...fair point. I didn't intend to disparage the quality of the work. I'm going to go away and calm down for a while.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
...fair point. I didn't intend to disparage the quality of the work. I'm going to go away and calm down for a while.
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- Yes.
Not gonna comment on the rest since it seems it's just disagreement on how we are interpreting what happened, but I do apologize for misreading that part. I genuinely thought you were talking about Hazou's "going pretty damn far" comment and not just the Basement.
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- UK
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- He/Him
I'm still not sure what you're arguing. Kabuto didn't actually do anything suspicious until a year after Hazō threatened him in front of Jiraiya. Hazō threatening him was a straight-up mistake. Nor is it clear to me what Akane, and Hazō's relationship to Akane, has to do with Kabuto working for Orochimaru.
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- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
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- He/Him
I've read exactly one piece of fiction wherein the relationships I have are depicted as something other that weird and aberrant. (It's this.) There's probably more stuff out there but I hadn't realized how much it mattered to me until I experienced it.
And, y'know, cried a little.
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- Book Fort
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- They/Them
Agreed. Classifications and labels are weird, complex, and often contradictory (my personal understanding of them, as well) but my personal identifications have been represented in MfD in tactful, realistic, and non-harmful ways that make me smile and rejoice in the positive representation I've found in this work of literature.
Thank you, QMs. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, with heartfelt emotion so saturated and vibrant that mere, mundane words lack the true ability to lend voice to my depth of gratitude. Again, I thank you.
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- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
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- He/Him
Point one: adoption ticket time is coming up. Honoka is amazing and in a good world we'd be able to adopt her but the marginal utility of adopting an adorable six year old is negative, so we shouldn't do that.
Point two: we have reasonably solid evidence that, were it not for our direct intervention, Honoka would have washed out of the academy/not become a ninja.
Point four: we've sold Asuma on the idea that clan support is a big piece of the success of clans.
I think that we should pitch Asuma the idea that clans should be able to adopt a small number of children from the bottom of every first-year Academy class without expending a ticket. This is a good deal for everyone - the kid gets mentorship, the clan gets another clan ninja, the village increases their conversion rate of people with chakra systems to full-blown shinobi (at least, genin) and the parents are now part of a clan with all of the benefits that entails.
The main arguments against that I can see are 'if you have a chakra system you don't wash out, you die trying' and 'clans will find a way to game this'. Given that it's opt-in, 'what if clans don't have enough adults to train kids' doesn't seem relevant, and I'd be surprised if there weren't 5-6 old timers or invalids kicking around every established clan who could be a decisive factor in a kid's success. I'm not particularly worried about clans gaming the system - Asuma can tell them that they're being idiots and that will be that.
WOG having changed on 'it is indeed possible to wash out of the Academy' would undercut this, but I can't find explicit contradictory information, so I figured I'd throw this out there.
FaintlySorcerous' pet projects:
Point two: we have reasonably solid evidence that, were it not for our direct intervention, Honoka would have washed out of the academy/not become a ninja.
Point three: presumably, there are other kids like Honoka who could have been ninja but wash out largely due to a lack of support.
Point four: we've sold Asuma on the idea that clan support is a big piece of the success of clans.
I think that we should pitch Asuma the idea that clans should be able to adopt a small number of children from the bottom of every first-year Academy class without expending a ticket. This is a good deal for everyone - the kid gets mentorship, the clan gets another clan ninja, the village increases their conversion rate of people with chakra systems to full-blown shinobi (at least, genin) and the parents are now part of a clan with all of the benefits that entails.
The main arguments against that I can see are 'if you have a chakra system you don't wash out, you die trying' and 'clans will find a way to game this'. Given that it's opt-in, 'what if clans don't have enough adults to train kids' doesn't seem relevant, and I'd be surprised if there weren't 5-6 old timers or invalids kicking around every established clan who could be a decisive factor in a kid's success. I'm not particularly worried about clans gaming the system - Asuma can tell them that they're being idiots and that will be that.
WOG having changed on 'it is indeed possible to wash out of the Academy' would undercut this, but I can't find explicit contradictory information, so I figured I'd throw this out there.
FaintlySorcerous' pet projects:
- Give Naruto Ghost Scales
- Make modifications to the adoption system that would allow us to adopt Honoka without needing to spend a ticket
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- Location
- Yes.
How about, under the "Offscreened minutia during this time:"
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- The Void
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- She/Her
I would like to express how bad of an idea I think making Naruto stronger is.
Our end game has us punching out everyone so shouldn't handicap ourselves
[X] Action Plan: Housekeeping
[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES
@Shrooms do you mind adding a) a discussion with delegation to the Ami not-date, and b) high OPSEC to the search for Resolve jutsu?
I'd love to also see @FaintlySorcerous's "Ask Tsunade about the doctor doggos" and question re: 5SB nets, and @Noumero's scarf guy / improve Mari for the Ami section, but I get if it doesn't quite fit.
