- Location
- Pindorama
Hmm, the Three Poisons and the Five Virtues? I suppose if a human were to wield the 8 Winds his mindset would be sufficient alien to call "enlightened". Or maybe they were just a weirdo Elf.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's been hinted at several times that we should poke our nose into Eonir politics to secure our position in the city.
We should we really throw a bone to our supporting houses that don't have a flow of income to show for their exterior outlook.
We should we really throw a bone to our supporting houses that don't have a flow of income to show for their exterior outlook.
I just had a
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
- Location
- the Philippines
In my mind, ideally we would do elfcation after the gigaflex of the orbs and the AV book are done. I think something about waystones has also been mentioned? Just so if something bad happens on elfcation we've gotten those two important things out into the world.
For my part I'd like it if we'd also done an apparation spell by then so we can test it out on Druchii volunteers.
For my part I'd like it if we'd also done an apparation spell by then so we can test it out on Druchii volunteers.
- Location
- California, USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I like the plan, I want both of those EIC actions this turn and feel like if there's any point we should abandon our "three AP on different project actions" thing it would be right now at the penultimate and presumably very difficult hump. But I don't think I saw anyone suggest doing the Orbs this turn, can I ask why you think it's a good idea? Also having Eike just learning sounds feels like a waste. I had the impression it would just be a regular reroll for the spell, and there's been some momentum on moving away from magic for the time being. Maybe sounds and something else?
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The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Honestly, one of the things that's been occurring to me since the Elementalism books is the prospect of it being what the forms of magic are.
I haven't posted it since well, scope creep bloated it out to a 2k monstrosity and even then I couldn't finish but...
Well, It occurs to me that each interaction of the Aetheric Vitae turns it into something very different.
Interaction with (or under the influence of?) the winds of magic turns it into the winds of magic.
Interaction with Dhar, warpstone, or Morrsleib turns it into Dhar
Interactions with divine power turn the wind into divine power.
Interactions with nothing turn it into reality itself.
Which split into two tracks: One about what the Winds of Sevir are, and one about what Dhar is.
If every wind of magic turns the Aetheric into all eight winds, then maybe it's the winds of magic that are the odd thing out? Perhaps the winds are not truly separate things, but bound together by common nature. Each one by contrast and comparison defining not only itself, but all the others.
I'd initially compared it to a gas flame or an echoing shout, but it occurs to me that a better metaphor might be an oral tradition. Each wind acting to telling the new material entering the world not merely of itself, but also its kin.
Perhaps Sevir, the entire system of magic, is its own distinct and complete thing.
Which, of course, would have implications that anything else that looked like a wind might merely pretending to be a wind of magic.
---
So to carry on to the second line of thought, it occurs to me that this is proof that not only Dhar is not a wind of magic, but if there is a source to the metaphorical gas flame. For Dhar that source would have to be Morrsleib, wouldn't it?
Which would be... interesting. Where the winds were made part of reality long ago and now seem sourceless, The chaos moon is renewing its grip on the world every night.
Is that just a fact of life, or is that something that's required? If Morrsleib were to simply... cease to be, would Dhar, and all it's influence and metaphysics, slowly fade out?
In conclusion:
(EDIT: not a serious suggestion)
I haven't posted it since well, scope creep bloated it out to a 2k monstrosity and even then I couldn't finish but...
Well, It occurs to me that each interaction of the Aetheric Vitae turns it into something very different.
Interaction with (or under the influence of?) the winds of magic turns it into the winds of magic.
Interaction with Dhar, warpstone, or Morrsleib turns it into Dhar
Interactions with divine power turn the wind into divine power.
Interactions with nothing turn it into reality itself.
Which split into two tracks: One about what the Winds of Sevir are, and one about what Dhar is.
If every wind of magic turns the Aetheric into all eight winds, then maybe it's the winds of magic that are the odd thing out? Perhaps the winds are not truly separate things, but bound together by common nature. Each one by contrast and comparison defining not only itself, but all the others.
I'd initially compared it to a gas flame or an echoing shout, but it occurs to me that a better metaphor might be an oral tradition. Each wind acting to telling the new material entering the world not merely of itself, but also its kin.
Perhaps Sevir, the entire system of magic, is its own distinct and complete thing.
Which, of course, would have implications that anything else that looked like a wind might merely pretending to be a wind of magic.
---
So to carry on to the second line of thought, it occurs to me that this is proof that not only Dhar is not a wind of magic, but if there is a source to the metaphorical gas flame. For Dhar that source would have to be Morrsleib, wouldn't it?
