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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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ReImagined said:
I'd be down for Arcane Mark control, but it's been consistently unpopular because it has minimal mechanical gain.
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If I remember correctly they were supposed to help with spell crafting, but we don't seem to quite be at that point yet, not with all our research projects still needing done.
King Arthur said:
However ... take a moment to imagine us having created Ulgu Tongs next turn? Having created Ulgu Tongs and Theurgy next turn?
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One would be like a puppy suddenly picking up chalk and writing calculus equations to the elves, per WoG. Two? I have no idea but it would be absolutely beautiful.
 
HanEmpire said:
@BoneyM could we use College Favors or Great Deed credits to get them to fund expeditions to places of interest? For example I'd like to see if a team of sufficiently skilled magisters and explorers can re-establish contact with Kraka Drak.
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Sending NPCs to do it for you sounds like a waste of a good adventure, and it'd either be disappointingly brief or it will severely detract from writings that actually feature Mathilde.

das_slash said:
Not really :(, just running on the general idea of being able to apply mental confusion to the universe itself (like the sky forgetting where the sun was supposed to be), I figure something like that has to be possible even if we lack the knowledge on how to do it.
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Algard is a Magister Patriarch that has dedicated his career to making Towers do that sort of thing. The same doesn't apply to Mathilde and mirrors.
 
Ulgu tongs is all about using Ulgu to mess with other magic. Considering Theurgy is using Ulgu to mess with divine magic they seem pretty synergistic.


On an unrelated note I'm looking forward to when we finally get to unleash a dragon on someone. I can just imagine Belegar looking serious and saying, "Release the Dragon."
 
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HanEmpire said:
@BoneyM could we use College Favors or Great Deed credits to get them to fund expeditions to places of interest? For example I'd like to see if a team of sufficiently skilled magisters and explorers can re-establish contact with Kraka Drak.
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It costs 5 favours to get a Magister to help us for 6 months on a specific project and they get none of the credit or the reward. (Sharing credit/reward gives a favour discount.) With 35 favour, we could wrangle up a Magister from each of the other colleges and lead them up into Norsca. We've got 32 favour.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Yea im highly interested in ulgu tongs with the coin on it.
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I'm also just curious how it'd work, period. Skyish on Dhar = necromancy, Ulgu on Dhar is Lore of Stealth ... would Ulgu on, say, Ghur let us use Ghur spells like normal, would it create a new third type of magic ... both?

Can we use Ulgu Tongs to grab High Magic? Humans can't use it because they can't have the mentality for multiple winds at once, but with the Tongs it seems like that's not an issue ... so is there anything stopping us from grabbing multiple winds at once?

BoneyM said:
Gazul and moving sun. And the existing Eye of Gazul can cover the West Gate already.
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If we have the Clear Skies button and the artificial Lights button I can live without the sun. It's not the same, but it's still nifty.

Lacking the Eye of Gazul is disappointing ... but I also imagine a straight up Burning Shadows Tower might be less exhausting on us, so that might even out, and we might be able to find another way to strengthen it a little.

As for the West Gate thing .... that Waagh had so many chances to get out of being hit by the full force of Death Mountain that it wouldn't have had if Death Mountain was on Yar. Two mountains on opposite sides means we are more likely to be able to hit them on the way to the Gate, and, if we wait for them to start getting in, we can hit them from both sides at once so the Citadel won't act as a blocker.

I'm open to other superweapons, I just think that people are dismissing the benefit to a second Burning Shadows Mountain, even a lesser one, solely because they already have one and not necessarily because they have a better idea in mind.
 
@BoneyM

Are there any other examples of boundary conditions where Ulgu is thought to inhabit (Fogs vs clouds) for which other winds might also inhabit the same physical thing?

King Arthur said:
I'm also just curious how it'd work, period. Skyish on Dhar = necromancy, Ulgu on Dhar is Lore of Stealth ... would Ulgu on, say, Ghur let us use Ghur spells like normal, would it create a new third type of magic ... both?

Can we use Ulgu Tongs to grab High Magic? Humans can't use it because they can't have the mentality for multiple winds at once, but with the Tongs it seems like that's not an issue ... so is there anything stopping us from grabbing multiple winds at once?
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Well, it depends a lot on the possibilities. We know the winds of magic are capable of coexisting with out turning into dhar, we know the High elves use multiple winds to cast spells with out making dhar. It follows from that fact that boundary conditions where winds can touch with out making dhar exist to try and see if we can have human directed Ulgu touch other winds in those boundary conditions with out making dhar.

