Sudden idea without thoughts to the consequences: What if we start a rumor that Honami's baby daddy is big on the ice-moving business, and he's paying for the baby by giving them stupid cheap deals on ice?

Hot Springs ninja could call bullshit on that since they would presumably know all of father's techniques and they would be the ones most likely hired to investigate.

Also, there is currently no way for civilians to actually move ice long distances profitably. If we claim he is in the local ice business her competitors will be able to check to see if the ice businesses were more productive than usual and then see where all of the ice came from.

If we import the ice we might also have to worry about the tech level of chemistry being high enough that they could test the water to see where it comes from. Or they might notice a difference in taste from the imported ice and grow suspicious from there.

I'm glad we could get the conversation started on this so early. It's going to be tricky to pull off by our deadline.
 
Dictator4Hire's reasoning is the same kind of reasoning that got ninjas to go to war with each other forever in the first place.

To a degree I agree that eliminating potential threats is not a viable sustainable option. It can make our team more secure, but we don't have to worry about our reputation or politics so long as we remain under the radar. We would not be killing everyone who could maybe be a threat someday, only the ones who would know too much to expose our operations.

Until the day comes that we can openly operate without fear of reprisal by Zabuza or worse, secrecy is our most precious and effective line of defense. Anything that compromises our fragile secrecy (since it was already heavily cracked back in the Liberator village) has to heavily outweigh the risks of alerting hunter-nin to our continued existence.

Stop trying to backstab and kill every threat you see.

I do not want to actually have to go through with killing anyone if we do not have to. However, I do believe in planning for all likely possibilities, especially our worst case scenarios and how to mitigate them. NASA makes at least two folders for every launch they make, one blue and one red. The blue one gets read to the press when the launch is a success. The red folder gets read when the launch fails. NASA writes the red folder because even with all of their expertise and safety checks people can still die riding a tank of high explosives into a vacuum. When tragedy strikes it is extremely important to have some contingency in place to fall back on so that one does not have to think too hard about what they have to do next. Doubly so when betrayal happens as that is an emotional blow to a person's mental well-being as well.

Furthermore, anyone we recruit needs to be disposable enough that their loss will not cause all of our efforts to be wasted. Yes, thinking about people in terms of their value to you as an object in your organization is something that only cold-hearted people can do, but it is still necessary. Will we give up on our goals if Akane, Keiko, Kagome, Mari, or Noburi dies? Would we mourn as much for Honami as we did for Shikigami if she dies too?

Bad things will almost certainly happen to us again before we achieve any long term goals. I am simply trying to ease the burden now before we are explosively thrown into another do or die situation and watch as the dice fail us when it really matters.

If we didn't leave the swamp with Mari and betray everyone else in there by abandoning them, we would have been killed by the Leaf-Mist coalition.

If we had been found by any other S-rank ninja instead of Jiraiya back in Yuni, we would all have been dead.

If we didn't have Roki and Akane back at the end of the Liberator village, at least one of our preteens would be dead.

If we didn't prepare a metric fuck ton of seal defenses back in Hill Billy Mountain, the 50+ dice Tac move tapirs would have turned us into paste.

If we do not prepare some sort of contingency for dealing with the very likely chance of a merchant getting too greed for his own good, we will lose months of establishing a network at best or all die at worst. If you can think of a better way for us to enforce security in dire straits other than killing treacherous or compromised operatives, I would love to hear it.

I simply want to make sure Hazou and friends stay safe by staying concealed. Yes, it's a shitty situation and solution, but it's the best practical course of action I can think of at the moment. Mind-wiping techniques would be better, but Mari refuses, so this is the next 'best' thing. All of the security measures I have proposed are designed to prevent betrayal from happening in the first place, but if it does happen, I want to be prepared with hardly any courses of action being preemptive strikes, but still using them when absolutely necessary and unavoidable, nothing more.
 
I thought thermostat-no-jutsu only affected the local air, and the rest of the material in the area was affected by standard heat transfer
Mmm maybe - it says the temperature of an area. What if there's no air in the sphere being affected?

