1- Our clan is small, and lacks the hoard of shinies, tips, and tricks that other clans have. We're young, scrappy, and hungry, and I worry about giving too many of our clan secrets away. I worry that the future generations of Goketsu (if the world doesn't explode) will suffer for it. We're a young clan, and will be at a disadvantage to most every other clan... But I also recognize that the instinct to hoard knowledge and advantages may be incongruous with Uplift as a philosophy.
I endorse no plan wherein Naruto then gets to share the jutsu with anyone else. Literally just Naruto having it doesn't particularly disadvantage us.
2- Naruto hates Hazou's guts. He's friends with Kei and may be in a romantic relationship with Ami... But Hazou, himself? Loathes. I'm not sure we should hand a knife to someone who wants to stab it in our stomach (but I recognize that Naruto is disinclined to actually stab us... for now).
I think that a more accurate metaphor is that Naruto presently has many knives available and we're handing him a club. His ability to injure us is effectively unchanged, as the number of knives was already at 'mass overkill', but he can now handle enemies who are vulnerable to bludgeoning damage, by which I mean he has new capabilities.
3- Because Naruto hates Hazou, I suspect handing him jutsu would reek of bribery. Which, for obvious reasons, wouldn't help the situation any.
I disagree with this to some extent.

Naruto: "Are you giving this to me so I like you better?"
Hazo: "Honestly, I'm hoping it might help, but really, this is about what's good for Leaf."
Naruto: "I don't believe you."
Hazo: "You have to concede that what's happened here is that I've done something really, really good for Leaf."
Naruto: "I literally don't have to."
Hazo: "Sure, I guess not, but it's the truth. You can do with that what you will, but I don't think you're so stupid as to keep believing a fiction."
4- Naruto is a Jinchuuriki with (what seems to be) functionally infinite chakra, nearly-infinite shadow clones, a wealth of shinies left by his father (4th Hokage, better than Jiraiya, universally loved, respected, and feared), a wealth of shinies left by his mother (heir of Uzu, She of Adamantine Chains, Student of Uzumaki Mito), and all the jutsu Jiraiya left him (which was a whole hecking lot). I'm not sure he needs anything we have.
The word 'need' is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. We don't need it either. If you're saying, 'he is already extremely powerful', sure, but he doesn't have this power and has no way of getting it, given that Jiriya told us that this was a holy grail jutsu.
5- Naruto isn't a Goketsu, and is thus outside of the agreement made to the Pangolins when we received this jutsu. Sure, Kei negotiated for other people learning Pangolin Jutsu for the Condura fight, but we don't know if that was a one-off agreement to fight a common enemy, or if it was a permanent alteration to their deal. Given the Pangolin mindset, I suspect it's the latter.
Kei actually didn't participate in those negotiations - she made a point of not doing so. The Pangolins did, personally, and it was framed as 'good practice haggling'. I think that the Pangolins are open to mutually-beneficial swaps. If someone else came up to them with Skywalkers II, then they wouldn't blink before handing out jutsu.
5.5- As fucked up as the Pangolins are, one's word is sacrosanct on the 7th Path. Deal-breakers and oathbreakers are widely scorned and reviled. Hazou already has enough red ink in his ledger for helping the Pangolins take over the Condors (see: the toads' reaction to hearing Hazou's name from Noburi, Enma and the other clans reluctant to believe Hazou's word about DRAGONWAR, etc). It's lucky enough that Hazou, having taken the blame for Kei no longer supplying the Pangolins with the Skywalkers/skytowers/whatevers (despite their contractual agreement to do so), was still able to sign on with the Dogs. I'd rather not push that too far.
I endorse no action which would violate our contract with the Pangolins - hence, my running this by Kei in the plan I wrote, wherein I assume that if she goes forward with this, she will manage that.
 
I'm totally okay with all of that, only notes (and again, only provided as feedback, plan seems fine as is):

she already thinks we're cheating with a Jiraiya secret, I don't really want to clue her in any more than we already have (at this stage. Eventually I would enjoy her being a a more permanent team member)
The search for Resolve jutsu is in the offscreen section. I think Noumero's plan had an explicit "(covert)" (see quote), versus just the "search around" -- I'd really rather anything that points vaguely in the FOOM direction be explicitly full-OPSEC. Maybe I'm being overly cautious, and maybe it's less relevant because we're actually doing the searching instead of "arranging widespread searching", but still...

relevant plan quote:
  • Arrange widespread (but covert) search for jutsu that temporarily increase mental fortitude (Resolve).
    • Query Kumokogo, Cannai, the Toads and the Pangolins (by proxy).
    • Ask Kei to search the Leaf Library, ask Yuno about (non-secret) Isan jutsu.


