Seal research wouldn't be physically taxing -- but the jog to the research facility five miles out probably would.


Seal research is definitely mentally taxing, but rote scribing and infusion (especially for seals that don't require SSA and where Hazou has enough veterancy that failure is ~impossible) is not taxing. Clan administration is not mentally taxing, for the most part.


For physical consequences, my heuristic would be "would doing this worsen your injuries?" Heuristics for mental consequences seems harder to adjudicate, I'll leave it to the QMs with spoon issues to describe their experiences of how they find certain tasks to be cognitively challenging when in a bad mental state.
Thanks for the answer (and sorry about being confusing with my wordings a bit, I edited the post but it looks like late enough that you responded to the confusingly-worded version)

Specifically for our current purposes: is there a way for Hazou in his current situation to do sealing research without physically taxing himself? i.e. taking a leisurely stroll to the facilities instead, with Kagome escorting him, or even by having Kagome carry Hazou there? I know I'm proposing a finicky and annoying way to get around Hazou's current physical limitations, but, like, when I broke my leg some years back that's exactly what I had to do irl.

Much of this will fall beneath the layer of abstraction anyways, so the true question here is whether it's possible at all, provided Hazou is willing to put up with finicky restrictions and lean on his family for help.
 
[x] Noumero
[x] Yes, Join Akatsuki

I believe I prefer joining Akatsuki but I'm just hoping that the Hive Mind will act as though the world has changed.
 
I think 'you have shown a sufficient lack of respect for me that I no longer feel inclined to honour promises made more than three years ago' is a perfectly reasonable stance which will not impact their social standing in this community.
Since you edited your post i'll respond to the new version too.
Calling that a lack of respect is an extreme lack of benefit of the doubt.
Also in this context, how long ago that promise was should have no effect on whether it is honored.
edit:
also i said it earlier but since it's still relevant in the new version. if you only keep your word to people who show you respect, that is not reasonable
edit2:
also since cariyaga cashed his voucher in. i guess i might still technically have both my vouchers?
 
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Alright, i'm going to try to optimize the action plan i posted earlier. While i write it, i want to feel out something.

What should Hazo reveal as far as convincing Itachi that we're mission-critical for the Dragonwar?
A: Nothing
B: Iron-nerve seal-downloading and recreation via earthshaping (iirc, the only practical way to make copies of the seal for examination, as the dragons are fucking sitting on top of it). Decently convincing IMO.
C: The above, and lithosealing in general. Major reveal, will certainly convince him Hazo is hot shit, will also get Akatsuki really interested in us.
 
Tsunade will order us to share this information immediately. Even if it sounds ridiculous, the fact that Hazou believes it enough to want to check it is enough for Tsunade to be appraised of the reason.
It's possible that we're forced to skip straight to the second part of the meeting, yes. That'd be inconvenient. However, my current feeling is that proactively sharing this and firmly asking for prep-time is the best way to avoid that, compared to trying to conceal it (and risk her catching us on concealing it, and so pressuring with double the effort because she'd be suspicious).

I'm wobbly on that though. What'd you suggest?
I find it impossible that Akatsuki would not have people monitoring the rift 24/7 (inb4 Hidan got saddled with the task as punishment duty). I would recommend making a mention of this.
I mention that in a later part:
Leaf's buy-in. Can't kill Akatsuki without Leaf's S-rankers, and likely can't covertly steal the rift either (they likely placed guards/spies there).
Also: Dragonwar/Conclave. That's something that takes away from lithosealing.
Made the following modification:
Ami: Can she handle that? Ensure over the next half-a-year minimum, you'd be solely focused on beating Akatsuki, with at most Dragonwar as distraction.
 
Alright, i'm going to try to optimize the action plan i posted earlier. While i write it, i want to feel out something.

What should Hazo reveal as far as convincing Itachi that we're mission-critical for the Dragonwar?
A: Nothing
B: Iron-nerve seal-downloading and recreation via earthshaping (iirc, the only practical way to make copies of the seal for examination, as the dragons are fucking sitting on top of it). Decently convincing IMO.
C: The above, and lithosealing in general. Major reveal, will certainly convince him Hazo is hot shit, will also get Akatsuki really interested in us.
B: Iron-nerve seal-downloading and recreation via earthshaping (iirc, the only practical way to make copies of the seal for examination, as the dragons are fucking sitting on top of it).