Actually, @eaglejarl @Velorien can Akane choose to affect non-spherical areas with EM, or areas of less than her maximal volume?

Hot Springs ninja could call bullshit on that since they would presumably know all of father's techniques and they would be the ones most likely hired to investigate.
I agree with your other points, but do the Hot Springs ninja even know the dad has a kid? Presumably Honami has been keeping that as secret as possible

As a native German speaker, I can confirm that " horroramüsiert" is a valid construction.
Is the other way round acceptable?
 
I agree with your other points, but do the Hot Springs ninja even know the dad has a kid? Presumably Honami has been keeping that as secret as possible

Honami initially assumed that Hazou was from the father's clan when she first broke Hazou's henge. Depending on how the bloodline itself affects the child's development, it may be painfully obvious that the child is special just from her mannerisms, like Hazou was when he was a toddler. Or a Hot Springs sensor ninja could detect a chakra signature similar to one from the father's clan.

Am I sure? No, but I think it's fairly obvious that I tend to err on the side of caution. :p
 
Your mission, received from a nondescript man in a perfectly ordinary room in a typical inn, is to retrieve cyphered information in physical form (likely but not guaranteed to be a scroll) from an individual staying at the Mizutani Hot Springs within a certain time window. The target will be identifiable by a piece of red and green cloth, which they will be wearing somewhere on their head or neck at all times.

You will receive a bonus if the information is obtained without alerting anyone, but the client does not object to torturing the information out of the target should it prove necessary.
Hmm. Admittedly, we went into this mission a bit slapdash. But in the future, we probably should only accept missions from vetted clients.

Like, it's possible that the info in this scroll will get a whole village of innocent civilians killed, and we wouldn't know till long afterwards, if ever. Or, if the mission is revealed to contradict the team's goals mid-battle, that could be a troublesome distraction.
 
Hmm. Admittedly, we went into this mission a bit slapdash. But in the future, we probably should only accept missions from vetted clients.

Like, it's possible that the info in this scroll will get a whole village of innocent civilians killed, and we wouldn't know till long afterwards, if ever. Or, if the mission is revealed to contradict the team's goals mid-battle, that could be a troublesome distraction.
It's worth noting that we have someone who worked in the field of cryptography that might be able to decode it. And regardless, I think it might be well within our interests to send a copy to Jiraiya if we do not meet with him sooner.
 
It's worth noting that we have someone who worked in the field of cryptography that might be able to decode it. And regardless, I think it might be well within our interests to send a copy to Jiraiya if we do not meet with him sooner.
I support decrypting it iff we expect we can reliably make the seal look like it hasn't been opened, and if we only decode from a copy initially stored in Iron Nerve rather than a real one so that we don't have a copy on us when we get paid.
 
As a native German speaker, I can confirm that " horroramüsiert" is a valid construction.
Is the other way round acceptable?

It's acceptable, but it sounds odd to me.

Also, note that the last word is the "root", so "horroramüsiert" means amused in a horrifying way, but "Amüsierthorror" (which is a noun, BTW) means amused horror, which doesn't make a lot of sense and is definitely not what was meant.
 
I support decrypting it iff we expect we can reliably make the seal look like it hasn't been opened, and if we only decode from a copy initially stored in Iron Nerve rather than a real one so that we don't have a copy on us when we get paid.
Well, naturally. I'm... kind of conflicted on whether we even want to give it back to the guy? I mean, he's pretty sketchy, and if all he's offering is money...
 
It's acceptable, but it sounds odd to me.

Also, note that the last word is the "root", so "horroramüsiert" means amused in a horrifying way, but "Amüsierthorror" (which is a noun, BTW) means amused horror, which doesn't make a lot of sense and is definitely not what was meant.

Hmm, how would you conjugate it to get "horrified in an amusing way"?
 
Well. That kind of hurt the theory that the Yellow Flash is using self summoning.
Long distance Kage Bunshin are still pretty badass.

e: It's a pity there's no way in hell we'll ever get the chance to look at the summons' side of the summon scroll, as I'm sure their scroll is different. We'll probably need to get our own summons to do that much.
e2: We should still look into seeing if there's any way we can allow her summons to reverse summon us in spite of only having one summoner.
e3: ...I'm kind of curious how far from the median Kagome's paranoia is for a sealmaster as compared to any other ninja.
 
