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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Deathbybunnies said:
...I do wonder how expensive KAU's been for Belegar, relatively speaking. He's a dwarven king, it's certainly not going to be to the point of being a problem, but between the book purchases and the setting up/expanding of the library, it's probably a non-negligible expense on his balance sheet.
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It being a non-negligible expense was part of the reason we asked for the Boon to come in the form of a library, it would be a significant enough ask and important enough to Mathilde that Belegar could feel he had adequately repaid his debt to Mathilde but the immediate expense was small enough that it wouldn't take up a large amount of the Hold's budget so we wouldn't bankrupt him, in the long-term the cost will add up but not until the Karak has gotten back on its feet economically and is no longer just coasting on the wealth of the Grand Urbaz. Plus apparently much of the labor needed for the library is being provided for by Clans in lieu of their normal tax obligations so while that represents a cost in the form of lost revenue given he isn't taxing them normally and turning around and paying them right back to work on the library for money he's probably getting a better deal this way than by paying for their services directly.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
...I do wonder how expensive KAU's been for Belegar, relatively speaking. He's a dwarven king, it's certainly not going to be to the point of being a problem, but between the book purchases and the setting up/expanding of the library, it's probably a non-negligible expense on his balance sheet.
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The nice part is that the books aren't any less valuable for having been bought, and they are all working the karak gates, so from an accounting perspective all he has done is lost a bit of liquidity by turning coin into book.

If we are willing to use elven accounting practices and add intangibles to the ledger, the growing worth of being a Center of Knowledge in the eyes of the world is an entry, as well as the additional weight that adds to his crown with the imperial administration.
 
Guile said:
I was wondering, how does Karak Kadrin work?

I always think of them as only having one export (Slayers), but they also trade and I guess they must have miners and farmers and brewers and such supporting the (extremely metal) room that the Slayers hang out in where the pillars are all worn away from the weight of names of Slayers carved into their surfaces.
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Karak Kadrin was a 'normal' hold for at least four thousand years (between the start of the Golden Age and the incident that caused the King to swear the Slayer Oath) and still is underneath the Slayers. It's built atop very rich veins of ores and precious stones, and it dominates the only pass through the World's Edge Mountains from the Reik basin. They mine, they craft, they trade, they collect tolls from those that use their pass, and they do so in more security than most because they have the Slayers between them and the dangers of the world.

Rafin said:
I assume it's generally not a leisure/fiction library?

I actually have no idea what used to happen with obvious fiction and entertainment books in major pre-printing press libraries. I know there were fewer off them, but I don't know whether they were kept out of prestigious libraries or anything like that. I'm talking about the ones that weren't considered to have historical or mythological value.
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Generally, you have a section for literature and you don't have a section for fiction that isn't literature because why would you? The line between the two is, of course, wildly arbitrary. Also there being significant amounts of different pieces of fiction in circulation instead of it being largely limited to the major classics and very limited run luxuries for the super-rich, and what allows for that to change is a combination of advancing printing technology and growing literacy rates. The Eonir have the latter but not the former, and they also have a rich culture of oral storytelling to compete with it.

Andres said:
@Boney, is Ungrim most slayers' spiritual liege?
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No, firstly because Grimnir is very much filling that role and secondly because Slayers really don't want to follow his example of remaining consistently alive and having to spend the majority of their time not slaying things. There's various levels of respect and gratitude towards him as a major benefactor of the Slayer Cult, but he's no Rowboat.
 
Glau said:
The nice part is that the books aren't any less valuable for having been bought, and they are all working the karak gates, so from an accounting perspective all he has done is lost a bit of liquidity by turning coin into book.
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Technically from an accounting perspective all he's done is change one form of wealth into another form of wealth but that wealth now has zero liquidity, it can't be sold without betraying the principles the library was founded upon, to preserve all forms of knowledge for literal ages. The real reason it isn't a pure money sink isn't merely the reputation of being a center of knowledge, it's that those books can be read and the knowledge within them be put to use which is the reason pretty much all books are valuable, almost anyone can go in and gain the same skill bonus Mathilde gets from her access to the books for non-Divine and non-Magical topics and you can even get access to those too if you have the proper clearance. That's the library's true practical value.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
...I do wonder how expensive KAU's been for Belegar, relatively speaking. He's a dwarven king, it's certainly not going to be to the point of being a problem, but between the book purchases and the setting up/expanding of the library, it's probably a non-negligible expense on his balance sheet.
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The library itself would've been quite expensive, but the books would've been incredibly cheap. They cost what, 20k gc total? That's about 100 destriers. Even a human knightly order could afford that expense, much less the king of Karak Eight Peaks.
 
Yeah, the biggest ongoing expense of the library is probably hiring a bunch of craftsdwarves to dig out another wing every time the library hits capacity, whenever it eventually does. I suppose the We's wages are probably not inconsiderable given how much cattle it probably takes to feed that many giant spiders? Along with the wages of our small army of scribes.