This secret is relatively inexpensive, and this is a high-leverage moment.
Only risk is that it downplays our actual skill. Hazoupilot thinks he's a better sealmaster than Orochimaru, let him say that!

EDIT: don't mention recreating it with ES, that removes Hazou's advantage at Dragonwar once he gives a copy to Orochimaru.
 
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Alright, i'm going to try to optimize the action plan i posted earlier. While i write it, i want to feel out something.

What should Hazo reveal as far as convincing Itachi that we're mission-critical for the Dragonwar?
A: Nothing
B: Iron-nerve seal-downloading and recreation via earthshaping (iirc, the only practical way to make copies of the seal for examination, as the dragons are fucking sitting on top of it). Decently convincing IMO.
C: The above, and lithosealing in general. Major reveal, will certainly convince him Hazo is hot shit, will also get Akatsuki really interested in us.
Definitely C.
Hazou is injured right now, he cant shock and awe any other way and we badly need a proof of skill and leverage and good will to swing the conversation that is almost closed atm. And Orochimaru will have 3D Sealing soonish anyway so its not going to be our unique secret for much longer even if we dont reveal it.
 
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B: Iron-nerve seal-downloading and recreation via earthshaping (iirc, the only practical way to make copies of the seal for examination, as the dragons are fucking sitting on top of it). Decently convincing IMO.

B with a side of C. I don't like mentioning 3D sealing like that, but I want to allude to it and to us being the only ones to make any progress.
 
Alright, i'm going to try to optimize the action plan i posted earlier. While i write it, i want to feel out something.

What should Hazo reveal as far as convincing Itachi that we're mission-critical for the Dragonwar?
A: Nothing
B: Iron-nerve seal-downloading and recreation via earthshaping (iirc, the only practical way to make copies of the seal for examination, as the dragons are fucking sitting on top of it). Decently convincing IMO.
C: The above, and lithosealing in general. Major reveal, will certainly convince him Hazo is hot shit, will also get Akatsuki really interested in us.
I'm somewhere between B and C, leaning toward C. Additionally, I'd like for this plan to lean more strongly in the "Yes" direction, even should we not figure out a way to make this work with the dragonwar.

I think that we can probably be like "Okay well -- how about this, I talk over the dragonwar details with Sasori and if he thinks my help is sufficiently-helpful, then you can work out a way to make this happen with Ami, otherwise you keep my scroll warm/return it to Leaf [not picky on which]."
 
Alright, i'm going to try to optimize the action plan i posted earlier. While i write it, i want to feel out something.

What should Hazo reveal as far as convincing Itachi that we're mission-critical for the Dragonwar?
A: Nothing
B: Iron-nerve seal-downloading and recreation via earthshaping (iirc, the only practical way to make copies of the seal for examination, as the dragons are fucking sitting on top of it). Decently convincing IMO.
C: The above, and lithosealing in general. Major reveal, will certainly convince him Hazo is hot shit, will also get Akatsuki really interested in us.
A.

If Itachi (who was been calm and collected this entire time) snaps at our refusal to join the Akatsuki, then he's an even bigger infantile idiot than we'd thought.

I want nothing to do with the Akatsuki, and we don't owe them any answers. -.-
 
PLEASE BE AWARE: I am not in favor of joining Akatsuki. Do not mistake me writing this plan as me wanting to join Akatsuki.

But I'm not much a fan of the current "join Akatsuki" plans thus far as Itachi's not going to let us talk to anybody about betraying Leaf, and IMO suggesting to do so is likely to annoy him. Which ends badly for us. Thus, a protoplan I'll probably be expanding as stuff comes up.

[X] Action Plan: Go All In With Two Fours
Word Count: Irrelevant
  • Be polite, be honest, do not put metaphorical or literal body parts in your mouth.
  • Fuck it.
    • Explain the work we've done so far on the rift, and our current plan to open it.
    • Explain to Itachi Earthshaping, Lithosealing, and everything else we've uncovered regarding 3D Sealing. Show him the uninfused blank we made, if Itachi permits it.
  • Go off and do Akatsuki things. Figure out how to not get Hidan'd.
 