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Well. That kind of hurt the theory that the Yellow Flash is using self summoning.
FUCK, I knew there was something else bothering me about that section. It may still be that the hiraishin user gets reverse summoned and just picks one of their beacons to be summoned to, but this new info seems like pretty good evidence that teleportation is just raw spacetime manipulation.

E:
I'm kind of curious how far from the median Kagome's paranoia is for a sealmaster as compared to any other ninja.
We can check how paranoid the pangolin sealers are when we eventually get to talk to them, maybe?
 
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FUCK, I knew there was something else bothering me about that section. It may still be that the hiraishin user gets reverse summoned and just picks one of their beacons to be summoned to, but this new info seems like pretty good evidence that teleportation is just raw spacetime manipulation.

E:

We can check how paranoid the pangolin sealers are when we eventually get to talk to them, maybe?
That's exactly where my thoughts were going. My thoughts went: "Huh, getting a look at the pangolinside summon seal would be great, but they wouldn't let us for anything, and it'd be disingenuous to ask for 'just a look'. I wonder what their sealmasters are like. Oh, they'd probably be more comfortable on their terms; I know Kagome is. I wonder if we can get brought over there. Huh, I wonder if they're as paranoid as he is..."
 
It's acceptable, but it sounds odd to me.

Also, note that the last word is the "root", so "horroramüsiert" means amused in a horrifying way, but "Amüsierthorror" (which is a noun, BTW) means amused horror, which doesn't make a lot of sense and is definitely not what was meant.
Hmm, how would you conjugate it to get "horrified in an amusing way"?
Isn't that what "amused horror" would be? Like, "amused in a horrifying way" to me sounds like someone enjoying a genuinely bad thing (serial killer laughing as she slits someone's throat, for ex).

Whereas "horrified in an amusing way" would be like when you play a really dark Cards Against Humanity combo and everyone around the table recoils but also laughs really hard, which is also how I picture "amused horror" - like "wow, it's messed up that I enjoy this"
 
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You think too small. Fill a box (or a pot, or whatever) with water and freeze it, then take the ice out and seal it. Done.
I cannot imagine how these weird interactions could not be prevented via sealing. GMs have explicitly stated that the "temperature reduces to normal" is caused by normal thermodynamics and thus wouldn't melt any faster than a normal block of 0C water being suddenly put into a room temperature environment. Sealing (isolating the ice in its own timeless dimension) the ice wouldn't cause the ice to melt. AFTER the ice is taken back out then yes I can see it melting. But it's supposed to do that anyway. If you're worried about the jutsu's chakra interacting with the sealing scroll then wait for the jutsu to cease and seal the ice immediately after.

Saving some time for description searchers:

Ok, first off, some clarifications we got from previous attempts to munchkin the ability:

Your chakra is constantly maintaining the effect. Your skill is only sufficient to make this go so far, so if you withdraw the chakra and then put it in again, you'll still only achieve what you did originally.

The technique changes the ambient temperature of the air - it affects the insides of creatures, and the insides of containers, only as an indirect result of this effect. (and in case you're wondering, no one has tried it underwater or in other nonstandard environments)

So, we can't just use it on water in a pot. We might be able to use it on water in a lake or stream, but we've never tried, so we don't know.

The bit about chakra maintaining the effect came about because we kept trying to find ways to stack the jutsu, including cancelling it and then using it again before the temperature changed back to normal. So even if we can get some ice by direct application on water, it still has her chakra in it until it turns back into water. Also, my read of the above is that the temperature return happens at the rate the chakra leaches out of the material, and explicitly not at the rate of thermodynamic equilibrium.

We can still use EM to create usable ice, but the only way we actually know that we can do it is to put water in a room and keep the room cold enough for long enough that it freezes hard, and that's likely going to require either enough seed ice to make a cold room and/or more ranks in EM.
 
