Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
If people are interested in a very practical windherder enchantment, another poster suggested (I forget who, sorry) combining eyes of truth with Pall of Darkness as an incredibly OP combo, not only useful for us, but also as something that an ally could really use.

Why though when we can try to see through it with our own magical senses?

[ ] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.

Like unless were bringing an ally with us on stealth missions I don't see reason to use up an enchantment slot.

If we ever take an apprentice or some other peeps go with us while on stealth sure but i just don't see the partibility of said item when we can just try to see through it with raw sense of magic
 
Can I just say how impressive it is that you already know the full extent of what Windherder is capable of despite us never actually investigating its capabilities?

The big problem with Windherder is not that it has no uses... But it is extremely unlikely that we ever use it seriously because it would take several actions to figure it out what we can do with it... And most of the thread will think: "Why I am going to use our extremely valuable AP just to determine what we can do with a Trait, when we could just that AP, to research AV, create new cpells, learn battlemagic, binding apparitions, improve our proficiency with Brangulde, control our Arcane Marks, etc. All of which will grant us immediate and tangible benefits?"

The only way in which I can see Mthilde making use of Windherder is by choosing "Magic Engineering" as our job for Belegar, that way we will be using our "Job" actions to to research Windherder.
 
Why though when we can try to see through it with our own magical senses?



Like unless were bringing an ally with us on stealth missions I don't see reason to use up an enchantment slot.

If we ever take an apprentice or some other peeps go with us while on stealth sure but i just don't see the partibility of said item when we can just try to see through it with raw sense of magic
Firstly: "try to" and "succeed in" are two very different things. We don't know that it can be done with windsight at all - it's quite probable the result would just be us learning more about exactly how Pall of Darkness blocks windsight - which would still be useful.

Secondly: We can make magic items for other people. Not everything Mathilde makes has to be used by Mathilde, or even by someone who's with Mathilde at the time. Sometimes we can make something and give it to an ally (like Johann) who will become massively more effective for having it.

Huh, would Eyes of Truth let Johann see? Or would it cause Dhar in his eyeballs from the remnants of the gilding?
 
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Just like we never spoke to Seija, Esbern, Johann, Max and Pan again

Still, maybe Kohler will be like Preceptor Joerg, who despite us never initiating a social action was like 'take a hundred of my best men into the Chaos Wastes because Mathilde says a dwarf wants to find a thing? Bitchin, how we do'

It's almost like you don't have to pat someone's head to get them to work with you later so long as you have common interests (like ruining Chaos' day). :V
 
I get that, i do, but this is our last chance to do the exploring, while we still have 2 more weeks to go for socializing, i think its keeping with the spirit of the expedition that we do the wizard stuff closer to the wastes, and the social stuff once we are closer to safer lands.
Don't worry, we can explore more when we make that second trip to Dum to figure out what's going on there

Right

We're doing that, right guys
I guess, let me ask a question.

With the benefit of hindsight is anyone else willing to admit that spending a social action on Cyrston von Danling was a bad decision and that we could have used that action slot more productively doubling down on Borek or Ljiljana?

I don't usually like to relitigate past votes, but this seems like a very similar situation and we should use past results as a guide to the future. There was a lot of concern that Cyrston was "sus" for some reason. Do you feel the social action cleared him of suspicion or made it less likely he would fall to chaos or served any other purpose other than letting BoneyM write a scene with this character? (Which don't get me wrong, the writing was good as usual, but it would have been just as good on some other scene.)
Unfortunately, we only have the benefit of hindsight after we do things, that's how hindsight works

We are humans, not gods; we have to make our choices with the limited knowledge of humans

And that's why talking to Preceptor Joerg is just as valuable as anyone else

Thank you for coming to my talk
 
I'm imagining him as Human Kazador, tbh

Sir Joerg von Zavstra, Preceptor of the Knights of Taal's Fury, commands the Magnus.
Mystic: Even among Knights dedicated to Him, Joerg is extremely knowledgeable of the mysteries of Taal.
Quiet: Unless the topic is beasts or battle, Joerg rarely has much to say.
Boisterous: Kazador has a cheerful and loud approach to life.

Seems not to be the case, given what's on the Dramatis Personae.
 
The big problem with Windherder is not that it has no uses... But it is extremely unlikely that we ever use it seriously because it would take several actions to figure it out what we can do with it... And most of the thread will think: "Why I am going to use our extremely valuable AP just to determine what we can do with a Trait, when we could just that AP, to research AV, create new cpells, learn battlemagic, binding apparitions, improve our proficiency with Brangulde, control our Arcane Marks, etc. All of which will grant us immediate and tangible benefits?"

The only way in which I can see Mthilde making use of Windherder is by choosing "Magic Engineering" as our job for Belegar, that way we will be using our "Job" actions to to research Windherder.
The argument of "we shouldn't try and do X because people will never go for doing X" just doesn't make sense for me. Maybe we'll fail to persuade people - but why is that a reason not to try?

There are people pushing for Ulgu Tongs, which currently does literally nothing and would basically be a somewhat evolved version of Windherder - if it works. Windherder at least does something when we make use of it.

