I'd be okay with raising Callig a few points. Really, my main concern is getting Hazou's Alertness and Athletics as high as his current pyramids will allow (thankfully, IN means a 39 in Athletics will raise him through to the next AB, regardless of pyramids... which he needs, badly :p )


These are just some of my, personal, scattershot thoughts, in no particular order.
  • His Athletics and Alertness have been in the 30s for ~3 irl years (at least, I'm pretty sure that they were that way when I first started back in the tail-end of 2019)
  • This cycle of "Hazou can't go outside, he's squishy" and "Hazou's not a frontliner, let's raise Sealing" is a bit draining.
  • Now that buffs have been nerfed, raising his Fundamentals have become more important than before, since we're limited in how much we can raise the Fundamentals with Sealing.
  • Higher combat stats means that Hazou can survive random encounters (like the Ultra Lethal Crystal Cave) better. Akane was a solid special-jonin in combat strength, and had all of our buffs, and she still got flattened by a random encounter (assuming we're wrong about the conspiracy)
  • Hazou taking Consequences every time he gets into combat is both amusing and frustrating
  • Gotta show Mari that we listen to her sometimes, lol
LMAO now I can't help but picture Hazou as a Hikikomori. Why go out and exercise when you got magic to research? All day everyday?
But to be fair, I think Asuma would be leery of letting Hazou out for a long time regardless of his stats. Unless he were an S-rank, at which point Asuma's opinion would be moot anyway.
 
Rule 4: Don’t Be Disruptive - You were asked nicely to stop.
No. You have been making statements with implications on a player's character. Implying that they 'don't care', that they 'ragequitted' because they didn't want to lose in a debate, rather than because the format of the debate was unhealthy, that's a judgement on their character.


ROTP has been particularly vocal in making sure that Yuno's perspective of chapter 604 was taken into account. Explicitly on an emotional level, too. Now -without debating about the adoption issue - I would tentatively agree (for I haven't researched this issue) that few players have been vocally indignant to the treatment of new adoptees. ROTP is no more at fault - if fault there is - than me and others.


I don't need citations, just a logical argument. If you wish to include statistics you use in your work, that's great - I believe in your professional integrity not to falsify them to win an argument over this. If that's too much work, then perhaps GPT-4 could make a fair summary under your supervision?


I may be dumb, but I don't even know what it means to use power 'wisely'. As far as I know, this moral question has been debated for thousands of years and we still haven't reached an answer that satisfies most philosophers.
1. 'Don't care' is not a character-affecting statement; it's an interpretation of their motivations. You can 'care' or 'not care' about a thing without it being a mark against your moral fibre for crying out loud. This isn't difficult to understand.

2. So - a character in the 'core' group got empathy and consideration for their beliefs, but one outside the in-group didn't, instead relegated to 'hypocritical' and not worth consideration? This is not the argument you think it is, it's just a description of a common faulty human cognitive heuristic for prioritizing shit.

3. Define what you mean by logic here; the very word is loaded within 'rational' spaces, and without definition in argument can be impossible to satisfy. Do you mean simply 'A is followed by B, etc' or do you require positivism-based meaningless emotion-stripped 'logic' like many self-proclaimed 'rationalists' I've had the misfortune of encountering in the past?

If it's simple then to put it quite simply: Hazou is the head of a clan. A clan is not run like a corporation, a cult or a ideological party. Joining does not mean that the entirety of one's being is subsumed to the greater will and purpose of the leader. It is the opposite; Hazou has an implicit responsibility to the wellbeing of members, including their integration into and identification with the clan. To effectively carry out this purpose, Hazou must consider things from the perspectives of members.

To cast aside this perspective, to disregard it as irrational, petty or otherwise beneath consideration is both a failure in that duty and an ethical wrong. Fundamental ethics for having responsibility for a person includes respect for self-determination, respect for culture and respect for emotion. When you cast aside these, you get... well an awful lot of atrocities. Apart from the raft of colonial horrors, you get incarceration of the neurodivergent (a and c), programs of forced ethnic assimilation (a, b, c) and other assorted bad shit. Ethics within my field has in very large part grown out of 'how do we not act like the British' (only partly joking there).

