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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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das_slash said:
By choosing faith we are explicitly rejecting ever having a real hard look at the nature of the gods, doubt we are getting another with a "Faith, but Truth also" choice. this is it.
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This is a load of shit. Faith means that this specific avenue is closed. No duplicating essence and storing it in crystals. It has no implications on any other avenue of research into the Divine, just that this one is no bueno because copyright infringement on Ranald is a dick move and we're handing the copy we made by accident over to him.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I'm getting a little annoyed with the arguments that are presenting the "faith" option as the "friendship" option. Last time I checked, I didn't submit to my friend's Authority or allow them to Judge me.

Faith isn't being Ranald's friend, it's reinforcing our relationship as one of master and servant. And whilst some people may be interested in that (and it is a valid approach) every cell in my body is screaming to reject it.

"Truth" might be the "no gods no masters" route, but "faith" is the route of "I have a Master, and His Name is Ranald".

And I don't want that.
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Respecting someones boundries is a not sign of subservience. Neither is accepting that your friend has autority over their own stuff.
If you somehow manage to clone a tiny piece of your friend, keep it secret from them, and run experiments on it, I think they would be very justified to judge you for doing it without their knowledge or consent.
 
Shane_357 said:
This is a load of shit. Faith means that this specific avenue is closed. No duplicating essence and storing it in crystals. It has no implications on any other avenue of research into the Divine, just that this one is no bueno because copyright infringement on Ranald is a dick move and we're handing the copy we made by accident over to him.
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What other avenues of divine research exactly do you think there are?

In three years of questing this is the first and only one we've had thus far.
 
Tobtorp said:
Boney has heavily implied that faith will probably not let us pursue the research but maybe gets us a headpat from ranald.

Boneys words were literally "if you want to pursue the research actually vote for the option where you pursue the research."
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My mistake. I am sticking to it. I don't want to risk the fallout of the literal gods disapproval, or the wrath of their followers if they found out.
 
This feels like a time where he'd want us to go behind his back? Like if we bring this to His attention He kinda has to shut us down or put Himself at massive risk.

It really feels weird that He didn't see anything just now, when we were messing with His coin ya know? Too coincidental.

Shane_357 said:
This is a load of shit. Faith means that this specific avenue is closed. No duplicating essence and storing it in crystals. It has no implications on any other avenue of research into the Divine, just that this one is no bueno because copyright infringement on Ranald is a dick move and we're handing the copy we made by accident over to him.
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We could just ya know, Not look at him any further? Stick to peeping at Sigmar?
 
Shane_357 said:
This is a load of shit. Faith means that this specific avenue is closed. No duplicating essence and storing it in crystals. It has no implications on any other avenue of research into the Divine, just that this one is no bueno because copyright infringement on Ranald is a dick move and we're handing the copy we made by accident over to him/
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This research path came from the intersection of a Divine artifact given to us and a unique substance never before seen, past paths to divine Insight were given directly by the Gods and they quickly learned not to do it again.

You really think we are going to stumble on another way to study the gods just like that? Cython has been at it for centuries.

We have this one shot, if you ever want to study Gods take it.
 
DragonParadox said:
Because she has the chance to fill in a gap in the understanding of the colleges that has existed since they have.
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There's lots of gaps in the understanding of the colleges. She's literally running an institute dedicated to filling in one of those gaps right now.

What makes this so different that she should suddenly do an about-face on one of her deeply held beliefs?
 
Welp faith is in the lead and probably will remain so now, guess I have to hope Ranalds gambler and night prowler face is on when we sacrifice it.
 
[X] Faith
[X] Prudence

Not a chance, you start playing in that kiddy pool you start running the chance of fucking outlandish consequences. Forget getting the Sigmarites pissed, playing fuck-fuck games here could run all the way into unraveling the conceptual fabric of Order as a faction.

Boney is letting us vote truth, sure, but just keep in mind we've had multiple completely legit vote options to turn into a Black Magister and exert our awesome powers into outrageous acts of Necromancy.
 
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das_slash said:
This research path came from the intersection of a Divine artifact given to us and a unique substance never before seen, past paths to divine Insight were given directly by the Gods and they quickly learned not to do it again.

You really think we are going to stumble on another way to study the gods just like that? Cython has been at it for centuries.