[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES
@Shrooms do you mind adding a) a discussion with delegation to the Ami not-date, and b) high OPSEC to the search for Resolve jutsu?
I'd love to also see @FaintlySorcerous's "Ask Tsunade about the doctor doggos" and question re: 5SB nets, and @Noumero's scarf guy / improve Mari for the Ami section, but I get if it doesn't quite fit.
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- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
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- He/Him
There's a difference between making Naruto stronger and making him less weak. IMO this does the former but not the latter. If we need to whammy him we're doing it with seals or asking S-rank Mari to drop genjutsu on his head. There doesn't (IMO) exist a world where we would have beaten him but his possession of Ghost Scales was the deciding factor.
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- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
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- He/Him
- Location
- The Void
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- She/Her
True it probably isn't how we beat him but it does increase the odds that our teammates who don't have esoteric bullshit to survive a tactical strike. You shouldn't do things that increase your odds of failure for no reason
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- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
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- He/Him
Were it for no reason, I'd agree that it's a bad idea.
However, I think that the anti-treason points this nets us - even after you adjust those anti-treason points for Asuma believing that we're only doing this for the anti-treason points, they're still substantial - as well as the potential of mending the fence with Naruto are both decent reasons.
Leaf is also where we keep our friends and our stuff, and Naruto is an integral part of Leaf's defense system. My threat model of the EN is such that someone showing up and beating the crap out of the village in a way where Naruto having GS might have been decisive is substantially more probable than Naruto's possession of GS being a decisive factor in something terrible happening to us or our loved ones.
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- The Void
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- She/Her
We're as I think that Naruto losing that fight is just as advantageous as him winning it.
Ultimately just have different expectations on how things will play out. This is just one of the things I'll fight super hard against every time!
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- Italy
To be fair, who can actually do that? Akatsuki(Explicitly not involved in world conquer anymore), Rock Jinchuuriki(Rock is currently on the wait and see approach) and Killer Bee(He is not going to stick his neck in the Rock-Leaf mess unless the situation is clearer) and...pretty much no one else? With Naruto easily getting stronger thanks to massive amounts of Shadow Clones.
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- The Void
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- She/Her
The Angel without Mercy should be on that list
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- UK
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- He/Him
After an hour's thinking, I've come up with The Daily Grind, a litRPG web serial which has a normal, healthy triad relationship between major characters. I can also think of a couple of romcom manga, but they're clearly by authors reinventing the concept of polyamory from first principles, and one's terrible about how it portrays the relationship (red flags everywhere), while the other's just terrible.
I really figured there'd be more. I guess I take your point. I must do more writing so as to increase the amount of poly in the world.
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- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
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- He/Him
Massed jonin and powerful summoners represent significant threats to the village and could plausibly deal with many Naruto at once with AoE attacks.
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- He/Him
I actually do mind doing this since Velorien has already expressed asking for clan advice is going to be a negative spoon experience (also what is she supposed to tell us that we don't already know?)
she already thinks we're cheating with a Jiraiya secret, I don't really want to clue her in any more than we already have (at this stage. Eventually I would enjoy her being a a more permanent team member)
It should technically be covered by "update clanmates on 7th path, disseminate info to relevant parties". I don't think we should start branching out on even more projects right now due to dragons etc. but if Noburi wants to tell her about it and she wants to approach us about it, that's fine with me
I think there will inevitably be Asuma conversations in the near future, and yeah I don't really want to cram it in right now... There's word count space but there's already a lot of fiddly things the QMs will need to check which I already feel bad about doing
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Unironically great motivation for the writers in this community to write more!
I know this is a polarizing author in this community but Wildbow has included polyamorous relationships depicted as normal (of course, it's a group of villains but hey it's WB we're talking about)
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- UK
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- He/Him
The main thing that bothers me when I think about writing poly is that the well has been poisoned by a million manga/anime/webfic harem stories, so that poly written in earnest may still come across as primitive wish fulfilment.
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- He/Him
Regardless of if there's the occasional outsider who doesn't get it, the poly people who read it will finally feel seen. I think it's still worth it
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- Book Fort
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- They/Them
I confess that I'm a little leery of giving Naruto some of our jutsu.
1- Our clan is small, and lacks the hoard of shinies, tips, and tricks that other clans have. We're young, scrappy, and hungry, and I worry about giving too many of our clan secrets away. I worry that the future generations of Goketsu (if the world doesn't explode) will suffer for it. We're a young clan, and will be at a disadvantage to most every other clan... But I also recognize that the instinct to hoard knowledge and advantages may be incongruous with Uplift as a philosophy.
2- Naruto hates Hazou's guts. He's friends with Kei and may be in a romantic relationship with Ami... But Hazou, himself? Loathes. I'm not sure we should hand a knife to someone who wants to stab it in our stomach (but I recognize that Naruto is disinclined to actually stab us... for now).
3- Because Naruto hates Hazou, I suspect handing him jutsu would reek of bribery. Which, for obvious reasons, wouldn't help the situation (indeed, it'd likely incite further enmity --possibly to the point where he takes action against us and their relationship becomes irreparable).
