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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Keep in mind that this is a world with elves and dwarves in it. Kragg predates Bretonnia. Thorgrim and Teclis predate the Colleges of Magic. Niedzwenka predated Kislev.

The idea of some 'other people' might outlive the average human is not news. And Wizards are different enough that most would consider them 'other people'.

Related note: How should we go about discovering whether the Fey Enchantress is an inherited title or an individual without admitting ignorance and asking outright?
 
deathofrats0808 said:
I, personally, would like the quest to end at some point. I'm enjoying it but things that drag in with no end tend to end up boring me.
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Then stop playing the quest when you get bored? Why ruin it for everyone else? It's a quest that takes place over the lifetime of a character, it's not designed to have a beginning middle and end like a story.
 
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Abhorsen said:
Then stop playing the quest when you get bored? Why ruin it for everyone else? It's a quest that takes place over the lifetime of a character, it's not designed to have a beginning middle and end like a story.
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Your stating 'Why ruin it for everyone else' like they got actual power to. Your being a bit aggro there m8.

Nothing wrong with having a good send off if the stars align.
 
Abhorsen said:
Also, we want to become a personification of Ulgu cause it sounds cool.
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And thus is where I part ways. I don't think it sounds cool. I think it sounds like a self aggrandizing power wank.

Abhorsen said:
Then stop playing the quest when you get bored? Why ruin it for everyone else? It's a quest that takes place over the lifetime of a character, it's not designed to have a beginning middle and end like a story.
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If it gets close I probably will bug out.
 
I'm waiting for hat quest where Mathilde botches immortality spell and binds herself to her hat and can only talk to whoever's wearing it and through Wolf. But there is a bit of a Dämmerlichtreiter connection that we use AP to explore and expand. Demigod hat Mathilde.
 
Glau said:
And thus is where I part ways. I don't think it sounds cool. I think it sounds like a self aggrandizing power wank.
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But it's not a "self aggrandizing power wank".

Fully embracing the nature of Ulgu wouldn't be a direct upgrade of our abilities, but rather a gradual transition of Mathilde's soul-stuff into something else, bringing with it all the character strengths and flaws that implies.

It's a process that started at during her childhood, and one that will slowly continue until she dies. It's an inherent part of being a wizard (and playing one), and it's not wrong for people to be excited about where that change will bring both Mathilde and ourselves in the narrative.
 
Glau said:
And thus is where I part ways. I don't think it sounds cool. I think it sounds like a self aggrandizing power wank.
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Eh, it could be either IMO. If it's easy to earn, then yes, I totally agree. But I have faith that if this is an option Boney presents, it won't be an easy one, and progress towards it will be very much earned.

Like "Oh, we just magic'd up a solution to Waystones by making friends with dwarves and elves and they gave us their closely guarded secrets, so we fixed the world" sounds completely powerwankish when phrased like that.

But, "we, through real time years earned trust from Dwarves, by scamming the elves through high stakes bluffing, and fooling some people to work together, eventually got something that's similar to a waystone but not exactly the same"? That's not a power fantasy, that seems earned.

I expect something similar if we ever start down the being of Ulgu path (with something like how Elspeth von Draken has a dead god in a jar, I imagine we'd need to do something similarly badass).
 
Tasoli said:
Huh, I wonder what kind of social implications for the Empire will be if Collages figure out how to become immortal.
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There is one known option with a terrible downside, and one potential known option that nobody has figured out how to actually pull off yet.

The first is to use Transformation of Kadon to leave your human body behind and become a full-time dragon, as those don't really die of old age (like, they can, but functionally they don't as their lifespan is long enough that something will get them first). Holding on to your human sense of self through the ages in a different form is an exercise left to whoever had the terminal form of xeno-affinity that led to the decision. The social implications of becoming a dragon also likely outweigh the ones involved in agelessness, too.

The second is for a Gold mage to complete the gilding process and apply the ritual to their brain. 0% survival rate so far, but it only has to work once to pave the way, right?
 
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Glau said:
And thus is where I part ways. I don't think it sounds cool. I think it sounds like a self aggrandizing power wank.
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Can you elaborate on why? Personally, I don't see it; Cython is powerful but hardly unbeatable, and they started as a dragon. I would expect Mathilde to achieve the same or worse results, not starting as a dragon. Not that being comparable to a dragon wouldn't be a power boost, but I seem to be missing something for "self-aggrandizing power wank" to apply.