4. The bare minimum to be considered in the ballpark of 'wisely' is to do so with all perspectives in mind and awareness of your own biases and how they affect your judgement/heuristics. That is... not happening. In fact, posters have outright rejected perspectives they don't like and refused to use them in decision-making (dear fuck the Keiko salt).
 
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I agree with that. Survival first, then what is likely to be the last calligraphy improvement we make, then we pyramid juggle to make PS capstone.
I'd be okay with raising Callig a few points. Really, my main concern is getting Hazou's Alertness and Athletics as high as his current pyramids will allow (thankfully, IN means a 39 in Athletics will raise him through to the next AB, regardless of pyramids... which he needs, badly :p )


These are just some of my, personal, scattershot thoughts, in no particular order.
  • His Athletics and Alertness have been in the 30s for ~3 irl years (at least, I'm pretty sure that they were that way when I first started back in the tail-end of 2019)
  • This cycle of "Hazou can't go outside, he's squishy" and "Hazou's not a frontliner, let's raise Sealing" is a bit draining.
  • Now that buffs have been nerfed, raising his Fundamentals have become more important than before, since we're limited in how much we can raise the Fundamentals with Sealing.
  • Higher combat stats means that Hazou can survive random encounters (like the Ultra Lethal Crystal Cave) better. Akane was a solid special-jonin in combat strength, and had all of our buffs, and she still got flattened by a random encounter (assuming we're wrong about the conspiracy)
  • Hazou taking Consequences every time he gets into combat is both amusing and frustrating
  • Gotta show Mari that we listen to her sometimes, lol
I mean...I don't disagree that Hazou needs more survivability to do missions. But at the same time, I also feel that he's in this position where he's too valuable to go off and do missions, and training Sealing-related skills and jutsu would be more valuable.

Also I'm still in the missing-nin stage where we want to avoid combat at all times no matter how powerful we are.
 
I mean...I don't disagree that Hazou needs more survivability to do missions. But at the same time, I also feel that he's in this position where he's too valuable to go off and do missions, and training Sealing-related skills and jutsu would be more valuable.

Also I'm still in the missing-nin stage where we want to avoid combat at all times no matter how powerful we are.
My concern with that is that combat does [not] always happen on our terms, and that we should raise his combat stats as a matter of survivability.

Jiraiya might have said that "seals will cover a wide variety of sins," but buffs have been nerfed, and Hazou's rocking high genin/fresh chunnin combat stats as a special jonin.
 
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My concern with that is that combat does always happen on our terms, and that we should raise his combat stats as a matter of survivability.

Jiraiya might have said that "seals will cover a wide variety of sins," but buffs have been nerfed, and Hazou's rocking high genin/fresh chunnin combat stats as a special jonin.
This is true; however, if we treat Hazou as a stay-at-home sealmaster, he's not going to take missions outside of Leaf and the combat-related threats that he would face while in Leaf would be so far outside his ability to handle that leveling Athletics/Alertness as has been proposed will not be enough to keep him alive.

Yes, there's the Conclave, and that is an argument for Hazou leveling himself up; but IIRC we're wrapping up the Conclave at this point and Hazou doesn't need to do much more than support Enma. The Dragonwar...Hazou's not fighting a Dragon. He's fighting the Great Seal (metaphorically).
 
Not to be arrogant about it, but unless he's a genius on the level of Jiraiya or Hazou, and he's not - Hazou would have noticed - he doesn't have much to contribute at this point. Strictly essie territory.
Yeah, unless he gets the scroll his participation would be minor. He might be able contribute more by accessing those Hag records on the Sage. We should probably give him Cannai's poem just in case he can do something with it or point us in the right direction. Couldn't hurt to put a line about it in a plan.
 
I mean...I don't disagree that Hazou needs more survivability to do missions. But at the same time, I also feel that he's in this position where he's too valuable to go off and do missions, and training Sealing-related skills and jutsu would be more valuable.

Also I'm still in the missing-nin stage where we want to avoid combat at all times no matter how powerful we are.
I don't want to do combat missions before we have a full suite of buff seals, but combat stagnancy means that we have to do combat missions if we want to get meaningful amounts of XP.
 
