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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Eisenhelm said:
That and because they were in the middle of a war gamabunta would have been an odvious and unmissable target that would have lasted a couple of seconds at most.
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Exactly! Plus, Chakra is finite. I'd say they're likely fairly expensive. But I'd also say their power to cost is insanely high. If I'm summoning for a giant battle Royale to the death, I'm probably using some function of Power*Power/cost, and I can see them decidedly having the biggest P^2/C.
 
Velorien said:
Hazō ran for his life as, mere metres behind him, the Dragon pursued its rightful prey. The shattering noises of broken branches and the screeching of terrified tree rodents heralded its coming, and Hazō knew without having to be told that his bones would fare no better than the wood if it finally caught him in its maw.
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Oh shit oh shit oh shit something related to Kagome becoming the Spider Summoner went terribly wrong.
Velorien said:
…and Noburi's Humongous Dragon smashed helplessly against the stone at Hazō's back, showering him in chakra construct water that would evaporate with eerie speed by the time Noburi caught up with him.
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I'm furious and relieved.

I'll do a full reaction post later but for now, we have less than 24 hours until voting closes. As such, a simple plan.

[X] Action Plan: Moving Forward
Word count: <300
  • Duration: 10 days.
  • Noburi:
    • ...you're sure you're okay taking on substantial personal risk for SC? We can find another way. Tone: double-checking, brotherly concern.
    • If so, run your plan by Mari. Keep us posted.
  • Kagome:
    • How's Summoning going? Kumokogo likes you.
    • Visit the Great Seal, with Kumokogo's permission.
      • Optimize approach (route, tactics) w/Shikamaru.
      • Take precautions to maximize safety, minimize loss of Arachnid life.
        • Potential threats of note: Kagome might be Dragon-sensitive, Kagome's new to Summoning, the Dragons might be more aggressive.
      • Look at the overall shape of the seal (from above) if you can do so safely. Otherwise, stick to tunnels.
    • Debrief:
      • Do you want to learn Earth Element and try Stoneshaping?
      • Do you have any ideas?
  • Akane
    • Do something Youthful and non-violent together.
    • Tone: gently encouraging Akane to talk to us so we can understand/better support her.
      • Stop talking about this at the first sign it's going badly. Pay attention. Do not argue/debate/fix/speechify.
    • How are you doing? How are you feeling?
    • You've been one of our biggest anchors for a long time. It seems like you've lost yours.
      • What are your other anchors?
    • What makes life worthwhile for you?
      • Throw away realism. What do you want to do?
    • It's okay to have no/vague answers.
    • We love and believe in you. Whatever it takes, we want to help.
    • Perform some cheesy-but-innocuous courtship rituals (heart-shaped chocolates, reciting love poetry).
  • Offscreen:
    • Have Prime + 3 SC read Sealing Notes for nine days (reach Sealing 29). Ask Kagome to help with a prepared MARS attempt on day 10.
    • Spend a day with Ino. Focus on your (individual) relationship with her. Plan activities of varying moods (exciting, calm, romantic), follow her lead.
    • Time allowing, check in with Boss Bear and then visit Mareo if he thinks it wise.
@eaglejarl in light of Mareo telling us to leave and never come back, is putting a visit offscreen appropriate, or should that be onscreen? I can see it going both ways depending on contextual information we don't have access to (e.g., Hazo's assessment of whether the order to GTFO and never return was the product of dementia/passing/something we need to take into careful account before we visit him again). I don't want to offscreen something significant but I want to keep building that relationship.
 
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MMKII said:
"We experienced attacks from multiple JAs, and believe we've isolated criteria under which we can use clan secret stuff to use them to mentally connect with people across dimensions. We think the strength of your bond with Jiraiya might allow making contact with him via your aura."
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This phrasing is a bit less precise and more confident than I think is optimal for the situation. This is very much a 'try everything we can think of just in case some of it helps' experiment, which we think ought to be possible but we have no hard proof.

Specifically, 'believe we've isolated criteria' sounds a lot more like 'I've done the esoteric math and it all checks out' than like 'it's theoretically possible and if anything would pull it off it's this'. If we say it as-is and then the experiment fails, we would essentially have broken a promise.