I think there may be extra mileage in looking to things like Clouds that can also be considered Fog to experiment with this idea, and thanks to the fact we're on some pretty tall mountains we have the perfect environment to test this. Once you have the ability to direct a wind of magic to touch another wind of magic with out it mixing into dhar, the next step is to investigate shaping the other magic wind actively with out getting dhar out of it.

I think once we're at the point of using Ulgu to shape another wind with out casting we're going to need to read in another magister so that we can get their insights into casting with that wind to see if we can do so a step removed with Tongs, but that's pretty hypothetical.
 
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Which wind do you think we should experiment on once we get tongs? I mean clearly not Hysh since it is on the opposite end of the wheel so perhaps one of the winds that is in the neighborhood so either Amethyst or Azyr would be good if I am not mistaken.

Altough how they would turn out I have no clue.
 
BoneyM said:
Not really. The closest is that daylight is of Hysh, but at dawn and dusk Ulgu briefly dominates.
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Hmm.

So the best case scenario is that we potentially have Ghyran, Ulgu and Azyr in a fog,cloud due to the water content.

Tasoli said:
Which wind do you think we should experiment on once we get tongs? I mean clearly not Hysh since it is on the opposite end of the wheel so perhaps one of the winds that is in the neighborhood so either Amethyst or Azyr would be good if I am not mistaken.

Altough how they would turn out I have no clue.
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Well I'm hopeful the first step would be Mathilde using her windsight to study how Ulgu, Azyr and Ghyran interact in a cloud fog bank.

I think our best bet is likely to be Ghyran or Azyr for a first wind to interact with as they are the winds that interacts with Ulgu the most naturally, and therefore we have the most information we can gather..
 
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Tasoli said:
Which wind do you think we should experiment on once we get tongs? I mean clearly not Hysh since it is on the opposite end of the wheel so perhaps one of the winds that is in the neighborhood so either Amethyst or Azyr would be good if I am not mistaken.

Altough how they would turn out I have no clue.
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I imagine that Shyish would probably be best to start with, since we probably know a fair chunk about it from the Liber Mortis.
 
Tasoli said:
Which wind do you think we should experiment on once we get tongs? I mean clearly not Hysh since it is on the opposite end of the wheel so perhaps one of the winds that is in the neighborhood so either Amethyst or Azyr would be good if I am not mistaken.

Altough how they would turn out I have no clue.
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Ulgu and hysh wouldn't necessarily interfere with each other just because they're on opposite sides of the wheel. Hell, they can be pretty strong together. The biggest example is in Age of Sigmar, where Ulgu and Hysh together imprison Slaanesh.
 
Glau said:
The shadowhorse knights have been a personal goal of mine for a while, ever since trying to write Soizic's feelings on horses. Also, tying back to the really old idea for a group of knights formed to seek out wizarding candidates, and deliver them safely to the colleges. I thought it would be really cool to cement the dammerlichter's reputation. (The dwarves know her as Azrildrekked, the wizards with clearance as Magister Grey or Magister Webber, the heir to the throne knows her as Godmother, but to the hinterlands of the empire (ie, Stirland and Sylvania) she is still the Dammerlichter.)

But these days, it would be more a unit of far-ranging heavy cavalry, knights built to reach and break raids on caravans that the gyrocopter scouts report. Maybe a hundred bridles, enchanted with shadowhorse and capable of going from dawn to dusk, perhaps keyed off if one master bridle that distributed the spell to all the others. Ie, a unit item rather than a hundred individual-use items. Maybe set them up so they'd grow into the individual use items over tine as use and repetition ground the spell into them, until they could trigger on their own?

That would set it up nicely to transition from a purely K8P unit to a legacy order of knights scouring the border princedoms for any magically talented young, bringing them back to the U-K8P branch of the Imperial Magic Colleges. Secure Mathilde's legacy by giving others a chance to be saved as she was was by the watchman, give K8P a source of magical talent to support their new doctrines and culture, give a purpose to a branch college way out here in the boonies: to scoop up and utilize for the empire's benefit all the border princedom's potential mages.

And it all starts from giving Soizic and 99 of her best magical horses.