It should technically be covered by "update clanmates on 7th path, disseminate info to relevant parties". I don't think we should start branching out on even more projects right now due to dragons etc. but if Noburi wants to tell her about it and she wants to approach us about it, that's fine with me

Seems reasonable, I was mostly worried about it slipping Vel's mind / through the cracks as a result (and such would probably add if you had wordcount to spare), but *shrug* :)
 
I'm totally okay with all of that, only notes (and again, only provided as feedback, plan seems fine as is):


The search for Resolve jutsu is in the offscreen section. I think Noumero's plan had an explicit "(covert)" (see quote), versus just the "search around" -- I'd really rather anything that points vaguely in the FOOM direction be explicitly full-OPSEC. Maybe I'm being overly cautious, and maybe it's less relevant because we're actually doing the searching instead of "arranging widespread searching", but still...

relevant plan quote:





Seems reasonable, I was mostly worried about it slipping Vel's mind / through the cracks as a result (and such would probably add if you had wordcount to spare), but *shrug* :)
Yeah there was some concern that "covert" could be attempted as trying to lie to the bosses, but i think including "maintain opsec" should be fine, I'll add that
 
Yeah there was some concern that "covert" could be attempted as trying to lie to the bosses, but i think including "maintain opsec" should be fine, I'll add that
'Maintaining FOOM OPSEC' seems unnecessary when we consider that the Summons are effectively Kages inside an environment specifically suited to serve them, could we just have this part be for what we delegate to Yuno/Kei?
 
I'd really rather anything that points vaguely in the FOOM direction be explicitly full-OPSEC. Maybe I'm being overly cautious, and maybe it's less relevant because we're actually doing the searching instead of "arranging widespread searching", but still...
I'm in full agreement. The only way FOOM can propel the Gōketsu to power is if it stays in house. We must maintain absolute secrecy.
 
Thank you, QMs. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, with heartfelt emotion so saturated and vibrant that mere, mundane words lack the true ability to lend voice to my depth of gratitude. Again, I thank you.
You are most welcome. Thank you for the kind words.

'if you have a chakra system you don't wash out, you die trying'
WOG having changed on 'it is indeed possible to wash out of the Academy' would undercut this, but I can't find explicit contradictory information, so I figured I'd throw this out there.
This isn't a change, it's a reminder, and the support is in the text if you want to look it up: Academy students don't start learning chakra until their third year of six. The first two years are purely academics, conditioning, etc. In the third year you start learning to control your chakra. Lots of kids wash out in the first two years, no one washes out after the start of the third year, although there sure are a lot of fatal or nearly fatal training accidents.

The Daily Grind, a litRPG web serial which has a normal, healthy triad relationship between major characters.
And it also includes m/m sexual partners, putting it in yet another minority of fiction.

I think there will inevitably be Asuma conversations in the near future, and yeah I don't really want to cram it in right now... There's word count space but there's already a lot of fiddly things the QMs will need to check which I already feel bad about doing :p
This is actually a great time to deal with all the fiddly bits. Any administrivia that needs to get resolved, logistics work that needs to happen onscreen, that kind of thing, you should definitely put it in this plan instead of saving it up for one of my updates later. Soonest begun, soonest done, right? If you get all the small, boring, tedious, mind-numbing stuff out of the way in this update then next one can be vibrant and exciting.

me.throw(
"the bus",
"Velorien"
)
 
I disagree with this to some extent.

Naruto: "Are you giving this to me so I like you better?"
Hazo: "Honestly, I'm hoping it might help, but really, this is about what's good for Leaf."
Naruto: "I don't believe you."
Hazo: "You have to concede that what's happened here is that I've done something really, really good for Leaf."
Naruto: "I literally don't have to."
Hazo: "Sure, I guess not, but it's the truth. You can do with that what you will, but I don't think you're so stupid as to keep believing a fiction."
This reminds me that I find it utterly bizarre that, while not literally everyone, a distressingly large number of powerful and allegedly smart people aren't able to figure out that Hazo is a stream of consciousness let's discuss our options before deciding what we should/shouldn't do and I don't always plot out the implications/consequences before suggesting stuff kind of guy within like 5 minutes of talking to him.

