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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I'm not really sure why we would want to sell the orbs to, well, anyone.
I guess trying to wheedle some runelore from the dawi might be worth it to some.
Arcane Khazalid maybe.
But i feel that we don't really need the runelore, and pretty sure arcane khazalid can be learned without orb trade.
 
LawsOfRobotics said:
I wasn't sure if the "Try it and find out™" meant it was confirmed we can do it so I didn't include it on my list of approved spells, but reflecting on it now that was more likely Boney not wanting to nail down the details of the spell before we have voted to actually make it and he's rolled on how well it goes.
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While this eliminates the issue of light source, the problem with burning shadows on personal scale is that the spell just really isn't that powerful. The two times it got any amount of screen time, it was bass boosted by divine might. Otherwise its just... not that strong.
 
pucflek said:
While this eliminates the issue of light source, the problem with burning shadows on personal scale is that the spell just really isn't that powerful. The two times it got any amount of screen time, it was bass boosted by divine might. Otherwise its just... not that strong.
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Yeah, Ulgu doesn't have strong directly harmful spells until you get up to Fiendishly Complex or Battlemagic, which is not what you want to use to experiment with Windherding enchanting. That is why the Cloak of Flashy Escapes or a Burning Shadows Lantern are somewhat underwhelming. I think there is potential to be explored with Mathilde developing spells where she needs to cast with Ulgu and it synergizes with the magic being cast by an enchantment of another wind. That allows her to deal with any instabilities in the interaction of the winds because the Ulgu is under her active control, while gaining the effects of a second wind, without needing to bring a second wizard along. An example is the Incite Conflict Windherding spell on my list.
 
I can't imagine making more Orbs any time soon, at least while AV is such a finite resource with so many competing uses for it. As far as the Colleges are concerned, going from 'unique' to 'two' is a much bigger leap than from two to three or more, and while I'm sure all kinds of Magisters will be brainstorming new uses for them, it'll take some years for the leadership to winnow out what's actually worth pursuing.

Liminal space research, besides being a much deeper well of lore to delve in, is more likely to double back to the topic of liminal boundaries and how to actually increase AV production without resorting to infinite demon snake farming.
 
LawsOfRobotics said:
Yeah, Ulgu doesn't have strong directly harmful spells until you get up to Fiendishly Complex or Battlemagic, which is not what you want to use to experiment with Windherding enchanting. That is why the Cloak of Flashy Escapes or a Burning Shadows Lantern are somewhat underwhelming. I think there is potential to be explored with Mathilde developing spells where she needs to cast with Ulgu and it synergizes with the magic being cast by an enchantment of another wind. That allows her to deal with any instabilities in the interaction of the winds because the Ulgu is under her active control, while gaining the effects of a second wind, without needing to bring a second wizard along. An example is the Incite Conflict Windherding spell on my list.
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I think focusing on the illusionism or utility for ulgu was a good call, as it can deliver much more potent effects for less complexity in those areas, we just fumbled it. Next time might be better. Thought I am unsure which combination exactly we should try.
 
pucflek said:
While this eliminates the issue of light source, the problem with burning shadows on personal scale is that the spell just really isn't that powerful. The two times it got any amount of screen time, it was bass boosted by divine might. Otherwise its just... not that strong.
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The solution here is to windherd Burning Shadows as a targeting enchantment with a different spell for firepower. We've already proven the concept on a larger scale. (See: Our towers.)
 
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Glau said:
I really dislike this trope, tbh. It feels like mid-century sexism, and too much like the "a man spent months painting a beautiful woman, then put a mirror in her hand and called the painting 'vanity'" joke- men projecting an obsession with women's appearance onto the women and then blaming them for it.
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To be honest, everyone, man, woman or nonbinary, would want to be young (or at least anime old) forever, being old sucks and so does looking like a decrepit corpse.
 
