chaos gods, yes.
Guess which gods we won't be poking, out of fear of corruption/drawing their immense(ly hostile) attention?