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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Carcer said:
Mathilde + Pegasus = Valkyrie.
"And it is said in legends that at that moment each skaven and green skin felt a shiver down its spine.



(if someone could answer the question of if we could pay the dwarves to rediscover the engineering secrets that humanity has lost)
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Which ones? They can help us find a way to create more Steam Tanks (although one of the steps will be 'buy working components from the proper engineering guilds'), but there aren't any others that humans didn't get from them in the first place.

Jyn Ryvia said:
but that's just not as interesting as flying sword duals.

also, horse artillery was a thing. just need to enchant a carriage with a flout spell...
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I can understand having a preference for one thing over another, but I don't think that just saying that having machine guns isn't cool is a very good argument. It doesn't really feel like it adds anything to the conversation, because it comes down to personal preference and imagination.

Like, imagine the actual practicalities of having a sword duel. Your mounts with wingspans the size of boats are just going to be flying arms-length from one another? You're actually going to have any sort of positioning during that, instead of annoyingly jostling one another while trying not to fall out of the sky?

Maybe if we wielded polearms like a sensible person on a mount, but Branalhune is a greatsword. Sword fights in the sky just don't work.
 
I think my main problem is that I'm just kind of sick of SV's default ' tech solves all problems!' rote in quests.

we are not an engineer, We are a Wizard. Mathy has never shown in story interest in combining magic and tech before (thats Johnnas thing.) but now we want to amke a magic-tech copper...

Mathy has always been a 'magic-magic is the solution' girl, from the eye, to AV, the Dragon Altar. etc etc.

It just feels like a weird mental leap for the character.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
I think my main problem is that I'm just kind of sick of SV's default ' tech solves all problems!' rote in quests.

we are not an engineer, We are a Wizard. Mathy has never shown in story interest in combining magic and tech before (thats Johnnas thing.) but now we want to amke a magic-tech copper...

Mathy has always been a 'magic-magic is the solution' girl, from the eye, to AV, the Dragon Altar. etc etc.

It just feels like a weird mental leap for the character.
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Mathilde uses gyrocopters all the time, she's got a pair of repeater pistols, and two of her wizard associates are engineers, with one of them even getting her help testing her combination of engineering and magic. Mathilde's very comfortable with using engineering to solve her problems and combining magic with engineering is far from a novel concept for her.

EDIT: Also, the dwarves Mathilde interacts with a lot combine the two all the time as well in the form of war machine runes.

EDIT2: Mathilde's shown interest in Adela's experiments but never in being a magic purist.

EDIT3: She's also helped Johann study the ratling gun.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
I think my main problem is that I'm just kind of sick of SV's default ' tech solves all problems!' rote in quests.

we are not an engineer, We are a Wizard. Mathy has never shown in story interest in combining magic and tech before (thats Johnnas thing.) but now we want a magic-tech copper...

Mathy has always been a 'magic-magic is the solution' girl, from the eye, to AV, the Dragon Altar. etc etc.

It just feels like a weird mental leap for the character.
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I mean, I can understand that sentiment in settings like Naruto, where nobody uses guns and they're not really a setting element, but people keep trying to shoehorn them in anyways. Guns don't really do anything ninjas don't already do, and they're just not useful in the kinds of situations ninjas find themselves in, so adding them anyways is entirely egregious. But that doesn't really, pardon the pun, fly in these circumstances, because we already fly around in a Gyrocopter. We've been doing so for years.

That's not us shoehorning in technology, because it's technology we're already always around. Karak Eight Peaks has its own air force of these things. That's better technology than they had in World War One. And while you might reasonably believe that we love magic for magic's sake, I don't think that the specific examples you mentioned really... had anything that could prove that one way or another? Technology doesn't have anything for dealing with gigantic archmage dragons who can move at the speed of light. Technology can't turn the shadow of an entire mountain into acid using Zhuf logic. Mathilde chose the coolest options, which magic just so happened to enable. In this case, a pony in the sky is neat, but a flying platform with machine guns is cooler.
 
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Andres110 said:
as well as take more of the wizard's loot with you after you kill them and loot their College of Necromancy for all it's worth.
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If we had a bigger hold to take more stuff with us, we would have been unable to for some other reason. That was explicitly a game mechanic, not a narrative one, and it will be in the future too. If we somehow corner Boney so they are unable to come up with a narrative reason for us to have to make a choice, they'll just make it a roll to pick what's actually there - like they did when raiding Karag Yar during the final battle - and remove the choice entirely.
 
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What are the odds of Karaz Ankor adopting the idea of Steam Tanks for their armies? It'd be a potent force against greenskins in open land battles, helping break enemy formations. Or is this something too radical for Gotri?
 
Deathbybunnies said:
If we had a bigger hold to take more stuff with us, we would have been unable to for some other reason. That was explicitly a game mechanic, not a narrative one, and it will be in the future too.
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If we invest resources into taking more loot we may or may not be able to take more choices, but narratively the choices we do make will probably be cooler in some way in order to affirm (what's a synonym for not making us feel bad?) our decision to do so (they'll be bigger or something, certainly, at least), so I don't feel that this really refutes the argument.
 
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HanEmpire said:
What are the odds of Karaz Ankor adopting the idea of Steam Tanks for their armies? It'd be a potent force against greenskins in open land battles, helping break enemy formations. Or is this something too radical for Gotri?
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I remember BoneyM saying they're not very useful to dwarves. Something about not being good underground.
 
