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But a staff is a typical wizard thing that doesn't make us special at all. Also, we might be able to put a Rune on that, unless it would mess with the magic in it already.
It's a typical wizard thing because it gives +1 magic, which is incredibly good for any single piece of equipment.

@BoneyM, also, thoughts on Shadow Knives; during our training we were having trouble with the Shadow Knives spell because they all came out looking like swords instead of knives. Was this an issue because they were harder to throw, or because it meant the spell wasn't stable or something and if we tried to use them for anything they'd cause us to mess up somehow? Also, about how long do our knives last when we hold onto them instead of throwing them? Would it be feasible to make a single really big shadow knife like we were doing to take advantage of our mastery, or could we come up with a variant on the spell to do this, using our Mastery as a creation-trait?
 
[] Parlay with the dragon.

I'm against any negotiation with the Skaven purely by if the dragon notices then we'll be an ulgu popsicle.
Edit: Darn, cut it short.
 
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Aside from the 'let's meet with our Skaven 'friend'' argument, there's more to Parleying with Eshin.

The one thing that people seem to throw around with regards to trying to parley with the Skaven seems 'they are untrustworthy' and to that, I think we need to take a step back and remember that nothing is a trap option and from a writing perspective, 'stereotypes are stereotypes'. The existence of Mathilde, Johann, Soizic, and even Alkharad (yes, that's his real name) is proof enough. As such, I believe that a parley and something akin to a temporary mutual agreement to be absolutely in the cards. Grey game knows game.

Keeping in mind that I am arguing against the tide of people trying to Parley with the Dragon, what can we expect from the Eshin, strategically speaking?
  1. They cannot contest any claim on Karak Eight Peaks, their forces — already locked to the unusual numerically inferior Elites — are too depleted.
  2. They have four Hero Units on the field and maybe one or two more Rare Units hidden, as per Mathilde's intuition.
  3. They are here for the complete destruction of Traitor-Clan Mors.
Summary, Eshin will cut losses once they have done the last clause. Any deal we're making with Eshin hinges on that last point. But first, it needs to be specified that the only one who could make the deal would be Mathilde the Grey Magister. Mathilde the Thane of Karak Eight Peaks would utterly be unable to do such a thing. So what the Magister bring for the Eshin?
  1. The Fifth Hero Unit and wildcard in taking out Sleek and his battalion-sized bodyguards. Sleek can and will expect Eshin Shenanigans, but Mhornokrul Shenanigans... not really.
  2. "Convincing" Mathilde the Thane to have Eshin leave Karak Eight Peaks with no further conflict.
Two things, but very powerful cards on the table. What can Eshin do to the Magister then?
  1. Leave Karak Eight Peaks with no further hostility. This is big. Four Hero Units is not to scoff at and while we can leave them against the Dragon and Sleek... that's a chance I'd rather not take since apparently mutual rout + disorganized re-engagement + surprise Hysh Dragon didn't get them.
  2. Loot. Duh. AP Hell, yes. But we can always foist the loot off to the Colleges if need be.
  3. The Most Unprecedented Thing. Diplomacy. The Skaven Expert in the whole of the Empire and perhaps Old World will have done literally everything that could be done with regards to Skaven, from the dissection of knowledge of the major clans to the deciphering of written Queekish and even to the length of parleying to not just any Skaven Clan, but the one which is most similar to the Grey College. This is the sort of things that gets one fast-tracked for Lord Magister position, in case our performance hadn't already.
So with the good things brought to the table out of the way, what are the bad things that Eshin can beat us down with? Actually, there's only a bad thing. Well, Bad ThingTM​
  • Mountain Vietnam. There's a reason why Eshin is the worst possible faction — even counting the Dragon in my opinion — that we could face. Mathilde's senior in Intrigue, at max. four Hero Units, and the wide playing area of Karak Eight Peaks? That's a nightmare scenario beyond Hysh Dragon that can't be solved with 'and then two of Karaz Ankor's most powerful Runelords atop their Anvils of Doom smote it with the power of the Ancestor Gods'.
And inversely, what can Mathilde — in all her Aspects — do to the Eshin in a negative way?
  1. The Loremaster can negotiate with the Hysh Dragon and say, "I hate Skaven. You hate Skaven too right? Care for some jolly cooperation with the freshest force in Eight Peaks?" And (Hysh Dragon + Dwarves) + Mors + Eshin = Four and so Four will Feed.
  2. The Grey Magister can already [] Attack Clan Eshin right now. It would be a challenge to be sure, but she's a fresh Hero while the Eshin Hero Units have been fighting for the past four hours.
  3. The Thane can simply march her troops — which again, is the freshest fighting force in Eight Peaks — towards Karag Yar once everything blows over but before Eshin can make a getaway. What remains of Clan Eshin can make it absolutely hurt for the attackers but it's a number's game on exhausted Hero Units and would eliminate a sizeable chunk of Eshin assets Mallus-wide.
Summary as a whole? Eshin will have zero choice but to go along until they leave...or they court destruction. Mathilde possesses the biggest carrot and stick in the whole Battle Royale right now. We can absolutely force Eshin's hand to honour the treaty, if the Skaven are so backstabby as to be memetic.

I hope that's a good enough pitch for you, pickle, and to anyone else reading.
I think the biggest problem with your argument is that it relies on occ knowledge about 'no trap options'.

IC Mathy only has history and a bias opinion of the one in the dungeon.