Which would be... interesting. Where the winds were made part of reality long ago and now seem sourceless, The chaos moon is renewing its grip on the world every night.
Is that just a fact of life, or is that something that's required? If Morrsleib were to simply... cease to be, would Dhar, and all it's influence and metaphysics, slowly fade out?
In conclusion:
(EDIT: not a serious suggestion)
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I was previously thinking about the elfcation this turn, but the prospect of stacking up a huge amount of cash first (Plus having the apparition done) makes it seem like it would be best to delay.
So I think something like this would be good, pretty similar to most of the other plans I've seen but changing out Kislev tributaries for Hochland, I think it's too early to have good results out of Kislev from what we've been told, especially considering we may have a full waystone available shortly, which I think would be a lot more impressive and likely to get more institutional support. So instead I go for what should be another easy win to get more momentum for deployment, Hochland has a chip on its shoulder and is always on the lookout for ways to stand out, so this is an appealing prospect from that PoV, additionally with the Hochland college there is an easy source of casters to do the work (We've been told the college has a lot of relative hermits that live out in the woods). I'm not totally settled on who all should be on each waystone action yet though.
Other than that, I think Egrimm working with us on the enchanted weapons makes a good amount of sense.
For Eike, I think she'd actually be very helpful on the KAU action with her focus on efficiency, but it's starting to be quite a few actions at that point so may be too much.
[ ] Plan Temp
-[ ] JOHANN: Hunt an apparition (Rider in Red)
--[ ] COIN: The Gambler
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Study an artefact: (Kurgan enchanted weapons)
-[ ] Waystone: Foundation (Elrisse, Tochter, Hatalath, Cadaeth, Sarvoi, Thorek)
-[ ] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Hochland) (Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[ ] Attempt to create a liminal realm
-[ ] EIC: Negotiate and plan a magical route through the Schadensumpf to allow for easier trade with the Eonir without compromising their defenses
-[ ] KAU: Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library (Grand University of Nuln)
-[ ] SERENITY: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[ ] Eike Actions: KAU action, Lustrian Rubbings, EIC Action
-[ ] Eike Study: Intrigue
So I think something like this would be good, pretty similar to most of the other plans I've seen but changing out Kislev tributaries for Hochland, I think it's too early to have good results out of Kislev from what we've been told, especially considering we may have a full waystone available shortly, which I think would be a lot more impressive and likely to get more institutional support. So instead I go for what should be another easy win to get more momentum for deployment, Hochland has a chip on its shoulder and is always on the lookout for ways to stand out, so this is an appealing prospect from that PoV, additionally with the Hochland college there is an easy source of casters to do the work (We've been told the college has a lot of relative hermits that live out in the woods). I'm not totally settled on who all should be on each waystone action yet though.
Other than that, I think Egrimm working with us on the enchanted weapons makes a good amount of sense.
For Eike, I think she'd actually be very helpful on the KAU action with her focus on efficiency, but it's starting to be quite a few actions at that point so may be too much.
[ ] Plan Temp
-[ ] JOHANN: Hunt an apparition (Rider in Red)
--[ ] COIN: The Gambler
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact: (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Study an artefact: (Kurgan enchanted weapons)
-[ ] Waystone: Foundation (Elrisse, Tochter, Hatalath, Cadaeth, Sarvoi, Thorek)
-[ ] Tributary: Dreaming Wood (Hochland) (Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[ ] Attempt to create a liminal realm
-[ ] EIC: Negotiate and plan a magical route through the Schadensumpf to allow for easier trade with the Eonir without compromising their defenses
-[ ] KAU: Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library (Grand University of Nuln)
-[ ] SERENITY: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[ ] Eike Actions: KAU action, Lustrian Rubbings, EIC Action
-[ ] Eike Study: Intrigue
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Like you said, AV is fairly risky. I'd much rather we use those two AP on something else, my personal preference being Elfcation, if my previous post didn't give that away .😁
I actually think now is as good of an opportunity as we are likely to get to complete Elfcation, unless we want to wait until we're done with the Waystone Project. We are almost certainly going to be putting a maximum of two AP on the Waystone project for the next two turns. That's six free AP, and I don't think we're likely to have that many available over two turns again for quite some time.
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
this can be removed
before I start making a Father plan, Boney did you ever confirm that asking a Hedgewise to help with the liminal realms was a viable action?
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Charcoal is still on here, btw.
I think someone proposed this at one point after we figured out we could try the Liminal Realm action. But it's the sort of speculation that should be saved up until we have at least figured out how to prevent daemons from entering one.