To give my own two cents:

On the one hand we haven't been grabbing everyone's techniques until recently. This is something that early adoptees are likely to have told non-adopted estate ninja. It was one of the (many) ways we were different from other Clans. We were also always very friendly towards the Clanless and later the KEI organization they formed to support their interests. It's likely that some of the techniques our adoptees learned were learned from other Clanless that either are still alive or also taught other people we haven't adopted. And with the KEI pooling these techniques might now be a KEI asset and our adoptees already felt reluctant at leaving the KEI behind and "betraying" it, but as I said above, we didn't pressure them into giving up their techniques.
Now we unilaterally changed that policy, without a speech or discussion or anything like it. Just by decree. Now to be fair, that's largely due to game mechanics.

On the other hand however, other Clans do in fact not respect Clanless secrets. They may or may not have negotiated leaving some things up to the adopted ninja when it came to when and how to share, but they did indeed hold all the cards and before the rise of the KEI they were one of very few ways for the average Clanless to escape poverty. So yes, Clanless resented it, but they likely knew that being adopted meant betraying their fellow Clanless and ended up paying that price anyway. This, however, was before Clanless solidarity and collective bargaining became what it is today.
Beyond just tradition, there is also the fact that the Clan is in fact supposed to be family and we have shared our techniques with the adoptees as well. And there's little worse than Leaf losing the technique forever, which is not unlikely, given the ninja death rate.

If we can/could change the policy, here's what I would do: Gokētsu ninja are allowed to keep a technique secret from the rest of the Clan for as long as they can point at another Leaf ninja who still knows it. And as long as they are not willing to teach it to their Clan in general, they are also not allowed to teach it to anyone else, not even their own children. There will be no secrets-based branch families.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped How much has our policy change already gone into effect. Have ninja already been grumblingly pressured to put their knowledge in the vault and have other ninja already used said vault to copy their techniques?

If not much irreversible "damage" has been done yet, could we just sit all our ninja together and see what they have to say on the matter, potentially reversing it?
 
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I don't want to do combat missions before we have a full suite of buff seals, but combat stagnancy means that we have to do combat missions if we want to get meaningful amounts of XP.
This is also true, though I would point out that Hazou doesn't need to get better at combat so much as he needs to engage in combat at his current level of competency.
 
On the one hand we haven't been grabbing everyone's techniques until recently. This is something that early adoptees are likely to have told non-adopted estate ninja. It was one of the (many) ways we were different from other Clans. We were also always very friendly towards the Clanless and later the KEI organization they formed to support their interests. It's likely that some of the techniques our adoptees learned were learned from other Clanless that either are still alive or also taught other people we haven't adopted. And with the KEI pooling these techniques might now be a KEI asset and our adoptees already felt reluctant at leaving the KEI behind and "betraying" it, but as I said above, we didn't pressure them into giving up their techniques.
Now we unilaterally changed that policy, without a speech or discussion or anything like it. Just by decree. Now to be fair, that's largely due to game mechanics.
I don't think we've adopted anyone since the KEI jutsu exchange got going. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. @Inferno Vulpix you got that timeline?
 
This is also true, though I would point out that Hazou doesn't need to get better at combat so much as he needs to engage in combat at his current level of competency.
Our low Alt means we underperform at our current level of competency. Fixing that would make us hit harder for our level. Which IMO is a good way to make unstagnating less difficult.
 
Our low Alt means we underperform at our current level of competency. Fixing that would make us hit harder for our level. Which IMO is a good way to make unstagnating less difficult.
I am confused. My understanding is that if we raised our Alertness, our competency would increase, and therefore the threats we would need to face to unstagnate would...also increase?
 
Raising Combat stats is 100% the right think to do in preparation of unstagnating in our combat domain for two huge reasons. One the QMs are not going to actively try and screw us over. If we level alertness and athletics to 39 we won't have to fight a Jounin instead of a Chunnin to unstagnate. Two and more importantly we can't control the level of opposition we're going to face. We are going to go out and look for trouble and if we wind up running into a Jounin we die if we aren't prepared.
 
I am confused. My understanding is that if we raised our Alertness, our competency would increase, and therefore the threats we would need to face to unstagnate would...also increase?
If Hazou's a "middling to strong chuunin" but still has genin Alertness, every single peer he'd fight would go first. Increasing his Alertness to level appropriate condition doesn't make him stop being a middling-to-strong chuunin by itself imo, it would just make him more prepared against peers. However, yes, in theory raising combat skills means the enemies get approximately as much stronger TO UNSTAGNATE. When you're not trying to unstagnate, AKA 99% of the time, you instead benefit from not getting your ass handed to you as easily by Cave Golems or color cabal ninja.