4- Naruto is a Jinchuuriki with (what seems to be) functionally infinite chakra, nearly-infinite shadow clones, a wealth of shinies left by his father (4th Hokage, better than Jiraiya, universally loved, respected, and feared), a wealth of shinies left by his mother (heir of Uzu, She of Adamantine Chains, Student/Heiress of Uzumaki Mito), and all the jutsu Jiraiya left him (which was a whole hecking lot). I'm not sure he needs anything we have.
5- Naruto isn't a Goketsu, and is thus outside of the agreement made to the Pangolins when we received this jutsu. Sure, Kei negotiated for other people learning Pangolin Jutsu for the Condura fight, but we don't know if that was a one-off agreement to fight a common enemy, or if it was a permanent alteration to their deal. Given the Pangolin mindset, I suspect it's the latter.
5.5- As fucked up as the Pangolins are, one's word is sacrosanct on the 7th Path. Deal-breakers and oathbreakers are widely scorned and reviled. Hazou already has enough red ink in his ledger for helping the Pangolins take over the Condors (see: the toads' reaction to hearing Hazou's name from Noburi, Enma and the other clans reluctant to believe Hazou's word about DRAGONWAR, etc). It's lucky enough that Hazou, having taken the blame for Kei no longer supplying the Pangolins with the Skywalkers/skytowers/whatevers (despite their contractual agreement to do so), was still able to sign on with the Dogs. I'd rather not push that too far.
1- Our clan is small, and lacks the hoard of shinies, tips, and tricks that other clans have. We're young, scrappy, and hungry, and I worry about giving too many of our clan secrets away. I worry that the future generations of Goketsu (if the world doesn't explode) will suffer for it. We're a young clan, and will be at a disadvantage to most every other clan... But I also recognize that the instinct to hoard knowledge and advantages may be incongruous with Uplift as a philosophy.
2- Naruto hates Hazou's guts. He's friends with Kei and may be in a romantic relationship with Ami... But Hazou, himself? Loathes. I'm not sure we should hand a knife to someone who wants to stab it in our stomach (but I recognize that Naruto is disinclined to actually stab us... for now).
3- Because Naruto hates Hazou, I suspect handing him jutsu would reek of bribery. Which, for obvious reasons, wouldn't help the situation (indeed, it'd likely incite further enmity --possibly to the point where he takes action against us and their relationship becomes irreparable).
4- Naruto is a Jinchuuriki with (what seems to be) functionally infinite chakra, nearly-infinite shadow clones, a wealth of shinies left by his father (4th Hokage, better than Jiraiya, universally loved, respected, and feared), a wealth of shinies left by his mother (heir of Uzu, She of Adamantine Chains, Student/Heiress of Uzumaki Mito), and all the jutsu Jiraiya left him (which was a whole hecking lot). I'm not sure he needs anything we have.
5- Naruto isn't a Goketsu, and is thus outside of the agreement made to the Pangolins when we received this jutsu. Sure, Kei negotiated for other people learning Pangolin Jutsu for the Condura fight, but we don't know if that was a one-off agreement to fight a common enemy, or if it was a permanent alteration to their deal. Given the Pangolin mindset, I suspect it's the latter.
5.5- As fucked up as the Pangolins are, one's word is sacrosanct on the 7th Path. Deal-breakers and oathbreakers are widely scorned and reviled. Hazou already has enough red ink in his ledger for helping the Pangolins take over the Condors (see: the toads' reaction to hearing Hazou's name from Noburi, Enma and the other clans reluctant to believe Hazou's word about DRAGONWAR, etc). It's lucky enough that Hazou, having taken the blame for Kei no longer supplying the Pangolins with the Skywalkers/skytowers/whatevers (despite their contractual agreement to do so), was still able to sign on with the Dogs. I'd rather not push that too far.
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- Location
- Italy
Ryuugamine is lethal when he gets to decide the rules of engagement and prepare the battlefield, this is why he wasn't sent to Nagi Island. More importantly, Mist is allied with Leaf, therefore i excluded their S-rankers from the count.
I mean, Naruto would need to face another powerful summoner alone(He's Leaf Jinchuuriki, he's not going anywhere without backup), that no one knows about, capable of summoning a Clan Boss, and all of this in the short term before he becomes the demigod of war that he will be in a little time. Let's remember that every time Naruto gets XP, every Naruto Shadow Clone becomes stronger, and there are a lot of those.
Massed Jonin are not a factor, only Rock and Cloud have enough jonins to try it, and they are not going to waste their jonin contigent like that.
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Noumero
Omit Needless Words
In that vein, I could recommend Katalepsis, an urban fantasy/cosmic horror web serial in which (minor spoiler) the protagonist becomes part of a lesbian triad. The story is quite well-written and at least rational-adjacent, though I do have some major complaints about it.
Also, some of the cultures in The Traitor Baru Cormorant have polyamorous relationships as the norm, including the protagonist's culture. Top-notch writing, but it's quite dark.
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