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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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fictionfan said:
I don't even know how to respond to this. Why do you think get more arcane marks without learning to control them increases our control and therefore increases our magic stat?
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Respectfully, I don't think that's what Tobtorp was saying at all. They weren't disputing the point that controlling the arcane marks might be useful, they were just being pedantic about the definition of the Magic stat. And, notably, they were correct:
Boney said:
This is largely a distinction that doesn't exist. If you have more power to use, you can focus more on control. If you have more control, you can use it to create more powerful spells.
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That being said, I think it's very unlikely that mastering our arcane marks will get us to a +1 magic trait of some kind. There already is a +1 magic trait to be had from Marks, and it's the Mark of Ulgu. That being said, I can imagine that mastering a given Mark might give us circumstantial bonuses on relevant spellwork, even if it doesn't upgrade our casting wholesale. Something like a +5 to concealing ourselves with Shrouded, that sort of thing.

(I am still mad that we didn't get Aspect of Ulgu when we miscast on Windherding, because it was right after a conversation with Belegar where he joked about us acting like a grey-haired Longbeard and if we had shown up six months later with grey hair it would have been the perfect gag. This is how I know Boney isn't fiddling the dice.)
 
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Boney said:
If the throne is vacant and a majority of the most powerful people in the Empire agree on who should fill it, then they have the power and influence to make that the case. The electoral process does not have any inherent magical rules that must be followed lest the Mandate of Heaven be lost, it's just a method to determine who would win a power struggle so that everyone can skip right past the ugly bits to the part where the winner gets crowned. There is no greater power that will enforce restrictions on who can and can't be a candidate.
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Huh. The implication that the cult of Sigmar would be worth 3 provinces in a civil war is interesting. As for the Mandate of heaven, that feels like a real concern in a world like warhammer. As the heirs of Sigmar, I could definitely see people wanting their emperors to all be sigmarites to avoid making Sigmar annoyed at His Empire.

Hm, I guess Ulthuan is probably the polity that most goes in for mandate of heaven stuff with the pheonix king supposedly the chosen of asuryan and the link between the everqueen and Isha. Settra(The Great, godtamer, etc, etc...) is *above* the gods of course, he doesn't need their approval. I suppose it'd be hard to rule in Brettonia if the Lady publicly excommunicated you.
 
I was just thinking about human adaptability and are there any human cultists of Mork and Gork? Because I can totally see it working.
 
fictionfan said:
I was just thinking about human adaptability and are there any human cultists of Mork and Gork? Because I can totally see it working.
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I think, since the only noted way of worship and communion with gork and mork is via waagh energy, it wouldn't work. mostly, because waagh energy is totally inert to human flesh and soul unless the gods themselves devote time to force it to be otherwise.

but also a bit because humans arn't big enough to be proper orcy, and arn't small enough to be proper gobbos.
 
The results of these things can be... quite explosive, even for the greenskins it was designed for, nevermind squishy outsider humies trying to jam their square peg selves into those round holes.
 
more likely they just got into a fight and died. a human that worships the gods of 'getting into a good scrap' but lack the greenskins ability to reproduce at an incredible enough rate for that to work long term, don't last long. by almost definition, if they did they would be bad worshippers.
 
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Wiggy said:
Huh. The implication that the cult of Sigmar would be worth 3 provinces in a civil war is interesting.
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The Cult of Sigmar is the largest and most powerful in the Empire, has multiple military arms and a number of ECs and their people would likely follow the Cult's lead. They're basically the Catholic Church in medieval Europe.
 
Wiggy said:
Huh. The implication that the cult of Sigmar would be worth 3 provinces in a civil war is interesting. As for the Mandate of heaven, that feels like a real concern in a world like warhammer. As the heirs of Sigmar, I could definitely see people wanting their emperors to all be sigmarites to avoid making Sigmar annoyed at His Empire.
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I believe that some Ulricans argue that since Sigmar worshipped Ulric, His emperors should also worship Ulric.
 
LightLan said:
The last one Gork and Mork tried to make it work with stabbed them in the back and robbed them blind.

They've gotten a bit more wary since :p
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They are actually sort of famous for short memories. Don't ever assume that they wont try something just because it failed disastrously the last dozen times.
 