... Huh. Are the original We about to become obscenely wealthy as the silk starts selling or are they still just trading a pound of silk for a couple pounds of meat/the gold equivalent?
 
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Andres said:
The library itself would've been quite expensive, but the books would've been incredibly cheap. They cost what, 20k gc total? That's about 100 destriers. Even a human knightly order could afford that expense, much less the king of Karak Eight Peaks.
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Even the construction of the library itself probably wasn't that expensive, it was made by carving out space inside a mountain and Dwarves are excellent at that and even thousands of books don't take up that much space when put in rows upon rows of bookshelf after bookshelf.
 
Boney said:
No, firstly because Grimnir is very much filling that role and secondly because Slayers really don't want to follow his example of remaining consistently alive and having to spend the majority of their time not slaying things. There's various levels of respect and gratitude towards him as a major benefactor of the Slayer Cult, but he's no Rowboat.
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Actually, for that matter- in the social where we found out what was up with Karak Hirn's succession, Ulthar tells Mathilde that respect for his father diminishes every day he doesn't travel to Karak Kadrin and take the Slayer Oath. But with the example of Karak Kadrin to go by, wouldn't that just lead to more Slayer Kings?
 
horngeek said:
Actually, for that matter- in the social where we found out what was up with Karak Hirn's succession, Ulthar tells Mathilde that respect for his father diminishes every day he doesn't travel to Karak Kadrin and take the Slayer Oath. But with the example of Karak Kadrin to go by, wouldn't that just lead to more Slayer Kings?
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Presumably he could abdicate in favor of his son first and not get the oaths tangled in that same way?
 
horngeek said:
Actually, for that matter- in the social where we found out what was up with Karak Hirn's succession, Ulthar tells Mathilde that respect for his father diminishes every day he doesn't travel to Karak Kadrin and take the Slayer Oath. But with the example of Karak Kadrin to go by, wouldn't that just lead to more Slayer Kings?
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Slayer Oaths by kings don't automatically pass on to their heirs, what's unusual about Kadrin is that it's become kind of a tradition and even then an unofficial one, the King dies their heir inherits the throne and while they aren't obligated to become a Slayer they consistently seem to find some reason to take the oath anyway and the cycle continues. If Ulthar's father becomes a Slayer Ulthar isn't obligated to become a Slayer but if for whatever reason he does it might start a tradition and Kadrin's situation will repeat in Hirn.
 
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NexusEye said:
Slayer Oaths by kings don't automatically pass on to their heirs, what's unusual about Kadrin is that it's become kind of a tradition and even then an unofficial one, the King dies their heir inherits the throne and while they aren't obligated to become a Slayer they consistently seem to find some reason to take the oath anyway and the cycle continues.
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From what I've been able to tell, the reason they inherit the Slayer Oath is simply because they haven't managed to fulfil it yet: Baragor died in his sleep. His descendents may have done the same.
 
Andres said:
From what I've been able to tell, the reason they inherit the Slayer Oath is simply because they haven't managed to fulfil it yet: Baragor died in his sleep. His descendents may have done the same.
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All of his descendants though? If the reason the Slayer King cycle continues is because no one has managed to fulfill it that means every single King since Baragor has failed to die in battle despite thousands of years of opportunity and the fact that dying in battle is a pretty common cause of death for Dwarven Kings since they often personally participate in them.
 
NexusEye said:
All of his descendants though? If the reason the Slayer King cycle continues is because no one has managed to fulfill it that means every single King since Baragor has failed to die in battle despite thousands of years of opportunity and the fact that dying in battle is a pretty common cause of death for Dwarven Kings since they often personally participate in them.
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I mean, that would be pretty shameful :V
 
NexusEye said:
Even the construction of the library itself probably wasn't that expensive, it was made by carving out space inside a mountain and Dwarves are excellent at that and even thousands of books don't take up that much space when put in rows upon rows of bookshelf after bookshelf.
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I'm sure there was some carving involved, but Kvinn-Wyr wasn't a solid mountain to begin with. It already was a Karag and Trolls have been living in it for a long time. There might have been more wall building than space carving involved.
 
Rafin said:
I'm sure there was some carving involved, but Kvinn-Wyr wasn't a solid mountain to begin with. It already was a Karag and Trolls have been living in it for a long time. There might have been more wall building than space carving involved.
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True, though even if that is the case while digging is what Dwarves do best building things is what they do second best, it still would've been pretty cheap.
 
horngeek said:
Actually, for that matter- in the social where we found out what was up with Karak Hirn's succession, Ulthar tells Mathilde that respect for his father diminishes every day he doesn't travel to Karak Kadrin and take the Slayer Oath. But with the example of Karak Kadrin to go by, wouldn't that just lead to more Slayer Kings?
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There are ways it could play out where it would, and ways it could play out where it wouldn't.
 