As far as Mathy knows all available information says 'don't trust Eshin, seriously, don't.'
 
@BoneyM, also, thoughts on Shadow Knives; during our training we were having trouble with the Shadow Knives spell because they all came out looking like swords instead of knives. Was this an issue because they were harder to throw, or because it meant the spell wasn't stable or something and if we tried to use them for anything they'd cause us to mess up somehow? Also, about how long do our knives last when we hold onto them instead of throwing them? Would it be feasible to make a single really big shadow knife like we were doing to take advantage of our mastery, or could we come up with a variant on the spell to do this, using our Mastery as a creation-trait?

Swords possess many fine qualities, but aerodynamic they ain't. The knives last as long as Mathilde holds and sustains them. And a theoretical shadowsword would not be able to do anything that Branulhune or a shadowknife couldn't do better.

Formalizing a mastery into a new spell is sometimes possible but always unreliable and tricky.
 
Something that occurred to me: this is an ice dragon. It uses Hysh. We know that in order to use a Wind, you have to adopt the mindset of that Wind. What is Hysh's mindset? Logical, enlightened, steady, and completely fucking insufferable.

My point is that I don't think this lends itself to "hours-long berserker rage of hot fury." If it were an Aqshy-wielder, sure. But I don't think we need to fear it lashing out in a wave of emotion per se. It might still be a complete fucking jerk, obviously, but my subjective likelihood of "it is in a murderous rampage because it is blinded by anger" has dropped way, way, down.
I am not saying that he is in a berserker rage, but even the most logical individual can be very pissed off, and when anyone (even the most logical individualds) is pissed off they tend to make more rash decisions than when they are are calmed...
 
I am not saying that he is in a berserker rage, but even the most logical individual can be very pissed off, and when anyone (even the most logical individualds) is pissed off they tend to make more rash decisions than when they are are calmed...
Sure, but it's been hours. My point is that if any sort of dragon is going to regain its emotional equilibrium and be logical about things, it's a Hysh-wielder (or a Chamon-wielder, I guess).

Anyway, moratorium's up.
[X] Parlay with the dragon.
This may be our best chance to talk to it. We should take it so that we can establish our good intentions -- a peaceful first contact where we can bond over a common enemy just seems like the best possible opportunity here.

[X] Parlay with Clan Eshin.
Because god damn it I miss our Eshin friend.
 
Two things, but very powerful cards on the table. What can Eshin do to the Magister then?

The Most Unprecedented Thing. Diplomacy. The Skaven Expert in the whole of the Empire and perhaps Old World will have done literally everything that could be done with regards to Skaven, from the dissection of knowledge of the major clans to the deciphering of written Queekish and even to the length of parleying to not just any Skaven Clan, but the one which is most similar to the Grey College. This is the sort of things that gets one fast-tracked for Lord Magister position, in case our performance hadn't already.
I do not think that this is actually a good thing. "Negotiating with the enemies of man" is not the sort of thing that gets you fast-tracked for Lord Magister. I do not want to make a deal with a Skaven faction. Not because they are untrustworthy, but because... it's like making a deal with a host of Chaos Norscans or Chaos Dwarfs. Or Dark Elves. It is, as a general thing, not something I'd ever want to do unless we're totally desperate. And right now? We're not. Clan Eshin and Mors are the ones on the backfoot here and facing extermination.

Just... Think about that for a second? You are proposing diplomacy with an enemy of all man and Dwarfs. Just... ... I might be having trouble expressing myself here, and talking eloquently enough. Just, the little voice in somebody's head that speaks to norms and expectations of a society? It's crying out a little bit right now. =/

EDIT: Okay, I experienced that "hitting enter makes the post, post" phenomena. Not sure how/why.
Yeah, but... dwarves and Skaven both make better stuff. Dwarves with access to Skaven knowledge? I want to see what comes out of that.
Either way, we've been missing a giant weapon strapped across our back for a while now. It just doesn't feel right otherwise.
I want to give the Skaven engineering stuff to the Dwarfs so they know what the Skaven are capable of and search it for weaknesses and stuff. Giving them a catalogue of Skaven stuff so that they know what they are facing.

I 100% do not want to have the Dwarfs start using reverse-engineered Skaven tech.

If we think tensions with the Karaz Ankor are bad now, and if Gotri annoys the Engineering Guilds of Karaz Ankor... how much worse would things be if we tried to convince him to reverse-engineer Skaven tech, too?

EDIT: Ah, vote time?

[X] Parlay with the dragon.
[X] Loot Clan Eshin (again)

[] Attack Clan Eshin.

Not sure which of these I'd want more. Mmmmaybe also an "Attack Clan Eshin" option instead? Since if we are very good at it, if we can bump off the stealth heroes... Then we'd have less to worry about in K8P. And the Dragon, or the Dwarfs Throngs, can clear out all the conventional Skaven troops.
 
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Talking with the skaven while also trying to talk with the dragon could backfire, given the dragons current preoccupations.

[X] Parlay with the dragon.
 
And a theoretical shadowsword would not be able to do anything that Branulhune or a shadowknife couldn't do better.
Well, it sounds like the start of a way to pass on a hypothetical teleporting sword style. 'Just' rework the spell until the wizard can basically flicker whether or not they're holding one, and I think it would have most of the properties of wielding Branulhune; ignoring most armor and doing silly lightsaber tricks is what would make the style unique, the anti-magic debuff is more of a personal bonus.

[X] Parlay with the dragon.
 
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