Glau said:
I really dislike this trope, tbh. It feels like mid-century sexism, and too much like the "a man spent months painting a beautiful woman, then put a mirror in her hand and called the painting 'vanity'" joke- men projecting an obsession with women's appearance onto the women and then blaming them for it.
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I like the trope, at least in RPGs. Can you really say there would not be many people who would pick such a character unironically, and then do their little sorceress quests while saying "Ha ha, yes!"? Not because they're making fun of the idea, but because they find playing like that fun?

A vain (derogatory) character can be bad to see, I guess. But isn't the badness really more from the (derogatory)?
 
Glau said:
I really dislike this trope, tbh. It feels like mid-century sexism, and too much like the "a man spent months painting a beautiful woman, then put a mirror in her hand and called the painting 'vanity'" joke- men projecting an obsession with women's appearance onto the women and then blaming them for it.
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I do get where you are coming from but the thing is that projection isn't just in the brush of the painter it's everywhere and because it's everywhere it is sometimes made true. I could sit here and type all the reasons why Neferata might be vain given her upbringing and general history and how it is not even really vanity not to want to look like a skeleton with glowing green eyes but at the end of the day I cannot argue with preference, just wanted to point out that issue up there. Men are often obsessed with the beauty of women and said women often notice and internalize the mode of thinking.
 
I had Kupfer on my list of frail, old LMs, but on reflection that might just be because it gets the Bursar touchy. Or it's old injuries instead of old age.
 
Natch said:
I can't imagine making more Orbs any time soon, at least while AV is such a finite resource with so many competing uses for it. As far as the Colleges are concerned, going from 'unique' to 'two' is a much bigger leap than from two to three or more, and while I'm sure all kinds of Magisters will be brainstorming new uses for them, it'll take some years for the leadership to winnow out what's actually worth pursuing.
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There are not that many competing uses for AV. It can power Anvil Runes, it can create Orbs, and it can create Liminal realms. That's... basically it?

I guess you can use it to transport/create lots of Winds easily, but that's not something you're going to spend gallons on.
 
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Andres said:
<Dwarf Calendar>

@Boney what the heck is heke Since the Reikspiel word for witch would've followed the Khazalid one, does 'heke' come from contact with Hekarti or some other "heky" thing like 'bok' comes from the sound of hitting your head? Also, why do they use 'zhuf' when referring to magic instead of something derived from 'heke'?
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Boney said:
It could be a cultural import from the time of their close relationship with the Elves, it could be a root word that both 'hekes' and 'Hekarti' descend from, or it could be a false cognate and it's just an arbitrary sound associated with a meaning.



To avoid the negative connotations that Khazalid words that explicitly refer to magic have accumulated.
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This is actually a clever hint at one of the deepest secrets of the Karaz Ankor, from their long ago collaboration with beastmen, a common expression of confusion that some runelords picked up while trying to work out their beastman magic...we should look for signs of other "hamchats" in more khazalid, see if there are more hints :V


If this also doesn't load try either Hamster Speak by Yosh-E-O or
View: https://imgur.com/a/bzp5qVV
 
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Abby Normal said:
This is actually a clever hint at one of the deepest secrets of the Karaz Ankor, from their long ago collaboration with beastmen, a common expression of confusion that some runelords picked up while trying to work out their beastman magic...we should look for signs of other "hamchats" in more khazalid, see if there are more hints :V
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The image is broken, I can't see it.
 
Parabola said:
There are not that many competing uses for AV. It can power Anvil Runes, it can create Orbs, and it can create Liminal realms. That's... basically it?

I guess you can use it to transport/create lots of Winds easily, but that's not something you're going to spend gallons on.
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I guess it's so unique and valuable that we could assign any shady use to it and have it hold up to scrutiny?

Chuck a vial of it in the general direction of a necromancer and swing branulhune around a few times, turn the coin to the deceiver and witnesses might believe you when you say that's what made the enemy skeletal army crumble, even though we're really doing is using the second secret of dhar.