Big same. The offer stands up until the end of the world, there is literally no hurry and I'm irked by how people seem willing to drop our nearly-done research and go on a big adventure so quickly and suddenly.
It's very loosely based off the five elements and three faults of Ayurveda, with a bit of Tantra thrown in.
If it's in the same plan, yes.
Help in what way?
Honestly, it's a great time for elfcation.
Here's Plan Stars And Stones:
[] Stars and Stones
-[ ] [ ] [ ] Travel to Nagarythe at the invitation of Ambassador Daroir, and join their eternal war against Naggarothi invaders for three months.
-[ ] Waystone: Foundation (Everyone)
-[ ] Study an artefact: Kurgan Shrine to Mannslieb
-[ ] EIC: Negotiate and plan a magical route through the Schadensumpf to allow for easier trade with the Eonir without compromising their defences
-[ ] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (specify which: Araby)
-[]Eike actions: Foundation.
-[ ] SERENITY: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[]Eike Study: Intrigue
-[ ] The Protector
Frankly, we are at this moment at a point where the waystone foundation has just one bit more before we get to try building waystones. This makes it the best possible time to do Elfcation.
As for Araby, we don't know what's going on there, very few do, and its massive. Lets find out.
The reasons to do the protector are obvious, given Elfcation.
Finally, I'm just really interested in the shrine to Mannslieb.
Here's Plan Stars And Stones:
[] Stars and Stones
-[ ] [ ] [ ] Travel to Nagarythe at the invitation of Ambassador Daroir, and join their eternal war against Naggarothi invaders for three months.
-[ ] Waystone: Foundation (Everyone)
-[ ] Study an artefact: Kurgan Shrine to Mannslieb
-[ ] EIC: Negotiate and plan a magical route through the Schadensumpf to allow for easier trade with the Eonir without compromising their defences
-[ ] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (specify which: Araby)
-[]Eike actions: Foundation.
-[ ] SERENITY: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[]Eike Study: Intrigue
-[ ] The Protector
Frankly, we are at this moment at a point where the waystone foundation has just one bit more before we get to try building waystones. This makes it the best possible time to do Elfcation.
As for Araby, we don't know what's going on there, very few do, and its massive. Lets find out.
The reasons to do the protector are obvious, given Elfcation.
Finally, I'm just really interested in the shrine to Mannslieb.
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- Location
- Pindorama
Impatience, mainly, and also for the "double double" plan name. It can be swapped out for another action like apparitions or a waystone action, if necessary.
My plan has her tagging along on three things, one of which is kinda important (Nordland infiltration). I don't want to shove too much work onto her in one turn. I'm happy to add more actions if people can convince its necessary, however.
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
I think somebody had proposed that their knowledge of The Hedge would be relevant, though if it isn't transferable I wouldnt be surprised, which is why I'm asking.
You can try. You'd want to gauge how well a fit the specific circumstances would be for the intervention of Ranald.
What is Mathilde trying to do and what assistance is the Hedgewise supposed to provide? I need something to work with here.
Honestly, I'd split the Elfcation over two turns, put gambler on first turn's Elfcation, and then switch to Protector for the second turn's. An auspicious start to the Elfcation could lead to better Protector gains. Like, Gambler could lead to Mathilde being noticed by a Big Shot Shadow Warrior who takes her under their wing to all the best Druichii fighting spots.
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chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Is this the turn we'll be attempting to start up the whole Apparition saga? It's been burning a hole in my attention span for seasons.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Here's my quick and dirty turn plan for people to start poking at:
[-] Plan Redshirt v1.61803
-[-] MAX: Study: Books and rubbings from an Asur explorer of Lustria and the Southlands
-[-] JOHANN: Hunt an apparition (Whispering Darkness)
-[-] EGRIMM: Windherding (Stat-Swapping Mirror
)
-[-] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Damsels)
--[-] COIN: The Father
-[-] Waystone: Foundation (Fuckin' Everyone)
-[-] SERENITY: Write a paper: Windfall Observations, with Egrimm as Primary Author
-[-] EIC: Negotiate and plan a magical route through the Schadensumpf to allow for easier trade with the Eonir without compromising their defences.
-[-] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (Nordland)
-[-] KAU: Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library. (Grand University of Nuln)
-[-] Eike Actions: EIC Agents in Nordland, Waystone Foundation
-[-] Eike Study: Sounds
My reasoning:
- It's been long enough, it's time to do apparition binding.
-- Johann can come along and help us, and I want to bind the Whispering Darkness, since it seems more congruent with our themes and we can probably stack the Staff of Mistery and Warrior of Fog traits to get something truly incredible.