The current wordcount of the plan is 349 words and I'm not inclined to compact it by another 50 to get the +1 brevity XP, so we have room to expand this out. I recommend:
"We've been hit by plenty of Jounin Auras before, and there's something more than meets the eye going on there. Between that and something clan secret, it might be possible to communicate with someone between Paths while under the effects of an Aura. It's farfetched, but trying crazy things that might just work is Goketsu policy. You in? Your connection with Jiraiya might make all the difference."
This would take it up to 369 words and, in my opinion, make the proposal a lot more honest.

[X] Action Plan: Just Hold On, We're On Our Way
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
This phrasing is a bit less precise and more confident than I think is optimal for the situation. This is very much a 'try everything we can think of just in case some of it helps' experiment, which we think ought to be possible but we have no hard proof.

Specifically, 'believe we've isolated criteria' sounds a lot more like 'I've done the esoteric math and it all checks out' than like 'it's theoretically possible and if anything would pull it off it's this'. If we say it as-is and then the experiment fails, we would essentially have broken a promise.

The current wordcount of the plan is 349 words and I'm not inclined to compact it by another 50 to get the +1 brevity XP, so we have room to expand this out. I recommend:
"We've been hit by plenty of Jounin Auras before, and there's something more than meets the eye going on there. Between that and something clan secret, it might be possible to communicate with someone between Paths while under the effects of an Aura. It's farfetched, but trying crazy things that might just work is Goketsu policy. You in? Your connection with Jiraiya might make all the difference."
This would take it up to 369 words and, in my opinion, make the proposal a lot more honest.

[X] Action Plan: Just Hold On, We're On Our Way
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Thanks for the feedback IV. I think thats pretty reasonable, so I have implemented this suggestion.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
Continue MARS research following SOPs. Explain the idea to Kagome and ask for feedback (useful tags?) and sanity-check as to whether or not you're good enough to pursue this.
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MARS continues to be unsafe for us at our current FP and sealing level. If you add a part about using SC + Prime to read sealing notes the first 9 days, we can make a prepared infusion roll on the 10th day for something that is safe, potentially that button seal we've talked about.

Edit: it is maybe safe for us if Kagome aids us by adding his AB. I would still put it off for the 10th day so we can get enough sealing XP to level sealing to 29.
 
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ProperAttorney said:
The obvious solution, Noburi, is to date your wife. It's a mindset that people fall into in real life, that after you tie the knot, it's a done deal. You don't have to buy your partner flowers or chocolate, don't have to organize surprises for them, etc.

The only thing stoping you from flirting with your partner, writing them poetry, surprising them their favorite pastry, going on new, fun dates, is yourself. Go have fun, go make memories, go flirt with the lady that cares very much about you.
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This.
 
MMKII said:
Beforehand:
  • On second thought Noburi, uh, lets not fuck around with Orochimaru more than absolutely necessary at the moment. Consider that a softly-worded order for the time being.
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This is a good idea. We could also say something like 'hey, run that by Mari?', which would cover both the 'actually this would piss Asuma off' and the 'hmm, Orochimaru? Let's not' options, all without personally whipsawing back and forth in ways that make people question our sanity.
MMKII said:
We want Naruto to blast us, so we can try to astral project to Naruto's loved ones in the afterlife dimension.
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I have plan feedback but a lot of it admittedly boils down to 'I think the core of this idea has serious problems that I don't think can be mitigated'. (I'm always hesitant to give this feedback because I worry it comes across as 'I disagree with you, nyah!' instead of something useful or helpful.) Please feel free to ignore this, or point out the flaws in my logic, or whatever.

Issue 1: we have other irons in the fire and delaying them ten days is probably unwise. Kagome needs to look at the Great Seal. We should probably talk to Akane. This can wait. I realize that 'this can wait' leads to things never being done, but looking at the Great Seal really does seem higher-priority.

Issue 2: I can see a few branching outcomes. Let's assign them all equal probability.

One: Naruto tells us to go fuck ourselves. Hazo is either going to try to do this without the aura (probably won't work IMO) or the plan is just void. This is a negative outcome IMO.
Two: Naruto blasts us and nothing happens. This sours our relationship with him further. This is an unambiguously negative outcome.
Three: he agrees and we get something out of this. That's pretty great!