I keep going back, re-reading the "Storming Sound" omake, and being ridiculously amused. Here are some copy edits:

The power of..."
Kimimmaro's eyes widened.
"Uh- Shit. Just umm... go. The first door on the left. I won't stop you. Just... Go."

New line after "power of..."

No new line after "widened."

Orochimaru blinked.
"I told that boy to stop stealing my lines."
He sighed. "To business, then. What. Do. You. Want?"

New lines after "blinked" and "lines."

Got you, you bastard!'
Noburi launched a water whip at that

Either add or remove a new line after "bastard". (It's a stylistic choice.) Either way, use italics for thoughts instead of single quotes. Or just leave unmarked -- that's acceptable too.

exist in nature) that things had gotten interesting.
The poison gas,

New line after "interesting".

that crossed its radius.
The Genjutsu Seals,

And "radius".

Thank you!
*reads*
Wait what it's almost middle of March already?!
How did I lose two weeks >_<
Oh this is not good, not good...

"I told you!" Kagome screamed. "I told you that playing around with storage scrolls was dangerous! They warp space and stop time, you stinking numbskull! You stinking stinker of a stinking nitwit! I told you and told you, but do you listen? Nooooo! No, you do not, because you're a stinking nitwit stinker! You do not listen and now it's March!"
 
Awww yisss, PC sweet PC. Words incoming :D
Sorry if this is slowpoke.jpg...but I have a question.

Did Hazou just lose in close quarter combat against an untrained and very pregnant civilian...twice?

EDIT: I mean, I suppose it's nice that our potential associate is competent (she clearly has more social dice than Hazou), but I can't help but feel that we will be hearing about this a lot once Mari gets around to sharing the story. :(
This is kind of a slowpoke answer, esp. considering the update, hope you don't mind me picking this up, but Hazou didn't lose in CQC at all. He got to her faster than she could scream, that's pretty damn cool. As for social, @Velorien said that you roll diplomacy vs someone when you're trying to convince them of something they are against. Lack of dice rolls was good in our case, as it was another hint that Honami was willing to go along with our plan. Compare to telling her we're here to steal from a guest :>

And I have been purposefully controversial recently just to get people to respond. If people couldn't make a logical argument to not kill Honami and her unborn child, I'd be disappointed. Emotional arguments are bad because they lead to poorly thought-out decisions. Gotta challenge the hivemind's beliefs sometimes just to keep things fresh and interesting.
I did begin to wonder about two pages into that discussion why you were so set on throwing away all previous character development, but I figured this thread was too decent for this sort of baiting.

:V Shows what I know :V

Eh, saves me the effort of making another speech on the subject.
Hazou glanced at Inoue-sensei, but got only an eye-smile in return.
Oh noes, Kakashi confirmed! Dispell, quick!
"I don't know," Hazou said. "What do you hear?"
Good stuff, apparently :}
"Um," Hazou said, thinking about it. "Not if you need it in one piece. Our storage scrolls won't take more than a hundred kilos. We might be able to find some bigger ones, though." He was careful to say 'find' instead of 'make'. Granted, it would need some research, but it shouldn't be hard to make higher-capacity scrolls.
It's nice to hear Hazou estimate the complexity of seal modification. Also nice to see him so confident in his skills.
—she held out a dainty, adorably non-combat-ready fist—
So cute, I love this description. I bet if she tried to punch someone, she'd tuck her thumb in :3

Possible Future Hazou: Are you sure you want to threaten us, a team of highly skilled magical kung fu battle wizards?
Nothing wrong with translation convention, but I really wanna know how the original went :D

Inoue, Awareness: ?d100: 735*hurls cursed dice out window*
Last we saw, Mari had 18 dice in awareness. Are we sure that malus was for physical skills only?
Inoue, Deception: ?d100: 1,044 Okay, maybe this is selection bias on my part. I'm going to start keeping track. Low:2, High:0
Soooo, 1k+ on deception is a low enough roll for Mari to be notable. Are we looking at 23-25 Dec dice here?
"You don't think..." Hazou began before pausing. They were going to laugh at him, he was sure of it. Still, better to be embarrassed than right about this. He took a deep breath and gathered his courage.
You go boy. Think of it as writing down random ideas for Sealing. Might be stupid, might be not. No harm in asking the question.
Inoue, Hair-Ruffle no Jutsu: ?d100: 806Low:3, High: 0

Hazou, dodge Hair-Ruffle no Jutsu: 15d100: 652
806? That's just sad. If she rolled this low last time, Hazou would've dodged. I can only hope Mari is getting the bad rolls out of the way in preparation for real challenge.