People pushed through to research AV enough to get the rune usage. Further research doesn't give any sort of immediate and tangible benefit - we have a way to spend the stuff that's hugely valuable.

Hell, if you really want to create new spells we could make a Light+Shadow spell where we channel the power of a Light College Chorus to achieve something neither wind could alone. Admittedly we'd have to persuade them to lend us one...
 
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[x] Use Rite of Way for the worst patches of rough terrain
[x] Use Rite of Way for the moderately difficult ground
[X] Attempt to steal the Chaos artefact
[x] [HEIST] Ljiljana
[x] Explore these mountains for any exotic animals, plants, or phenomena
[x] Ice Crone Ljiljana
 
I will say next time we go on an adventure I think we should pick one to three characters to social rather than try and hit everyone.

3 People on this trip that we have talked to I would like to talk more to:

1: Asarnil there is just something great about a guy so fucking full of himself, but actually able to back it up (The caster Gil effect)

2: Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart the Younger: he actually seems fun to talk to, we don't really have a scheming and plotting buddy outside of Hedi, and he seems like he would be up for 'changing the world we live in' shenanigans

3: Magister Egrimm van Horstmann: the tension is great, even if the conversations themselves are a bit forgettable.

who we talked to that I don't really care for to my surprise.

1: Deathfang: surprise pick, but I don't really think they are the more interesting out of the duo, I would actually prefer to talk to Asarnil over Deathfang.

2: Ice Crone Ljiljana, I don't think she gives a shit about talking to us outside of the job, and the feeling is mutual.

3: Journeyman Cyrston von Danling: ehhh, I like him, but not as much as I thought, maybe he needs more room to grow on me.
 
The argument of "we shouldn't try and do X because people will never go for doing X" just doesn't make sense for me. Maybe we'll fail to persuade people - but why is that a reason not to try?
Definitely agree. If there's something you want to do, you go out and argue for it.

The only reason not to is if you're fine with whatever is winning at the moment or if you get a sneaking suspicion your arguments are actually turning people away from your cause.
(Or if you just don't want to at the moment, obviously)
 
I'm rereading the chapters right before the expedition and It just heartbreaking how much people back on K8P like us, i have to wonder if perhaps Belegar, Gotri or Panoramia have discreetly visited our Shrine to ask Ranald for a sign that we are alright.
 
I'm rereading the chapters right before the expedition and It just heartbreaking how much people back on K8P like us, i have to wonder if perhaps Belegar, Gotri or Panoramia have discreetly visited our Shrine to ask Ranald for a sign that we are alright.
Panoramia probably hasn't given her general atheistic/agnostic tendencies, but I could see Belegar doing it.
 
[x] Use Rite of Way for the worst patches of rough terrain
[x] Use Rite of Way for the moderately difficult ground
[X] Attempt to steal the Chaos artefact
[x] [HEIST] Ljiljana, Johann, and Hubert
[x] Ice Crone Ljiljana
 
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Flicker: Light seems uneasy in your presence. Lamps flicker, candlelight dims, and fires burn low around you.

You know just an idea but considering parts of our soul are being replaced by Ulgu and arcane marks being signs of this. Perhaps our soul naturally interacts with Aqshy to try and stifle it thus causing lights and flames to flicker in our presence.

Just an idea but considering this doesn't produce dhar could we use this arcane mark to manipulate Aqshy? We already have an action to try to control our shadow and smoke and mist being attracted to us.

[ ] Gain enough control of your unruly shadow to still it temporarily.
[ ] Gain enough control of your attraction to smoke and gases to have it collect away from your face.

Perhaps we can investigate our flicker mark to see how it causes light and fire to flicker and if it actually is ulgu somehow repelling Aqshy then maybe it might be a viable way to try and manipulate Aqshy through Ulgu without producing dhar.

Edit: Also using this post to store stuff i may want use later
I've not decided one way or the other yet, but there is a ceiling on how far it can be refined and Mathilde might have reached it, at least until she delves deeper into being a being of magic rather than flesh and blood.
 
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Panoramia probably hasn't given her general atheistic/agnostic tendencies, but I could see Belegar doing it.

She seems to dislike Green sort of Gods due to confusion and theological mess of her order. Her opinion on Ranald seems to be that he is weird. Remember no one in Warhammer can really be atheistic as people IRL are. They know gods exist and hand out magic and well Pan knows the god of luck exists and Mathilde worships him. I would not count out her throwing a prayer his way.
 
"Why I am going to use our extremely valuable AP just to determine what we can do with a Trait, when we could just that AP, to research AV, create new cpells, learn battlemagic, binding apparitions, improve our proficiency with Brangulde, control our Arcane Marks, etc. All of which will grant us immediate and tangible benefits?"

Why are you so certain those would grant immediate and tangible benefits where Windherder wouldn't?

We've sunk a bunch of AP into AV and have just begun to scratch the surface.

Rite of Way took 4 AP to make.

We've learned the only battlemagic that our staff makes safe to use.

We have no earthly idea of how long it would take to bind an apparition.