That's two-thirds odds of a bad outcome, assuming you think that all the outcomes are equally likely. I don't like the risk there, and I think that options one and two are far, far likelier than this working. Mari had a pretty strong bond with Jiriya, and she has an aura. She's also way more tolerant of our bullshit and she's less likely to shove a Rasengan through our chests when she sees us wearing her dead husband's bloody clothes. I'm hard-pressed to come up with someone who has an aura who I think it would be a worse idea to try this with, outside of Orochimaru.
 
ProperAttorney said:
The obvious solution, Noburi, is to date your wife. It's a mindset that people fall into in real life, that after you tie the knot, it's a done deal. You don't have to buy your partner flowers or chocolate, don't have to organize surprises for them, etc.

The only thing stoping you from flirting with your partner, writing them poetry, surprising them their favorite pastry, going on new, fun dates, is yourself. Go have fun, go make memories, go flirt with the lady that cares very much about you.
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While this isn't wrong, will that actually help with trust or make her even more possessive of him? Yuno also never dated anyone else (besides Neji for a political marriage).

Isanites can't divorce someone, now here in Leaf Noburi could. Lot's of fun culture shock.

(I assume Noburi can't just get a concubine without her consent and the ceremony...but still).

FaintlySorcerous said:
This is a good idea. We could also say something like 'hey, run that by Mari?', which would cover both the 'actually this would piss Asuma off' and the 'hmm, Orochimaru? Let's not' options, all without personally whipsawing back and forth in ways that make people question our sanity.
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Talk with Tsunade then. If his Shadow clones are useful than she would probably want him to work more in the hospital.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
One: Naruto tells us to go fuck ourselves. Hazo is either going to try to do this without the aura (probably won't work IMO) or the plan is just void. This is a negative outcome IMO.
Two: Naruto blasts us and nothing happens. This sours our relationship with him further. This is an unambiguously negative outcome.
Three: he agrees and we get something out of this. That's pretty great!

That's two-thirds odds of a bad outcome, assuming you think that all the outcomes are equally likely. I don't like the risk there, and I think that options one and two are far, far likelier than this working. Mari had a pretty strong bond with Jiriya, and she has an aura. She's also way more tolerant of our bullshit and she's less likely to shove a Rasengan through our chests when she sees us wearing her dead husband's bloody clothes. I'm hard-pressed to come up with someone who has an aura who I think it would be a worse idea to try this with, outside of Orochimaru.
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I think we can potentially mitigate this by using Mari as a fill-in if hes entirely unwilling.

So like, we're basically saying "Hey, I need some help with an experiment, and as part of that help, you will get to deck me in the face, no consequences, its totally cool. Are you game?"

At the very least, he gets to punch us in the face. If we frame it this way it doesnt sound so bad from an outcome perspective.
 
[x] Action Plan: Just Hold On, We're On Our Way

Fuck it, we ball

(Also may want to squeeze in a line talking Noburi out of his suicide by surgical knife. His marriage isn't that far gone)
 
ContextBot said:
Talk with Tsunade then. If his Shadow clones are useful than she would probably want him to work more in the hospital.
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If Tsunade saw significant benefit from getting doctors SC they'd have it and be using it a lot; therefore we can assume she doesn't. Noburi's clones would be less useful than normal - they can't really use chakra. We might be able to get her to apply some light pressure because, of the few things his clones are capable of doing, one is 'study MedKnow', but I don't think she's going to be decisive here.
MMKII said:
I think we can potentially mitigate this by using Mari as a fill-in if hes entirely unwilling.
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Can you add this to your plan?
MMKII said:
At the very least, he gets to punch us in the face. If we frame it this way it doesnt sound so bad from an outcome perspective.
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I'm worried he's going to see us, the noted weird heretic, performing weird, heretical rituals with Jiriya's possessions and that will really piss him off. From there, he will do some of the following:
  • Do us serious harm
  • Take Jiriya's possessions away from us
  • Be even more angry with us on an ongoing basis
  • And/or socially sabotage us by spreading word that we're tarnishing the legacy of a Leaf hero by doing weird shit like this
I think that if we're going to make this pitch, we should try to have Sasuke in the room - he can confirm that there is, in fact, a weird rift. And Naruto likes him.

Can we please add a sanity-check to this? I just see it going so wrong in so many different ways.
 
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FaintlySorcerous said:
Can you add this to your plan?