He yanked his hand out of the water as though he'd been burned and forced himself not to run.

Oh yeah, Joutaro was a ninja.
So, how large are his reserves compared to Inoue "I lolspam clones by dozens in enemy territory" Mari?

Awesome chapter @eaglejarl, hope the talking didn't bore you. Me, I'm loving how hands-on the resort scene is playing out, I've said it before but I missed this kind of personal touch.

Honami is a treasure, and I foresee a lot of using each other to mutual satisfaction and betterment in the future. (E: What? Not like that! You get your mind out of gutter now!)

Glad to hear the doges will be okay, too!
 
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I did begin to wonder about two pages into that discussion why you were so set on throwing away all previous character development, but I figured this thread was too decent for this sort of baiting.

:V Shows what I know :V

Eh, saves me the effort of making another speech on the subject.

Mmmmmmmmm characters can only develop if they are alive (necromancy shenanigans nonewithstanding).

I'd still sleep easier if I knew we plugged the leak, but for some reason people value this NPC's life more than Hazou's safety. I find it odd how we are so willing to let her live and even go on to help her when we had no qualms about handing over our client to the Yakuza back in Yuni. She broke a ninja's disguise and then didn't think any farther past that besides yelling for help. That kind of half-baked planning is extremely dangerous; it's like going to all of the trouble to refine some uranium and then forgetting that you need a way to shield yourself from the radiation.

We need to coach her in proper planning to prevent such disasters, but at the same time if she ever wants to betray us for whatever reason it would make her much harder to pacify.

Actually, we should coach the entire team about the importance of contingencies and how they can apply to multiple things, not just a mission plan. Simple stuff like having at least one backup mundane disguise under a henge, ways to defend yourself if you find yourself in an ordinarily disadvantageous position outside of basic E&E, learning the basics of improvisation so when shit hits the fan you can adapt ASAP, etc. We can't rely on Keiko to fix all the holes in our plans if simple mistakes can still creep up on us like this.

We have to make the lists longer guys. It's the only way to be sure. :p

Fake edit: Or we could have Hazou ask every one of his teammates what he usually forgets when he makes a list, so he can compile it all together in another list, so when we have to make a new list for something else we have a list that lists all of the minor details we normally miss in our lists on a meta-list.

But wait! There's more!

After we test out the meta-list we can then go back with a checklist to review what we did and did not remember when we used our meta-list when we made that new list. So then we can go over the checklist with our teammates to see if they have any additional input so we can then update the meta-list with the checklist and their help. However, the problem may be with our team's communication skills since completely thorough lists are infallible, so we need to give them each a list of biases they might have to keep in mind while checking our lists. Of course, we will first have to list whatever we think might be disrupting our completely clear communication, so we can use the meta-list on those lists to ensure that said lists about our teammates issues with lists can be listed for when we really need them: namely, making sure that the checklist for the meta-list is as thorough as possible.

But I know what you're thinking: "That's circular logic! You can't use the meta-list to make the checklists that list our teammates' issues with lists when the whole point of the personalized lists is to check the checklist of the meta-list!"

And you, dear brave, clever reader, are right! In practice we have to start somewhere even if the starting meta-list (or any list in the cycle really) isn't quite up to snuff yet. So, once we actually start this beautiful cycle of list refinement we can list each iteration of the cycle to see how each list, meta-list, and checklist changes as our team embraces the glory that is listing as much as we can about making lists.