We have no guarantee that learning to control our Arcane Marks is even possible, let alone knowledge of how long it'd take.

Everything worth doing takes effort, you have to start somewhere.

Here, at least, we've already started- we already have the trait, we just have to reach out and actually use it.
 
[x] [HEIST] Ljiljana, Johann, and Hubert
[x] [HEIST] Ljiljana and Johann
[x] Attempt to steal the Chaos artefact
[x] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart the Younger
[x] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann
[x] Ranging far ahead of the convoy
[x] Use Rite of Way for the worst patches of rough terrain
[x] Use Rite of Way for the moderately difficult ground
 
Here's a different suggest for Windherder.

We always have this "Go help out in Sylvania somehow" option open, right? And there's still a shitload of Battle Mages of all winds there, right?

[] Help out in Sylvania - Use Windherder to allow the Battle Mages to better focus fire during battles.
 
I'm rereading the chapters right before the expedition and It just heartbreaking how much people back on K8P like us, i have to wonder if perhaps Belegar, Gotri or Panoramia have discreetly visited our Shrine to ask Ranald for a sign that we are alright.
I could see it. The funnier part would be his actual response, especially if they asked after Vlag.
 
@BoneyM

Is there at some point going to be a max level for the various trait upgrades Mathilde gets at the end of a arc such as this one?

Or are you fine with Mathilde theoretically having better windsight then Lord Kroak (Presumably after 8 or so more upgrades) if this quest goes on for long enough? (Also for traits like Avatar there would not be much room left for growth after Mathilde reaches ''is to Ranald what the Fay Enchantress is to the Lady'')

Also another potential problem is that you might run out of cool things to name the traits if we constantly upgrade a specific trait when given the chance.

Take Warrior of Fog for example, the last time we had a chance to upgrade it it would have turned into General of Fog which is cool and all, but what will you name it after we upgrade it ten more times?

Would the name then just end up being something super silly like ''SUPREME SUPER MEGA ULTRA GOD-EMPRESS OF FOG-KIND'' or something of that nature?



ps. Would a battlefield spell that helpfully highlights enemy combatants by, I dunno maybe attaching a bunch of Marsh Lights to them, be something that Mathilde could create? (I'd assume so seeing as this spell idea (Unlike admittedly almost all other spells we have suggested thus far) actually follows the description of Warrior of Fog to the letter with the whole ''revealing troop movements'', either way I'd thought it couldn't hurt to ask)

extra ps. would a spell that creates a super thick fog that aside from blocking sight (With maybe only Mathilde or those with really good windsight being able to still see) and also muffles sound, be aplicable under the ''concealing troop movements'' part of Warrior of Fog, or is that too much of a strech? (Or in more eloquent terms I'm basically asking if Mathilde could invent her own version of Grue from Worm's dark smokey clouds, (With instead of clouds having it be fog instead))
 
[x] Use Rite of Way for the worst patches of rough terrain
[x] Use Rite of Way for the moderately difficult ground
[X] Attempt to steal the Chaos artefact
[x] [HEIST] Ljiljana, Johann, and Hubert
[x] Ice Crone Ljiljana
 
[] [HEIST] Ljiljana and Johann

This vote is a mess, by the way. There are like three different versions of it, but some people (myself included) are doing multiple versions to make sure our vote is counted... and some people aren't. I'm not sure how we're going to get it sorted out how many people actually prefer Ljiljana and Johann.

This might be one of the few occasions where a mass-ping is appropriate to tell everyone voting for a variation "this is the version you should vote for if this is the option you want".
 
I don't see a rush on Windherder (Unless we pick Waystones immediately when we get back) and am not interested in making something just to make something with it. I'm fine with it being a slow burn until a pressing need for it comes up, I don't see it as a waste though. When we have need of it I think we'll be really glad it's there. It's just not a short term return.

When we're ready to end up making use of it though I think we should have finished off the last level of teachable enchantment beforehand. Finish learning the previously charted map before venturing into the unknown.

Is there at some point going to be a max level for the various trait upgrades Mathilde gets at the end of a arc such as this one?

There isn't necessarily a max level possible, but not every chance to pick up a trait is going to have a chance to upgrade a previously taken trait. So there already is effectively a cap, it's just that cap may or may not shift depending on how Mathilde progresses in the future.
 
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I could see it. The funnier part would be his actual response, especially if they asked after Vlag.
Note attached to the Shrine of Ranald.
Due to ongoing legal proceedings pertaining to the soul of Lorekeeper Weber, my client is unable to make any proclamations about the state or condition of Lorekeeper Weber at this time.
signed: <insert appropriately stuffy name here>, solicitor
 
[] [HEIST] Ljiljana and Johann

This vote is a mess, by the way. There are like three different versions of it, but some people (myself included) are doing multiple versions to make sure our vote is counted... and some people aren't. I'm not sure how we're going to get it sorted out how many people actually prefer Ljiljana and Johann.

This might be one of the few occasions where a mass-ping is appropriate to tell everyone voting for a variation "this is the version you should vote for if this is the option you want".
When Boney tallies the votes, he can merge the options together. When merged, multi-votes will still only count as one.
 
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