Gavin Prince said:
There is one known option with a terrible downside, and one potential known option that nobody has figured out how to actually pull off yet.
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I believe Boney's said that wizards of all sorts eventually stop having to worry about old age if they progress far enough, with the implication that that was separate to a Wind Ascension. But given that they continue to live in Malus, I suspect that the number of wizards for whom that becomes relevant is a different question.
 
We really shouldn't worry about the wind ascension thing. This kind of transformation is slow and not something we can really force even if we wanted to. Given her propensity for adventure and studying new spells, I don't think Mathilde will end up dying of old age one way or the other. So let's relax.

To change the topic... I think next turn I'm pushing for us to take the Allies of Man class from the Colleges. I wanna be ready when the Ulthuan diplomats roll by (if they don't do so this social turn), and trying to gain the relevant diplomacy skill by doing it live doesn't seem that appealing to me.
 
Parabola said:
To change the topic... I think next turn I'm pushing for us to take the Allies of Man class from the Colleges. I wanna be ready when the Ulthuan diplomats roll by (if they don't do so this social turn), and trying to gain the relevant diplomacy skill by doing it live doesn't seem that appealing to me.
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I'm a little unclear on how the college lessons would work. Would we get the full "Asur 2/2 +1 diplo" skill from a single AP? And also would the fact that half the course is on the Dwarves, and therefore useless to Mathilde, be a detriment to developing the Asur skill?

Besides, if we're doing lessons, I think I'd rather study High Nehekharan—I think it's been confirmed that Mathilde could pick up written (but not spoken) in a single AP, which is enough to start translating the texts we have (well, we could try to translate them with just a dictionary, but I'd rather attempt to pick up the language first—translating dark magic with a just a dictionary sounds like a bad idea).
 
Angelform said:
The idea of some 'other people' might outlive the average human is not news. And Wizards are different enough that most would consider them 'other people'.
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Canon says that there was a period of time no one noticed the aristocracy of Sylvania were vampires because nobles typically live a fair deal longer than peasants anyway.

Abhorsen said:
Then stop playing the quest when you get bored? Why ruin it for everyone else? It's a quest that takes place over the lifetime of a character, it's not designed to have a beginning middle and end like a story.
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I fail to see how stating that I would prefer the quest to have a definite end at some point is ruining anything for other people but you go off.
 
Ulgu ascension isn't something I want to put effort towards or plan for over other things. This isn't to say I don't want to do arcane mark control actions, or to stop delving into Ulgu, I do want to do that, its just that I don't expect to get what I think a lot of people are thinking of when they say Ulgu ascension.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I'm a little unclear on how the college lessons would work. Would we get the full "Asur 2/2 +1 diplo" skill from a single AP? And also would the fact that half the course is on the Dwarves, and therefore useless to Mathilde, be a detriment to developing the Asur skill?
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When we took the Practical Diplomacy class, we rolled pretty well (above 100) and boosted Empire of Man to Basic, and it was mentioned the class included some bits on the Dwarves in general, so it was a bit redundant, but it also included a bit on Kislev and Bretonnia, which boosted them to 1/2 each. The Dwarven bits, at least, did not detract from the learning process.

Given how that class worked I would assume that if we roll really well it'll give us the full basic Asur diplomacy skill, but it's more overall likely it would only give us 1/2. The Dwarven bits won't a detriment to learning the Asur bits, but they do make it less appealing as an action overall because we could probably teach on them better than any other human.

I will contend that taking the class would still be better than trying to learn it by experience - this is very sensitive topic relevant to the entire survival of them and everything they know and love, and even if we only get 1/2, Boney has repeatedly stated incomplete skills still have a better narrative effect than not having it at all. At the very least, we'd avoid some common blunders.
 
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it might be fun if Boney flavored the action as Mathy spending the time she would've spent learning about dwarf diplomacy teaching it to others instead
 
It is warhammer fantasy. I think there are plenty ways to die left, even if old age wont take mathilde at 60. (or whatever the average life expectancy is in setting)
 
Parabola said:
I will contend that taking the class would still be better than trying to learn it by experience - this is very sensitive topic relevant to the entire survival of them and everything they know and love, and even if we only get 1/2, Boney has repeatedly stated incomplete skills still have a better narrative effect than not having it at all. At the very least, we'd avoid some common blunders.
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I wonder about getting a tutor to cram with on the ship voyage there; a CF or two to get just the Asur points? I think we could probably buy the services of someone in elftown who is returning home for gold if we go looking.