- Windherding has also been neglected, and brushing up on how to get multiple different winds to play together well is going to be especially important when it comes to setting up the Foundation.
-- Ideally we'd want something relevant to the foundation, but in leiu of that... per White Dwarf 389 (UK), pg. 69, Ulgu is able to create the spell "Ranald's Mischief", where "Using a small silver mirror, the wizard switches an ability of one of his allies with that of one of his enemies." I have no clue if this is actually a good idea or not, but I thought it might be funny if in this timeline, Horstmann's Speculum was a joint Ulgu/Hysh windherder project.
--- I'd want QM confirmation that we could do something like this without it causing weird looks because Horstmann already made his mirror, or because a random White Dwarf isn't a reliable source. @Boney ?
- I want the Fey Enchantress to fulfill the prophecy and kick down our door while "X Gon' Give It To Ya" plays. It'll also finally settle the question of whether me and @Godwinson got hit by Apollo's dodgeball while shitposting.
-Everyone on the Foundation because, duh?
-Extra EIC action to infiltrate Nordland, to make sure we have an eye on things and to give Eike a practical lesson alongside the Hochlander
-- If I get the inspiration for it maybe I'll write up another Hochlander omake installment where he gives Eike advice?
[-] Plan Redshirt v1.61803
-[-] MAX: Study: Books and rubbings from an Asur explorer of Lustria and the Southlands
-[-] JOHANN: Hunt an apparition (Whispering Darkness)
-[-] EGRIMM: Windherding (Stat-Swapping Mirror
)-[-] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Damsels)
--[-] COIN: The Father
-[-] Waystone: Foundation (Fuckin' Everyone)
-[-] SERENITY: Write a paper: Windfall Observations, with Egrimm as Primary Author
-[-] EIC: Negotiate and plan a magical route through the Schadensumpf to allow for easier trade with the Eonir without compromising their defences.
-[-] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (Nordland)
-[-] KAU: Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library. (Grand University of Nuln)
-[-] Eike Actions: EIC Agents in Nordland, Waystone Foundation
-[-] Eike Study: Sounds
My reasoning:
- It's been long enough, it's time to do apparition binding.
-- Johann can come along and help us, and I want to bind the Whispering Darkness, since it seems more congruent with our themes and we can probably stack the Staff of Mistery and Warrior of Fog traits to get something truly incredible.
- Windherding has also been neglected, and brushing up on how to get multiple different winds to play together well is going to be especially important when it comes to setting up the Foundation.
-- Ideally we'd want something relevant to the foundation, but in leiu of that... per White Dwarf 389 (UK), pg. 69, Ulgu is able to create the spell "Ranald's Mischief", where "Using a small silver mirror, the wizard switches an ability of one of his allies with that of one of his enemies." I have no clue if this is actually a good idea or not, but I thought it might be funny if in this timeline, Horstmann's Speculum was a joint Ulgu/Hysh windherder project.
--- I'd want QM confirmation that we could do something like this without it causing weird looks because Horstmann already made his mirror, or because a random White Dwarf isn't a reliable source. @Boney ?
- I want the Fey Enchantress to fulfill the prophecy and kick down our door while "X Gon' Give It To Ya" plays. It'll also finally settle the question of whether me and @Godwinson got hit by Apollo's dodgeball while shitposting.
-Everyone on the Foundation because, duh?
-Extra EIC action to infiltrate Nordland, to make sure we have an eye on things and to give Eike a practical lesson alongside the Hochlander
-- If I get the inspiration for it maybe I'll write up another Hochlander omake installment where he gives Eike advice?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
...Is that a valid action, @Boney?
Mind, I personally think we shouldn't dive into elfcation before we have some apparitions bound, there's hardly a better place for our personal power to matter after all. But when the time comes...
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
And yet, Mathilde has no books on Verena.
Joking: Extra-dimensional geometry. Because I'm sure most Hedgewise know a lot of advanced mathematics.
Yep. It came up in the discussion last turn and Boney said it was fine so long as we didn't split the action into more than two turns.
I mean I don't hate it, but frankly as far as Elfcation goes, I think a lot of people are delaying with no plan of when to do it, and a time at which we have only one action for the main body of the project is as good a time as I can see. I also don't really think that this is anywhere as guaranteed as you're making it out to be? But if there are major AP gains by splitting it, I'd be interested to see a plan which starts the project this year, but doesn't complete it.
EDIT: Also, if someone else has a plan which doesn't do it, can they state when they would want to do it?
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