I don't know if that's just hivemind shenanigans or GM interpretation that makes him act like that, but it's really consistent and it's probably the biggest source of disconnect that I felt while binging the quest.
 
This isn't a change, it's a reminder, and the support is in the text if you want to look it up: Academy students don't start learning chakra until their third year of six. The first two years are purely academics, conditioning, etc. In the third year you start learning to control your chakra. Lots of kids wash out in the first two years, no one washes out after the start of the third year, although there sure are a lot of fatal or nearly fatal training accidents.
Outstanding.

Do you have a rough figure for 'lots', either as a percentage or a number?

Do we have a rough idea of how much time Kagome spends with Honoka on a weekly/monthly/etc. basis?
 
This isn't a change, it's a reminder, and the support is in the text if you want to look it up: Academy students don't start learning chakra until their third year of six. The first two years are purely academics, conditioning, etc. In the third year you start learning to control your chakra. Lots of kids wash out in the first two years, no one washes out after the start of the third year, although there sure are a lot of fatal or nearly fatal training accidents.
This actually makes sense, the strength of a village is primarily its S-Rankers and jounin, so there's little point (as the leadership sees it) in investing a bunch of resources in ninja who will just die as genin. Once they've started chakra manipulation I assume they know too much to leave ninja life.

In fact I think we know that the smaller villages don't do this, Leaf only does this because they have the ninja to burn. Snow gets the maximum return on every single ninja child because they have so few.
 
As an idea, maybe we should commute Haru's sentence a bit in exchange for him being the one who (while chakra drained and with someone watching over him of course) goes and makes restitution to the families of the yaks that were killed/injured.

It's already been mentioned that the current punishment is useless. Haru's entire family is civilians, he has a better understanding of what it's like to be a civilian than most people in the Gōketsu. What he doesn't understand is that yaks are people too. Like anyone else who knows how civilians feel, to Haru yaks are at best the boogey men who lurk in dark allies and at worst criminal scum who hurt good people for profit.

So teach him that yaks are people too. Put him in close contact with the families of the people he killed, show him that his actions hurt people. Maybe he'll talk to the families and get a better understanding of who the yakuza were as people.

Probably would look something like this:
  • Have Akane commute length of Haru's sentence if he personally does restitution for yak families
 
Adhoc vote count started by Velorien on Jul 21, 2021 at 7:21 AM, finished with 346 posts and 20 votes.


Voting is closed.

 
This actually makes sense, the strength of a village is primarily its S-Rankers and jounin, so there's little point (as the leadership sees it) in investing a bunch of resources in ninja who will just die as genin. Once they've started chakra manipulation I assume they know too much to leave ninja life.

In fact I think we know that the smaller villages don't do this, Leaf only does this because they have the ninja to burn. Snow gets the maximum return on every single ninja child because they have so few.

More genin means less genin die, which means more of them makes to chunins, which means more jounin. Plus, you still need manpower. 1,500 ninja is still a paltry number of soldiers even for a country the size of Fire.
 
I vaguely recall the QMs saying that adopting Academy Students wouldn't be as easy as it seems, and that we'd get a lot of side-eye looks from the other clans. I think it was around the time Honoka was first introduced, and we talked about using an adoption ticket on her?

Still, if we can find a way to make adopting clanless Academy Students (especially those who are at-risk) viable, then I'd be down for it... Although, it may be easier/more effective to work with the KEI Organization to come up with remedial training/tutoring...

Maybe some sort of joint-partnership with the GED?
 
More genin means less genin die, which means more of them makes to chunins, which means more jounin. Plus, you still need manpower. 1,500 ninja is still a paltry number of soldiers even for a country the size of Fire.
I don't think I agree with your first point. More genin total means more genin will die. Most likely with better education for clanless the same fraction will make chunin and jonin. But with the current system the washouts are probably almost exclusively clanless, and the prevailing wisdom for the entirety of Leaf has been that they're fundamentally different from Clan ninja and intrinsically worse. Taking this as a given, the decision not to continue their education is a sensible one, since they would never amount to anything anyway.