Quite possible that there wouldn't be enough time on the voyage though.
 
Boney said:
With close examination of the minute-to-minute data the pattern becomes clear: about once a day, the inflow of magic swells an almost imperceptible, but discrete and seemingly permanent, amount.
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I'm really impressed by our Journeymen here, and think they deserve a round of applause.

...No, seriously, they're casting a fiendishly complex ritual about twice a week without backlash. How are they not magisters yet? Do rituals have different casting requirements than normal spells? Do they just have a ton of circumstantial bonuses?
 
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Dwarven Wisdom
  • Media
    • Boney said:
    Zhufbar, Kadrin, Varr, Azul. Norn, Hirn, Izor. And Everpeak. Ever since we lost Dum and Vlag, only eight standing Karaks worthy of being called a Karak in the whole damn Karaz Ankor.
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    I was doing a reread of Dwarf lore for reasons unrelated and I recalled this, which led me to make this image instead of doing bookkeeping for my quest.
    Look don't question my creative process alright?
     
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    • Blackout said:
    Tyrion is the Everqueen's Champion and paramour, and Finubar's top general. If anything he's deeper in AP hell than Teclis.
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    All that this says to me is that whf could be fixed if the meme of 'while you [x] the Draugr (twins) were training' was applied instead of loading them up with 'honors'. Same vibe about not being enthusiastic about climbing the college ladder.
     
    MonkeyTypewriter said:
    I'm really impressed by our Journeymen here, and think they deserve a round of applause.

    ...No, seriously, they're casting a fiendishly complex ritual about twice a week without backlash. How are they not magisters yet? Do rituals have different casting requirements than normal spells? Do they just have a ton of circumstantial bonuses?
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    Rituals can't miscast IIRC. They have a particular failure state (in this case, you piss off the spirit) but they're less dangerous than spell casting.

    SCO said:
    All that this says to me is that whf could be fixed if the meme of 'while you [x] the Draugr (twins) were training' was applied instead of loading them up with 'honors'. Same vibe about not being enthusiastic about climbing the college ladder.
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    Teclis spends all his time AFAICT, deathly sick, trying to solve problems or researching to be better at solving problems. While Tyrion doesn't really care for the world outside of Ulthuan and is uninterested in solving problems if force is not an option.
     
    In the chapter he literally takes a potion to do a huge pile of accumulated paperwork because he's the one everyone sends reports\queries\asks for favors\attempt to trade favors to, without even a secretary, although I suppose the 'secretary' would need to be a high mage too to triage correctly and might miss stuff like this fluctuation. Regardless, I don't think you can say that Teclis isn't burndened by the position he holds. Sure, he probably had access to everything high magic. But if even 30% of his time is stewardship, that's (ooc) a waste. I suspect Tyrion has his own out of spec problems playing court.
     
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    SCO said:
    In the chapter he literally takes a potion to do a huge pile of accumulated paperwork because he's the one everyone sends reports\queries\asks for favors\attempt to trade favors to, without even a secretary, although I suppose the 'secretary' would need to be a high mage too to triage correctly and might miss stuff like this fluctuation. Regardless, I don't think you can say that Teclis isn't burndened by the position he holds. Sure, he probably had access to everything high magic. But if even 30% of his time is stewardship, that's (ooc) a waste. I suspect Tyrion has his own out of spec problems playing court.
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    He was doing paperwork because he was basically too sick to do anything else. He was literally bedridden. So it's not like he was wasting particularly useable time.

    Meanwhile Tyrion very explicitly doesn't play court. He gets called out as being a sucky politician who would be ostracised except for the fact that he's friends with literally everybody important and also terrifying (AFAIK his first resort when insulted is to challenge the opposing party to a duel. Then he kills them.), which results in him paying no attention to things that aren't "protect Ulthuan" or "protect Alarielle". He just gives no fucks about a topic unless it involves his family, his friends, or the defense of Ulthuan.
     
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