We're going to need to leave Leaf multiple times to go to the rift at minimum, if not taking trips to the honey cave or whatever. And the whole point of combat preparedness is that you don't know when you're going to get in a fight, so you want those things in advance.
 
I am confused. My understanding is that if we raised our Alertness, our competency would increase, and therefore the threats we would need to face to unstagnate would...also increase?
If Hazou does not raise Alt to he needs to fight mid-low chunin opponents to unstagnate, he loses initiative in those fights, does not get MARS and very possibly takes Consequences, burns FP before the start of his turn.

If he does raise Alt to 50, he needs to fight mid-chunin opponents. He wins initiative, gets MARS, inflicts a shit ton of debuffs on them and very likely has an excellent first turn, inflicting Consequences on them or forcing them to burn a bunch of FP.

It's of outsized effect on his combat effectiveness because of MARS.
 
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My understanding is that both Alertness and Caligraphy unbottleneck us in important ways.

Alertness lets Hazou act first, and because of Mars this lets him get off like 3 turns worth of actions before the other guy goes once. Because early advantages tend to snowball, this is a big deal.

Caligraphy lets an army of Hazouclones quickly and safely tear through our Chunin-level sealing backlog. Because we have way more good ideas than we have time to persue, this lets us fully exploit our main advantage(creative sealing).

Is that about right? Does anyone want to dispute/correct my understanding?
 
[ ] Action Plan: Seals, Trade Deals, and Reaching for the Heavens
Words: <350
  • Ino and the sale of Hazou's personal Goo Bomb seals
    • Internally:
      • Put on "Goketsu Clan Head" Hat.
      • The Yamanaka Clan Head wants a commission that eats into our best sealmaster's valuable time. Luckily, it's prosocial in intent, and our clans are allied. Allowances can be made where they might otherwise not be.
      • Trade in (and assume) good faith.
    • Initial Proposal (sanity checked by Mari)
      • Opsec Precautions:
        • The Yamanaka Clan promises not to sell them, reverse engineer them, etc.
      • Supply...
        • Genin-use only
        • Hazou and Ino come to an agreement about a reasonable allotment of monthly Goo Bomb seals.
          • (be willing to negotiate up to an in-character reasonable amount, given Hazou's time constraints)
        • Goketsu Hazou will provide a backstock on the Goketsu Estate so that, should he be unavailable to resupply a monthly allotment, the Yamanaka Clan aren't inconvenienced.
      • Duration
        • One Year
        • Revisit the deal, afterwards.
      • Payment
        • We don't really need cash, so... what're the Yamanaka Clan offering?
    • Let Hazou-pilot and Ino take it from there.
  • Noburi
    • Now that the Hospital has slowed down, would you be willing to take a couple of weeks off to read the medical lootboxes?
      • You impressed Tsunade, but now it's time to blow her expectations out of the water!
      • When we see her next, she'll be begging to take you on as an apprentice!
    • Also, ask Noburi...
      • Would experimenting on chakra beasts be a useful gateway into opening a human tesk... tek... [chakra gate]?
      • To test if sealing an object sterilizes it (spirits are questionably alive)
      • Whether Arachnid Silk bandages would be an improvement for the hospital?
        • If so, donate a lot. We have ES50 and can afford to take a temporary hit on Arachnid Silk Trade.
  • Offscreen
    • Sasha
      • Ask her native Element.
        • If she hasn't learned it yet in the Academy, ask Mari to bribe whomever needs to be bribed so Sasha can learn what Element she is early.
          • If Mari thinks he's ready, Haru can handle that.
      • Ask what specialization she's considering
    • Sealing
      • Shadow Clone: Finish Minato Seal 7, continue to Minato Seal 8
      • Prime: Rocket Boots
 
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We need to finish MS7 and start working on MS8. My preference is that on the other SSA branch we work on RBs and then RRBs to unstagnate. Then do 4SOP after we complete RRBs
I could be convinced either way, but it's been mentioned in the discord that working on 4SOP means that if the Hag or Minami Clan try to mess with the Goketsu Clan, Hazou can go to Asuma and say "I've been trying to work on that seal for the Tower, but these two are preventing that from happening. Plz help?"
 
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