We have this one shot, if you ever want to study Gods take it.
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SuperSonicSound said:
What other avenues of divine research exactly do you think there are?

In three years of questing this is the first and only one we've had thus far.
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@Boney could you please lay down a WOG if possible? Nothing I've seen in your WOGs for this vote so far says this is anything but scaremongering, but if it isn't, I'd like to know if possible.
 
Redshirt Army said:
There's lots of gaps in the understanding of the colleges. She's literally running an institute dedicated to filling in one of those gaps right now.

What makes this so different that she should suddenly do an about-face on one of her deeply held beliefs?
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Sorry you're going to have to back up an assertion here in what way is truth an about face on one of her deeply held beliefs?
 
[x]Truth

Redshirt Army said:
I, for one, have faith that showing the God of Crime a mechanism for divine identity theft will lead to some interesting shenanigans all by itself.
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picklepikkl said:
But I give a lot of shits about Ranald, personally. The dude has had our back over and over. We only have the Aethyric Vitae because Ranald was looking out for us -- the fucking snake kept failing its rolls to manifest, the one time it was about to manifest Ranald's Blessing sent a cat to protect us, and then it rolled a 50 and got trapped in a superposition of life and death. And yes, that's a blurring of the lines between the fiction of the story and the meta knowledge of the quest in which dice rolls govern reality, but, like, Mathilde's fortune has been really good, and she has to have noticed that in fiction. With his help, we stole Queekish from the skaven. With his help, we dismantled Alkharad's operation in a single night of prowling. With his help, we survived four rounds of direct combat against an empowered champion of the Chaos God of direct combat.

I am 100% fine with tempting the wrath of every god from Aach to Wulfor (this rhetorical flourish would be better if there were gods beginning with X, Y, or Z, but I work with what I've got). But I don't want to do something Ranald would find a violation of his person. I want to work in partnership with him and not at cross (ha) purposes -- and I know the partnership that Faith would involve isn't a research partnership, but I'm sure he can think of something interesting to do with it.
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You are both right, but there is a point you are not seeing gentlemen: If Ranald is happy by giving him a mechanism for divine identity theft, he will be happier if we give the method to him alongside a few preexisting falsified gods credit cards as a proof of concept.
 
Even if you believe that this situation is test of faith, '[] Faith option is better because it is an explicit display of piety' line of reasoning seems wrong to me.

Mathilde practices her wholehearted belief in Ranald by doing things that are in line with him; she rose to prominence as His worshipper by doing things that He noticed and that amused and delighted Him, and continued to be in His good graces by practicing lies, deception, theft and protection with spectacularly good results.

[] Truth option better aligns with Mathilde's devotion to Ranald, as it is actively doing what are His principles. And the Gods we'll steal secrets of are not fellow worshippers of Ranald, so there is no contradiction with the no harming fellow worshippers principle, and it's a theft of secrets, purest form of theft there is, so it is particularly pious.
 
[X] Faith
Look I'm not saying that "we entrust ourselves to Ranald" or "if we do research we will be betraying Ranald"
I just want to go to our friend and brag about this cool thing we did and get divine head pats. Plus we already have a lot of ways to spend our time. Look how long this took us to do in the first place.
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that just as the "Faith" option isn't going to secretly turn out to also be the "research" option too, so too will the "Truth" option not also turn out to have been the "be pious to Ranald" option all along.

"Vote for what you actually want" cuts both ways.
 
myrix said:
Even if you believe that this situation is test of faith, '[] Faith option is better because it is an explicit display of piety' line of reasoning seems wrong to me.

Mathilde practices her wholehearted belief in Ranald by doing things that are in line with him; she rose to prominence as His worshipper by doing things that He noticed and that amused and delighted Him, and continued to be in His good graces by practicing lies, deception, theft and protection with spectacularly good results.

[] Truth option better aligns with Mathilde's devotion to Ranald, as it is actively doing what are His principles. And the Gods we'll steal secrets of are not fellow worshippers of Ranald, so there is no contradiction with the no harming fellow worshippers principle, and it's a theft of secrets, purest form of theft there is, so it is particularly pious.
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You might want to put an X into that vote and put it Into its own line, otherwise it might not get counted.
 
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