Hard to think of a more valuable legitimate use than anvil runes and orbs though.
 
Parabola said:
There are not that many competing uses for AV. It can power Anvil Runes, it can create Orbs, and it can create Liminal realms. That's... basically it?

I guess you can use it to transport/create lots of Winds easily, but that's not something you're going to spend gallons on.
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I mean, that's "only" two different factions' superweapons sharing a single trickle of fuel. The Dawi have one war scheduled already and several optional hell-wars, while to our knowledge the Colleges haven't deployed their orb-altars in a while. Their standards for what merits orb deployment may change in the coming years, but right now if AV is being invested in military needs, dwarves are the better bet.

As far as other uses, that's kind of what we're hoping to find introducing it to the Colleges, no? Liminal realms are already a whole field of research Mathilde has barely touched, and I'm guessing there'll be at least seven new fields when non-Mathilde non-Grays see it for the first time.
 
picklepikkl said:
If we're hiring an external Collegiate mage to provide a non-Ulgu non-Hysh Wind to enchant with (reminder that the golden boys are not enchanters), that's not a WEB-MAT action. This is e.g. why researching the Seed with Panoramia was a personal action: she's not part of WEB-MAT. The only things that are a WEB-MAT action are ones taken with some non-null subset of Max/Johann/Egrimm and nobody else, or recruitment.
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Couldn't we have Johann and Max use their WEB-MAT AP to learn enchanting? I don't think either of them have noted being bad at it so much as not having prioritized it.

Actually, didn't Max study enchanting as part of his ambition to achieve true transmutation? Like enchanting tools to make better tools and so on?

Johann might view learning enchantment as another way towards self-improvement--he's lacking the gold transmutation of his head, but other than that he's only lacking something like enchanted robes and other enchanted gear beyond his staff.
 
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Dwarkala, Daughter of Darkness New
  • Apocrypha
    • Dwarkala, Daughter of Darkness

    Father of darkness was sitting on his throne, within Bronze Bastion. Despite his success with tearing apart newly-renamed Dawi-Zharr's belief in their pathetic Ancestors, he wasn't content.

    He needed to make sure that his Bastion will not be torn apart by other beings in Warp, and his chosen servants will not suffer the similar fate from savage Greenskins and duplicious Skaven

    Bull-God grabbed soul that was once High Priestess of Valaya, sacrificed to Him by those that once were her kin. He began to remodel it, reshape it, and began to add concepts that he stole from other beings:
    flawless martial skills from Blood God, determination despite any kind of hardships from Plaguefather, tactical genius both in and outside of battlefield from Raven Lord and hatred of weakness and weaklings' from Dark Prince.

    When Infernal Lord finished his masterwork, newly-made being looked like one of his chosen servants, with body of bronze and plaits of smoke. He made a cruel smile when he didn't spot any imperfection nor any trace about his newly-made servant's previous identity

    "Rise, Dwarkala Akash-kwin Hashut." Father of Darkness boomed with his voice.

    "What is your will, my Lord?" his Creation responded, after kneeling before him

    "Your first task will be thus: Your creation required resources that I subjugated from other beings within this realm. Prove your worth by destroying their retalation forces." Father of Darkness decreed, either his Creation prove themselves to be worthy servant...or just prove that her creation was utter waste of time.

    Thankfully for Rin-kwin K'Daii, she was successful in her trial, so her second task was to spread knowledge how to make K'Daii Constructs amongst Bull-God's most worthy Sorcerer-Priests and Daemon-smiths.

    Father of Darkness was laughing cruelly on his throne, due to armies of Dawi-Zharr and K'Daii beginning their march of conquest. Era of Ancestors is over, there began Era of Hashut.