HanEmpire said:
What are the odds of Karaz Ankor adopting the idea of Steam Tanks for their armies? It'd be a potent force against greenskins in open land battles, helping break enemy formations. Or is this something too radical for Gotri?
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IIRC, the main issue is that dwarfs mostly do tunnel and mountain fighting, which the steam tank is ill suited for.
 
chocolote12 said:
If we invest resources into taking more loot we may or may not be able to take more choices, but narratively the choices we do make will probably be cooler in some way in order to affirm (what's a synonym for not making us feel bad?) our decision to do so (they'll be bigger or something, certainly, at least), so I don't feel that this really refutes the argument.
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I don't think anything is "direct" enough to qualify. But sure, let's check. @BoneyM if we buy ourselves a gyrocarriage with the explicit intent of being able to fit more loot on it, will we actually get more loot, or is your system for obtaining loot a game mechanic which falls under "don't poke too hard" as opposed to a narrative one?
 
Weighing in on the current bout of thread madness: I think that there is no need to get Mathilde a flying conveyance. Using K8P's "motor pool" has worked fine so far. We do not actually need our very own aerial assault vessel, especially one that will require action investments to enhance and learn to use. I feel that those actions could be much more profitably invested in other forms of self-improvement that we have thus far not had time for; dividing our efforts still further to gain an asset of great expense and questionable utility just doesn't seem reasonable to me.

My current intent for the Favour that appears to be burning a hole in our pocket is that we should wait a turn to see what the conversion rate of AV to Runesmith Favour is and then see about building those rune-enhanced practice rooms for the Colleges. This helps Order by increasing the magical strength of the Empire; this helps the Colleges by helping more wizards survive to Magisterhood or Battle Wizard status; this helps Mathilde by giving her a safer place to learn more Battle Magic if she ever wants, as well as super bolstering her case for Lord Magister status.

Also, there are eight Colleges and eight Peaks, meaning each new training room can be named after a different mountain of K8P, and that pleases me on an aesthetic level.

EDIT: Because I was bored, here is a proposed mapping of peak -> College:
Karag Zilfin, Windswept Mountain: Azyr
Karag Yar, Sunset Mountain: Shyish
Karag Mhonar, Shadow Mountain: Ulgu
Karagril, Silverhorn: Ghur
Karag Lhune, Crescent Mountain: Chamon
Karag Rhyn, Mount Redstone: Aqshy
Karag Nar, Sunrise Mountain: Ghyran
Kvinn-Wyr, White Lady: Hysh
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
I don't think anything is "direct" enough to qualify. But sure, let's check. @BoneyM if we buy ourselves a gyrocarriage with the explicit intent of being able to fit more loot on it, will we actually get more loot, or is your system for obtaining loot a game mechanic which falls under "don't poke too hard" as opposed to a narrative one?
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If you spend resources on extra carrying capacity, then extra carrying capacity will be useful when warranted. It's the part where a past situation that was explicitly a game mechanic is used as an argument for why it'd be useful that's a bit off.

Andres110 said:
@BoneyM, for improving a gyrocarriage's engine, is chamon (via Stoke the Forge) or aqshy better?
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Zero experiments have been performed on the matter. Try it and find out.
 
picklepikkl said:
We do not actually need our very own aerial assault vessel, especially one that will require action investments to enhance and learn to use.
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The extra action investment to magically enhance it is not a downside. Windherder is a crap trait in large part because we're never going to use it, and giving the gyrocarriage multi-wind enchantments finally lets us write that paper on multi-wind enchantments. Furthermore, it will cost no AP to learn to use because we don't need to learn to use it; one of Karak Eight Peaks' pilots can fly it for us, or else we can pay for an undumgi to learn how to fly and have them fly it around.

BoneyM said:
Zero experiments have been performed on the matter. Try it and find out.
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@BoneyM can we have Adela and Maximilian try it and find out on a gyrocarriage engine with nothing else attached to it?
 
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I guess we could put Enchant Item on the gyrocopter instead. No chance of something going wrong there but still makes it a multi-wind enchantment.
 
Andres110 said:
I guess we could put Enchant Item on the gyrocopter instead. No chance of something going wrong there but still makes it a multi-wind enchantment.
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Enchant Object is gold, so if we try to integrate other Gold enchantments later they probably won't be as likely to blow up. Then we can hang the material for the stealth enchantments on the outside, to avoid overlaps.
 
BoneyM said:
Zero experiments have been performed on the matter. Try it and find out.
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actually, on the case of 'magic-tech' in general.

does Mathy actually have the knowledge on the 'engineering' side of project to actually do some of the things that were talked about?

like, I won't ask for Johnna or Adela, they both very particularly have the Mechanic trait or gold order tricks on top of their magic ones.

there is a legitimate chance that we don't know enough to mix magic and tech without them helping.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
actually, on the case of 'magic-tech' in general.

does Mathy actually have the knowledge on the 'engineering' side of project to actually do some of the things that were talked about?

like, I won't ask for Johnna or Adela, they both very particularly have the Mechanic trait or gold order spells on top of their magic ones.

there is a legitimate chance that we don't know enough to mix magic and tech without them helping.
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How hard can it be? Engineering is like enchanting except there's no magic so it's even easier, right?
 
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