But I'm not much a fan of the current "join Akatsuki" plans thus far as Itachi's not going to let us talk to anybody about betraying Leaf, and IMO suggesting to do so is likely to annoy him. Which ends badly for us.
+1 to this. Velorien already warned us about it.

He doesn't. It would mean Hazō probably spilling the beans on necromancy to half of Leaf, and also losing the choice because no loyal Leaf ninja is going to let him go off to do research for a faction that just killed their Hokage and then demanded to be paid for it.
 
[X] Action Plan: No, but Yes

A middle ground sure would be nice, and FS' points about how this is all stuff Itachi should be aware of seems reasonable to me, so why not
 
So, broadly, I think the best response here is something along these lines.

[X] Action Plan: Not Actually A Fleshed Out Action Plan

  • We would like to accept. Joining Akatsuki would have many benefits, and it's only because of the severe consequences to the Dragonwar and our friends and family and clan that we can't immediately accept.
    • (Very Risky) Outline that we are a better sealmaster than Itachi thinks by revealing Lithosealing.
      • This cannot be undone - only do it if we are certain we want to be 'acquired' by Akatsuki regardless, and hope we can convince him that the Dragonwar necessitates finding a solution with our family, reputation, and Leaf intact.
      • This proves to Itachi that we're not blowing smoke when we insist on being part of the Dragonwar; we're the only one who has any idea how to fix the Great Seal.
  • To that end, we would like to try to find a third option.
    • We're kind of spitballing here, so we understand that some of these might fall apart after close examination.
  • First, do we have permission to bring anyone else into this discussion? Ami is a third party who is trusted by both of us, and a world-class expert at finding third options in tricky political situations. We strongly believe that this situation would be better resolved with her help.
    • (Risky) Inform Itachi that Ami is read in on the Necromancy project and heartily approves, and as such is not a OPSEC risk for this discussion.
      • If Itachi is planning to kill us if we refuse, this may put Ami in the line of fire! Kei would never forgive us for getting Ami killed, and would most certainly revive us later on to enact a creative revenge.
  • If not, here are our ideas.
  • First idea: Make our cooperation a concession from Leaf.
    • You have Leaf over a barrel. You can change the deal.
    • Call it a head for a head or something. Kakuzu was valuable to you, we're valuable to Leaf, and maybe that could balance out.
      • Tell them you found our research more valuable than you anticipated.
    • Maybe offer concessions to sweeten the deal? Demand less land or something?
    • Downsides: hard to sell, if we seem eager instead of reluctant/resigned we could be considered a traitor regardless. Or even if we act perfectly, it's suspicious timing when we're already under suspicion.
  • Second idea: Go to Tsunade with Itachi. Bluntly inform her that Akatsuki will be able to bring back the dead shortly.
    • She has a few ways to respond to this:
      • Option 1: She rallies against it with all her might. Leaf gets bombed, AMITY falls apart, Leaf's ashes get annexed by Rock.
        • Absolute best case scenario there: She convinces the other nations that Akatsuki is going to achieve this. The villages band together to fight Akatsuki again in Nagi Island 2. And then after they're gone, AMITY falls apart and Leaf gets annexed by Rock.
      • Option 2: She stays out of it. Akatsuki gets Pain and other essies back, they stay unbeatable and continue to enforce AMITY.
        • Risky for her. It takes them at their word that they won't just do Nagi Island again.
      • Option 3: She cooperates and donates Hazo, who was independently researching resurrection. Leaf gets concessions, such as Jiraiya and other s-classers.
        • She can trust this option more, because obviously Hazo is going to push for bringing Jiraiya back.
        • Still kinda casts suspicions on Hazo.
    • She will likely know about this regardless.
      • You publicly announced that you wanted 'dimensional research'.
      • We told Asuma about it even if he didn't believe us and he probably wrote it down.
      • Shikamaru knows even if he wasn't convinced.
      • Ami knows and is convinced.
      • We told the Toad sages about our plans to revive Jiraiya, their former summoner.
      • Naruto, the soon-to-be Hokage, knows.
      • Kagome knows and worked with us extensively on the project.
      • Many of our family members know.
      • If you let us leave alive we will be obligated to tell our Hokage everything when she asks or get killboxed for treason. And she will ask.
      • Really, this just gets ahead of the game.
        • (But maybe don't provide a itemized list of who Akatsuki needs to assassinate if it can be avoided, even if concealing it is pretty unlikely at this point).
  • Third idea: Make this a public AMITY venture.
    • Pros: can probably spin it to Tsunade and get permission for us to help.
    • Cons: Causes absolute geopolitical clusterfuck the likes of which only Ami could wrangle.
  • Fourth idea: ???
    • "Kidnap" us?
    • Fake our death?
    • Secret shadow clone technique with unlimited range?
    • Let us stay here but we become pen pals with Sasori?
  • Also, if none of those work... are you going to let us leave alive if we refuse?
    • If 'no', then we'll come with you and swear on Akane's Resurrection to cooperate fully.
      • Obviously we'd prefer this instead of dying.
      • Not sure how we could avoid Itachi immediately bluffing to secure our cooperation.