So we start with a rough meta-list to create some basic personalized lists which then help us refine the checklist which will then fix the major flaws in the meta-list. While we do this we list each iteration of the list cycle to see how we can improve the process with more lists. We can also keep an eye on our teammates as we go through the process in case we need to list something new on their personal list as we go through the list cycle repeatedly.

Once we reach the point that the lists can no longer correct themselves, we will be left with the Holy Grail of Lists. A list so pure and thorough that when followed to the last letter we can never fail again for lack of proper lists. We will have listed everything so nothing could ever go wrong again and because this list will be so flawless we could directly transcribe it into a seal to create the List Singularity; a pure list would have pure logic and with Hazou's perfect list transcribing ability, also known as the Iron Nerve, he would not have to worry about human error sullying the list as he writes it down. At that point I have no idea what would happen next, except that it would be perfect beyond my wildest dreams because of all of the lists that went into making this ultimate list, essentially a manufactured God of Lists, made with lists for lists.

I have a feeling though that all of our problems are Noburi's fault though. He once refused one of our beautiful precious lists! Once we have summoned the God of Lists to our mortal realm said god can show the heretic Noburi exactly where said heretic went wrong by using a list. It would be poetic justice for his crimes against list-kind.

I could list reasons for the benefits of using lists in list form all day, but after all this wonderful talking about lists I am ironically feeling a bit listless, so I'm going to call this a day for shitposting... for now.

Let me know if you need me to explain this list refinement process more thoroughly, but it would help if you clearly organized it, like in a list.

Speaking of likes and lists, did I mention I like lists?

I like lists.
 
Actually, let me be more direct about this. I generally try not to say anything that would affect player agency, but apparently I need to throw the coffee cup again. @Dictator4Hire, this is for you in particular but is information for the entire thread. The tl;dr is "Don't be gratuitously evil (e.g. killing pregnant women for no useful reason) because it makes me physically uncomfortable and I don't want to write for that."

I'm spoilering it so that people who are satisfied with the tl;dr can move on to the next post instead of listening to me rant.

The discussion about killing Honami is making me physically uncomfortable. Remember about 600 pages ago when I said this?

I don't want to write a quest for evil characters. If you want to play Robin Hood, or be assassins for hire, or be thieves, great. If the group starts regularly choosing options that involve gratuitous murder, I quit.

I meant it. I would find writing that quest very disturbing, just as I am finding your arguments about killing pregnant women for no good reason disturbing. I spend about 8 hours, sometimes more, writing each update. I burn a lot more hours than that every week following the thread and answering questions. I am not interested in putting in that kind of time for something that makes me queasy.

For in-character reasons why this would be a bad plan, let me go down the list:

  • If your argument is "we need to kill her because she saw our face and could tell people that we're alive", then that's pointless. Everyone knows you're alive -- there are literally wanted posters of your faces.
  • If your argument is "we need to kill her because if we recruit her as an agent and she knows who we are then she could rat us out and someone could be waiting for us when we make contact with her", then that too is pointless. If you're making direct contact with your agents, then any of them could rat you out and have an ambush waiting. If you're making indirect contact (e.g. messages sent by 3rd parties or through dead-drops) then you can use the same tactics with her. Or, alternatively, just don't recruit her.
  • It would carry massive reputational costs with your "family." Akane would be horrified. Inoue-sensei, whose entire character arc is about wanting to become less of a murderous evil person, would be revolted. Keiko would point out that the kind of people you are suggesting recruiting (i.e. disposable scum) are the same kind of people that Jiraiya and other spymasters recruit. Killing too many people like that means that you'll probably be killing Jiraiya's agents...or Pein's...or whoever the spymasters for the other villages are. At some point you will kill enough of those people that the S-rank badass in charge of the network will decide it's worth his time to hunt you down and make a soup tureen out of your skull.

In summary: cut it out.
 
So wait.

When Keiko goes to the summon realm is she actually going or projecting a kage bunshin avatar?

If the former, why does the summoning scroll do two things that could more easily be explained by one?

If the latter, how did Kagome explain Keiko just standing still with a vacant expression/collapsing unconscious, as her mind was channelled into her avatar, to the elders?
 
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