Heck, that sort of 'outfit a unit with gear' is the province of runelords, usually, so the dwarves might even be impressed.
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Being Knights I pictured the items being gromril spurs, and I pictured a much smaller order. Perhaps eight or so. It would be kinda fun to have each one take on a different title of Matty's and assume that role in the order.
 
Chlof said:
If. If we get tongs.
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Well if we're taking the Tongs research action, to actually create it would require experimenting that means choosing the wind we think is the most likely to actually work and that we have the best data set to work from.

I'm also wondering if Hysh might be the easiest wind to work with because of the fact that it's on the opposite end of the spectrum, it may well be that Hysh is the least aligned and most repulsed by Ulgu and therefore the easiest to interact with, with out creating dhar.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Well if we're taking the Tongs research action, to actually create it would require experimenting that means choosing the wind we think is the most likely to actually work and that we have the best data set to work from.

I'm also wondering if Hysh might be the easiest wind to work with because of the fact that it's on the opposite end of the spectrum, it may well be that Hysh is the least aligned and most repulsed by Ulgu and therefore the easiest to interact with, with out creating dhar.
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Maybe we can try both Hysh and Shyish? That might take two actions though...
 
Andres110 said:
I really dislike the elfcation for reasons just like this. So many plans to make it a leviathan AP and resource sink for when we go there, a lot of it for stuff that's useless everywhere else like this spotlight-stealing pegasus. That so much of our everything is intended to be funnelled into this one thing at the expense of so much is aggravating.
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Me, I dislike the elfcation because I don't particularly like drawn out combat sequences anyway. I much prefer the research and politics and interpersonal stuff
 
Slamu said:
I get that you don't want to spend the favor on things that don't directly benefit Mathilde or her immediate obligtions, but if not us, then who else would be sufficiently well-placed to put this forward that doesn't have a hundred more pressing obligations on their plate?
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I want other people in the Empire incentivised to earn Dwarf Favour to advance their own professional goals and responsibilities, not to be able to assume that Mathilde will just pick up their tab so not have to bother.

For example, on the Towers of Calamity idea, Belegar has 'spent' several dozen units of favour that the Colleges could call in to get their own versions built if they wanted. They clearly don't, or they have higher priorities.

If a senior Imperial Engineer wants help with steam tanks, I want them to use their influence to take a battery of cannon to the defence of a dwarfhold or on an expedition to reclaim one and earn it the honest way. Not have it appear deus ex Mathilde.
 
Alratan said:
For example, on the Towers of Calamity idea, Belegar has 'spent' several dozen units of favour that the Colleges could call in to get their own versions built if they wanted. They clearly don't, or they have higher priorities.
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You know, I wonder what that got spent on? Even if they transferred the favor to someone else I'm still curious what it ended up doing.
 
Ekzentric Lohner said:
... That's actually a good reason to not start with Shyish. We couldn't write a paper on that interaction or people might develop certain suspicions we'd rather they didn't on account of them being accurate.
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We've shown ourselves perfectly capable of writing papers while obfuscating where, exactly, our inspiration came from, and I would honestly expect people to point at the Lore of Stealth—something we have also demonstrably had contact with—rather than Necromancy. Or if nothing else, assume we saw a common thread between Necromancy and Lore of Stealth, and decided to try a clean version. The fact that we happened to use the two Winds we know are at least somewhat able to play nice with others without immediate degradation actually helps.
Or, you know, if we do it at the same time as Hysh, we can use the excuse of testing both the most closely related and most distantly related Winds to Ulgu for the purpose of setting extreme examples before working our way inwards.
 
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BoneyM said:
No. Gyrocopters are made holistically.
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How much gold/favor to repair our gyrocopter after the engine has "mysteriously" gone missing? :p
BoneyM said:
Yes, that sounds reasonable.
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What would a Dwarven book about engineering by non-engineers even be like? Notes from Holds that had to make due after gobbos swallowed their entire engineering guild? Traditionalists doing a piece by piece dissertation about how exactly each particular piece of equipment is an affront to Dwarfhood?
 
@BoneyM
1. If we wanted to concentrate on enhancing pure damage of our marksdwarf pistol as much as possible, should we look at enchantment or at dwarf runes?
2. Would enchanting our marksdwarf pistol introduce any range limitations, I.E. spell running out of power with distance?
3. Could we add a silencer enchanted with Illusion to a runed pistol to suppress its sound/muzzle flash?
 
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