This is a outline of course, it's too long for a real plan and i'm not a good plan-worderer regardless. But this seems to be what the majority of people would prefer.
suggestions!

It think this should start with we'd conditionally really like Pain alive, but are scared as hell that he would unilaterally do some scary ritual without anything like discussion, or agreement for anyone outside his bubble. Everyone else who learns about necromancy will share this worry.

Now that you publicly demanded our dimensionalism research, everyone is going to know about necromancy(for the reasons you've outlined very well).

This can either be Akatsuki Vs The World, where you try to keep everyone in line while you rush to resurrect Pain, or AMITY Ascendant, where we all work together to bring Pain back, under the condition of no unilateral super-rituals.
(you have a good analysis of why AMITY Ascendant is preferred)
 
i don't want to restrict pain to following amity's will. since itachi said pain probably wouldn't do another ritual again, i'm fine with that restriction if it gets leaf to give their support.
edit:
@Buggy
pinging you since mutant did, dunno if it was necessary for me to do so since his post only a few above mine.
 
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[X] EXPLAIN FORBIDDEN LORE TO ME OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU! DON'T DUMB IT DOWN INTO SOME VAGUE SHIT! EXPLAIN FORBIDDEN LORE TO ME RIGHT NOW OR I'LL LITERALLY FUCKING KILL YOU! WHAT THE FUCK IS THE TENFOLD ABOMINATION? WHAT THE FUCK IS PRIMAL MALICE? DON'T DUMB IT DOWN OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU
 
[jk] EXPLAIN FORBIDDEN LORE TO ME OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU! DON'T DUMB IT DOWN INTO SOME VAGUE SHIT! EXPLAIN FORBIDDEN LORE TO ME RIGHT NOW OR I'LL LITERALLY FUCKING KILL YOU! WHAT THE FUCK IS THE TENFOLD ABOMINATION? WHAT THE FUCK IS PRIMAL MALICE? DON'T DUMB IT DOWN OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU

Ngl, it would be nice to get Forbidden Lore from someone other than Kagome...
 
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[х] EXPLAIN FORBIDDEN LORE TO ME OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU! DON'T DUMB IT DOWN INTO SOME VAGUE SHIT! EXPLAIN FORBIDDEN LORE TO ME RIGHT NOW OR I'LL LITERALLY FUCKING KILL YOU! WHAT THE FUCK IS THE TENFOLD ABOMINATION? WHAT THE FUCK IS PRIMAL MALICE? DON'T DUMB IT DOWN OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU

This isn't a real x. Relax.
 
[X] EXPLAIN FORBIDDEN LORE TO ME OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU! DON'T DUMB IT DOWN INTO SOME VAGUE SHIT! EXPLAIN FORBIDDEN LORE TO ME RIGHT NOW OR I'LL LITERALLY FUCKING KILL YOU! WHAT THE FUCK IS THE TENFOLD ABOMINATION? WHAT THE FUCK IS PRIMAL MALICE? DON'T DUMB IT DOWN OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU
 
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