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I believe that some Ulricans argue that since Sigmar worshipped Ulric, His emperors should also worship Ulric.
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IIRC this was one of the factors that led to the Age of Three Emperors.

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fictionfan said:
They are actually sort of famous for short memories. Don't ever assume that they wont try something just because it failed disastrously the last dozen times.
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Looks at the numerous times Orcs have decided to charge dwarf-fortified, well-defended locations
Sure are.
 
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deathofrats0808 said:
I'd actually split his martial out from his prowess. Martial would be middling (he can and does lead armies, but he's not spectacular at it) prowess would be slightly above average, but have massive debuffs due to being a cripple, which his potions and sword more or less mitigate.
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Even Crusader Kings 2 itself did this later, with a separate Personal Combat stat related-to but separate-from Martial. It just did it too late to make it into the standard CK2-Quest format at the time Divided Loyalties was launched.
 
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Gavin Prince said:
Even Crusader Kings 2 itself did this later, with a separate Personal Combat stat related-to but separate-from Martial. It just did it too late to make it into the standard CK2-Quest format at the time Divided Loyalties was launched.
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It did it several years prior to Divided Loyalties starting.

But it didn't do it quite soon enough to come before the original Warhammer Dynasty Quest started, and that quest is the one that all CK2 quests draw from.
 
picklepikkl said:
That being said, I think it's very unlikely that mastering our arcane marks will get us to a +1 magic trait of some kind. There already is a +1 magic trait to be had from Marks, and it's the Mark of Ulgu. That being said, I can imagine that mastering a given Mark might give us circumstantial bonuses on relevant spellwork, even if it doesn't upgrade our casting wholesale. Something like a +5 to concealing ourselves with Shrouded, that sort of thing.

(I am still mad that we didn't get Aspect of Ulgu when we miscast on Windherding, because it was right after a conversation with Belegar where he joked about us acting like a grey-haired Longbeard and if we had shown up six months later with grey hair it would have been the perfect gag.)
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I'm really curious about the various effects controlling Arcane Marks will bring. I'm also curious about the Wind Ascension idea since that would for sure buff Magic by a lot.
 
Tobtorp said:
The wind accession thing is a thing that might happen over the next centuries, not something done in the next 20 turns I feel.
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Wind Ascension is an a super long term project up there with trying to use High Magic and remaking the Language of the Old Ones. But it's also the one that's probably the easiest for Mathilde since as a human she'd be good at it and she has Cython as a reference.
 
Feim said:
'good at it' 'theoretically capable of it' tomato tomahto.
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Sorry didn't really communicate my thoughts on it well. I feel like Wind Ascension is the alliterative to learning High Magic and as a human she'd naturally be better at it than any other magic wielding race. Dragons may be able to pull it off but humans natural mutability would make it a lot easier for Mathilde to do compared to how much work it took Cython. So it would take her a couple of years instead of the centuries it took Cython.
 
I'm very much in favor of trying and finding out what arcane mark training does. I especially want to train our shadow. It already strangles enemies by itself, it seems like it'd be a great thing to train into a consistent anti-mobbing weapon while also bringing our soul under control.
 
ArcanaVitae said:
I'm really curious about the various effects controlling Arcane Marks will bring. I'm also curious about the Wind Ascension idea since that would for sure buff Magic by a lot.
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You're not wrong per se, in the sense that Boney has said that becoming immortal via a Wind probably starts at least getting literally every common Arcane Mark, and among the ones we have missing we still have the Mark of Ulgu to go. So in the process of getting them all we'd definitely reach Magic 10, but it's not something we can really force. Arcane Marks will naturally come by as long as we keep trying to do more stuff with Ulgu and don't die in the process - whether that is enchantments, learning Battle Magic, or using known spells in difficult or tricky situations (chain-casting like during the Skull River ambush, or the Moockery of Death incident, for instance).
 
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It would be nice to reach the theoretical human maximum Magic stat before getting the Mark of Ulgu, but I don't think anything we're working on is likely to achieve it. Unless we did some awesome, like enchant ourself directly.

...

...I suppose the Matrix kind of does that, so maybe if you designed a spell from the ground up with the idea it'd be working with the Matrix long term/indefinitely, it might be possible to something analogous to enchanting yourself?
 
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