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Who is She?
  • Apocrypha
    • Who is She?

    This is the question Nuln burghers have been asking eachother all month. After the city-breaking disaster of The Collapse, we feared that our rightful position as manufactorum to the Empire's armies was lost forever, along with far too many lives. But in our most desperate hour, our oldest and greatest allies appeared at our gates, and they helped us rebuild, nay, improve upon our foundries and smithies!

    But at what cost? This dark mutter has passed many lips. After all, dwarven work is never free, but our city has been rebuilt and when asked of renumeration, all that was said was, "No cost, this makes us square with the Azrildrekked."

    Who is the Azrildrekked? Your intrepid reporter investigates.

    "Webber? A pleasant colleague indeed. I've read excerpts from her lectures on the waaagh but I much preferred her monograph on identifying and destroying vampiric magics." Lady Magister Elspeth von Draken.

    "Oh, didn't she write about that elf with the dragon that runs around selling his sword? I swear I've heard that name before..." Millie Hartford, professional gossip.

    "Is that what they are calling the Dammerlichter these days? She was the Hunter Count's [Abelhem von Hal, Sylvania, deceased- ed.] spymaster, did you know? Got her start taking down greedy merchants and running the Wurtbard watch. They say when they found him after his last charge, she was standing over 'em with the runefang buried up to her hips in busted skellies. Then she burned the necromancer at the stake, knocked down Castle Drakkenhof and got a dragon to burn all the vampires that tried to run! Ha! She couldn't let go of his death any more than we could... <Drunken sobbing>" A stirland army veteran, allegedly.

    "You got a carmine dragon here? Ha! Down there they got a tower that burns gribbles 'gets caught in it's shadow to ash from the inside out! And a dragon! End of the reconquest- there were, I shit you not, a MILLION greenskins they were standing off with cannonfire. Then this tower fires and the sky goes black and when it comes back? Boom. Every greenskin you could see was just... Dust. Grey wizards and runelords, man, they do not f[Ed.] around." Brand Brandon, EIC caravan guard.

    "She's not an umgi. [human- ed.] Not really. She's a dawi, [dwarf-ed] she's got to be, you know? Done too much for us for her not to be. There's a big proclamation from the mountain kings and everything." Rodrick Nolastname, Imperial Dwarf.

    "I hear she's connected to those upstarts in Blutdorf! Best friends with their little baron, even celebrated 2 gifts day with him!"
    "A ranaldian? I'd believe it of the baron, but her too?"
    "Well you didn't hear it from me, dear." Overhead in a tearoom.

    A confusing mess of rumor indeed! Some facts do emerge: Mathilde Webber, a/k/a the Dammerlichter, a/k/a Azrildrekked, a/k/a Lady Magister of the Grey, a/k/a Dame Webber. Born in Stirland. Raised by grey wizards from a young age. Appointed while a journeywoman to the surprisingly public position of Spymaster of Stirland. Knighted soon after for services rendered. Founding director of the East Imperial Company, which operates primarily in Stirland but it's seen as far south as Eightpeaks. Completed the initial conquest of Sylvania as war leader after the death of Count van Hal the elder. Headed south with the dwarves and helped reconquer Eightpeaks, hardly to be seen in the empire since, but is widely known in Altdorf as one of the Empress's closest companions.

    Beyond this, only what is surely exaggerated rumor and tall tales. She is friends with multiple dragons? She builds magical superweapons as a hobby? She went into the chaos wastes to pull out ANOTHER lost dwarfhold in an iron landship a hundred paces long? None of these can yet be confirmed, and they are some of the tamer ones.

    Nothing, nowhere, is there any connection to Nuln! No reason AT ALL for her to expend a literal fortune upon us! If anything she is a competitor to our factories through her connections to Blutdorf's firearm production. So why does this Hero of the Empire suddenly turn her eyes to us? Mere charity? Or is something deeper at play?

    Follow us next time for more!

    (Archivists note-Yarrik the Scribbler, writing in The Nuln Times pamphlets series. Commonly regarded as a prominent precursor of the modern newsprint industry.)
     
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  • Apocrypha
    • Glau said:
    Nothing, nowhere, is there any connection to Nuln! No reason AT ALL for her to expend a literal fortune upon us! If anything she is a competitor to our factories through her connections to Blutdorf's firearm production. So why does this Hero of the Empire suddenly turn her eyes to us? Mere charity? Or is something deeper at play?

    Follow us next time for more!

    (Archivists note-Yarrik the Scribbler, writing in The Nuln Times pamphlets series. Commonly regarded as a prominent precursor of the modern newsprint industry.)
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    Trust a reporter to never even think of asking a librarian.
     
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