I'm worried he's going to see us, the noted weird heretic, performing weird, heretical rituals with Jiriya's possessions and that will really piss him off. From there, he will do some of the following:
  • Do us serious harm
  • Take Jiriya's possessions away from us
  • Be even more angry with us on an ongoing basis
  • And/or socially sabotage us by spreading word that we're tarnishing the legacy of a Leaf hero by doing weird shit like this.
I think that if we're going to make this pitch, we should try to have Sasuke in the room - he can confirm that there is, in fact, a weird rift. And Naruto likes him.
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I can add/address things when my timer to edit the plan goes off in about 3.5 hours.
 
Ah. A whole dang update dedicated to the Noburi scene I've been longing for. I am quite content. Even that empathy check near the end can't ruin this feeling.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
Oh shit oh shit oh shit something related to Kagome becoming the Spider Summoner went terribly wrong.

I'm furious and relieved.

I'll do a full reaction post later but for now, we have less than 24 hours until voting closes. As such, a simple plan.

[X] Action Plan: Moving Forward
Word count: 282
  • Duration: 10 days.
  • Noburi:
    • ...make sure to run any plans related to getting SC by Mari first, just in case.
  • Kagome:
    • How's Summoning going? Kumokogo likes you.
    • Visit the Great Seal, with Kumokogo's permission.
      • Take precautions to maximize safety and minimize loss of Arachnid life.
        • Potential threats of note: Kagome might be Dragon-sensitive, Kagome's new to Summoning, the Dragons might be more aggressive.
      • Look at the overall shape of the seal (from above) if you can do so safely. Otherwise, stick to tunnels.
    • Debrief:
      • Do you want to learn Earth Element and try Stoneshaping?
      • Do you have any ideas?
  • Akane
    • Do something Youthful and non-violent together.
    • Tone: gently encouraging Akane to talk to us so we can understand/better support her.
      • Stop talking about this at the first sign it's going badly. Pay attention. Do not argue/debate/fix/speechify.
    • How are you doing? How are you feeling?
    • You've been one of our biggest anchors for a long time. It seems like you've lost yours.
      • What are your other anchors?
    • What makes life worthwhile for you?
      • Throw away realism. What do you want to do?
    • It's okay to have no/vague answers.
    • We love and believe in you. Whatever it takes, we want to help.
    • Perform some cheesy-but-innocuous courtship rituals (heart-shaped chocolates, reciting love poetry).
  • Offscreen:
    • Read the Sealing notes. Explain MARS to Kagome and ask for feedback/ideas (useful tags?) and sanity-check whether you're a good enough sealmaster to pursue this.
    • Spend a day with Ino. Focus on your (individual) relationship with her. Plan activities of varying moods (exciting, calm, romantic), follow her lead.
    • Time allowing, check in with Boss Bear and then visit Mareo if he thinks it wise.
@eaglejarl in light of Mareo telling us to leave and never come back, is putting a visit offscreen appropriate, or should that be onscreen? I can see it going both ways depending on contextual information we don't have access to (e.g., Hazo's assessment of whether the order to GTFO and never return was the product of dementia/passing/something we need to take into careful account before we visit him again). I don't want to offscreen something significant but I want to keep building that relationship.
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I feel "Let's sanity check with Mari" doesn't really address the problem of Hazou going "Sure, good idea" to Noburi asking if he should risk getting vivisected. In my reading the problem never was Noburi actually doing the plan, but feeling hurt that Hazou went "Ok, sure" to a crazy Orochimaru-heavy and vivisection-heavy plan.
This would just read as "Hazou wants to be sure" to Noburi, not "Hazou realizes it's a stupid plan". For the rest, it seems a pretty solid plan.
 
Lord Marshal said:
I feel "Let's sanity check with Mari" doesn't really address the problem of Hazou going "Sure, good idea" to Noburi asking if he should risk getting vivisected. In my reading the problem never was Noburi actually doing the plan, but feeling hurt that Hazou went "Ok, sure" to a crazy Orochimaru-heavy and vivisection-heavy plan.
This would just read as "Hazou wants to be sure" to Noburi, not "Hazou realizes it's a stupid plan". For the rest, it seems a pretty solid plan.
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I've added something addressing this. Are there other changes you'd want to see before voting for it?
 
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