Now that we've demonstrated the premise is false we might see some change in the rate of washouts, but maybe we could have yet another meeting with Asuma to try to change the policy directly.
 
I vaguely recall the QMs saying that adopting Academy Students wouldn't be as easy as it seems, and that we'd get a lot of side-eye looks from the other clans. I think it was around the time Honoka was first introduced, and we talked about using an adoption ticket on her?
I'm reasonably sure that what we said was that it wasn't going to fly to say "Hey, the rules only say that we can't adopt ninja and Academy students aren't ninja!" I'm prepared to be fafleced, of course.
 
Now that we've demonstrated the premise is false we might see some change in the rate of washouts, but maybe we could have yet another meeting with Asuma to try to change the policy directly.

This is exactly the kind of meeting that we should not have. It has no stakes, has no immediate consequences for success or failure, it's not advancing any plots.
 
This is exactly the kind of meeting that we should not have. It has no stakes, has no immediate consequences for success or failure, it's not advancing any plots.
"Asuma, I acknowledge my role in the famine in a way that I didn't previously. You were right - what I was doing was reckless. I'm making dedicated efforts to be a more normal clan head. I'm sorry. Here is enough food to take a serious dent out of that problem - please let me know if you'd rather that we distribute it as opposed to just handing it over to the Tower."

"While I have you, did Jiriya write down my idea about 5SB ninja wire nets for critical infrastructure? Also, I think the village can significantly reduce the washout rate in the first two years of the Academy."

On its own, terrible meeting, but given that (IMO) we need a sit-down with Asuma which has reasonable stakes pretty promptly, I think it folds in nicely, and then maybe he can give us a box to put our good ideas in so when we have more of them we can just put them in the box instead of explaining them.

It could even be tacked on to the end of a Summoner meeting. I think it's a short scene and that Asuma is pretty fun to write especially when Hazo is demonstrating character growth.

I also disagree with the idea that what Hazo does in character should be significantly influenced by out-of-character concerns. If the two conflict, at any rate, my stance is that I'd almost always rather do the in-character thing.
 
On its own, terrible meeting, but given that (IMO) we need a sit-down with Asuma which has reasonable stakes pretty promptly, I think it folds in nicely, and then maybe he can give us a box to put our good ideas in so when we have more of them we can just put them in the box instead of explaining them

And I think we have no reason to have a meeting. Having the meeting has zero meaningful stakes. Asuma isn't going to do anything to cripple us politically, hurt our ascension to godhood. We don't get any meaningful advances out of it either.

I also disagree with the idea that what Hazo does in character should be significantly influenced by out-of-character concerns. If the two conflict, at any rate, my stance is that I'd almost always rather do the in-character thing.

And I feel that actually doing meaningful things is the character development I want from Hazo. To actually be a player in the game.

Now if you could add some tension or try to get something out of this meeting I'd be on board but as is doesn't do anything for me
 
And I think we have no reason to have a meeting. Having the meeting has zero meaningful stakes. Asuma isn't going to do anything to cripple us politically, hurt our ascension to godhood. We don't get any meaningful advances out of it either.



And I feel that actually doing meaningful things is the character development I want from Hazo. To actually be a player in the game.

Now if you could add some tension or try to get something out of this meeting I'd be on board but as is doesn't do anything for me
We could try to pressure him into allowing us to adopt Honoka without using a ticket. Give him our arguments about adopting failing children and allow her to be grandfathered in even though she's not failing anymore.

As it is, she's not useful enough to warrant an adoption ticket but she is definitely family. I want to make it official and I think we might be able to get Asuma to sign off.

Does that sound better to you?
 
We could try to pressure him into allowing us to adopt Honoka without using a ticket. Give him our arguments about adopting failing children and allow her to be grandfathered in even though she's not failing anymore.

As it is, she's not useful enough to warrant an adoption ticket but she is definitely family. I want to make it official and I think we might be able to get Asuma to sign off.

Does that sound better to you?

Not really. Because adopting Honoka has or any academy student has no real effect on the world in a meaningful sense. And if you want it for the character reasons just spend the ticket.
 
Not really. Because adopting Honoka has or any academy student has no real effect on the world in a meaningful sense. And if you want it for the character reasons just spend the ticket.
Hazō would both want it for character reasons and not want it for clan head reasons. This is the best way to balance both.
 
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