    --------+++++++----------

    Zharralid "Lexicon":
    - Dwarkala: Terrifying Inferno (I combined two words: Dwor (Fear) and Erkala (Inferno))
    - Akash-kwin Hashut: Daughter of Hashut
    - Rin-kwin K'Daii: Princess of K'Daii
     
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  • New
  • Apocrypha
    • SaltyWaffles said:
    Johann might view learning enchantment as another way towards self-improvement--he's lacking the gold transmutation of his head, but other than that he's only lacking something like enchanted robes and other enchanted gear beyond his staff.
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    Johann also has inflexible magic, so considering the fact he did not enchant his own shit and instead asked someone else to do it for him for piece of his gear that strikes me as a weird and insensitive ask.
     
    pucflek said:
    Johann also has inflexible magic, so considering the fact he did not enchant his own shit and instead asked someone else to do it for him for piece of his gear that strikes me as a weird and insensitive ask.
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    I think Boney may have said that Johann's Inflexible Magic trait would make him very good at a subset of Enchanting and rubbish at the rest.
    Natch said:
    I mean, that's "only" two different factions' superweapons sharing a single trickle of fuel. The Dawi have one war scheduled already and several optional hell-wars, while to our knowledge the Colleges haven't deployed their orb-altars in a while. Their standards for what merits orb deployment may change in the coming years, but right now if AV is being invested in military needs, dwarves are the better bet.
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    The difference is that the Dwarves use AV as fuel while the Colleges use it to make permanent Orbs. Any given AV the dwarves use is gone forever but any the Colleges use permanent adds to the number of super weapons they have.
     
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    Alratan said:
    I think Boney may have said that Johann's Inflexible Magic trait would make him very good at a subset of Enchanting and rubbish at the rest.
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    It would make sense but unless we really wanted to devote significant amount of time for attempting to enchant it still seems weird to ask him, specifically, to learn a discipline he will probably at least partially be entirely incapable at.
    Edit1:
    Boney said:
    It would restrict his choice of spells and would probably mean he's limited to enchanting metallic items, or at least ones with metal worked into them somehow. But he would likely be very good at what that leaves him.
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    Here is the WoG on that. So, good, but limited. So maybe not weird ask, but we need to justify making them learn it so... best prepare a wide variety of possible combinations and see whats left after he says what he can't even touch.

    Edit2:
    On topic of WoG, while searching for Johann enchanting, i also found this one about Melkoth. Hard to say, but it does seem to imply that he is probably more fragile than someone younger.
    Boney said:
    Melkoth was the Battle Magic specialist in the project, not the Enchanter. And he's upwards of a hundred years old, so even though he'd probably agree to go exploring in the Chaos Wastes, you probably shouldn't take him along.
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    pucflek said:
    Johann also has inflexible magic, so considering the fact he did not enchant his own shit and instead asked someone else to do it for him for piece of his gear that strikes me as a weird and insensitive ask.
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    I mean, if that's Mathilde's read on the situation, then fine, but what Johann got was a staff with not just an enchantment, but a powerful and flexible one beyond the bounds of a normal enchantment. The kind of thing that Mathilde couldn't make an Ulgu equivalent of herself, or at least not easily.
     
    SaltyWaffles said:
    Doesn't trying to create a liminal realm inside of a liminal realm just result in growing the existing liminal realm? We tested it--expending AV inside of a liminal realm just grows the liminal realm. Realistically, trying to create an entirely new one inside of an existing one deliberately seems both impractical in terms of purpose and dangerous in terms of results.

    On the other hand, we've seen Algard create his paperwork pocket dimensions inside of his office, which is inside of the Grey College liminal realm, so it presumably is more practical and safer than it seems on the surface, at least at the small scale.
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    Expending AV inside a liminal realm may or may not result in an expanded liminal realm, we don't know because haven't tested it and can't test it because trying to bring AV into a liminal realm destabilizes it in such a way that it does expand the liminal realm. In order to test if trying to create a liminal realm inside a liminal realm by compressing AV works or just expands the existing liminal realm is unknown because as previously mentioned it is impossible to get AV into a liminal realm by any known method, leaving the result of the hypothetical scenario a mystery.
     
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