Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Torpling · Jul 19, 2021

I am a bit worried about making a sculpture of the great seal (I still think we should do it).
Are people going to be suspicious about us making a better copy than we should be able to? The other sealmasters don't know about the Iron nerve seal saving thing, do they?

Maybe we can do something to make it look less like a special bloodline ability.
e.g. we've recently acquired a good excuse to spend a lot of time at the mind reader clan's compound, maybe we can make it look like they helped extract the image from our brainstuff.

Shrooms · Jul 19, 2021

Kiba said:
[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES

Are we sure that bison meats are going to be provided to the hungry and not only ninja?

Shrooms said:
[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES
Word Count: 282

Timeskip to Condor Scout report being confirmed

Offscreen stuff during timeskip:

Ask clanmates to come by Hazou's office more regularly, delegate where possible, show you learned from your mistakes.

Learn stonecarving jutsu, begin refining a Great Seal model. Use this time to explain more theory to Harumitsu.

Akane: watch over Haru, involve Sakura/Haru's family where Akane deems necessary.

Confirm Bear Scroll info

Provide bison to Tower (Ask Mari if we should ask for reduced debt in exchange). Ensure all hungry are provided for, not just ninja.

Decipher Karasu letters

Ami

Invite Ami to play ninja Jenga or something. Show off your cool hair

It's been a while. How was The Ami's date with Naruto?

Thank her for Karasu letters. Fun puzzle.

Word is spreading. Eastern bosses will meet soon. Any last advice on pitching the Crusader idea?

Provide any feedback from Summon Bosses.

Additional concern: Mobilizing Summons through uncooperative territory (E.G. Cat)

Bosses

Follow Enma's lead, let the Bosses call for a convention. Don't attend anything without Cannai to protect you.

Rehearse Crusader idea with attending Leaf Summoners in advance. Bosses should know what to expect.

The more overwhelming force that can be applied to the Dragons at once, the higher the chance of success. Getting hesitant clans on board is crucial to the survival of the 7th path, no, all of the paths. With 6 Dragons, we should aim for the combined strength of at least12 Bosses, whether via armies or total Bosses.

Kumokogo was under the impression it would take 2 or 3 Bosses to defeat a single Dragon. The plan is to kite them one at a time so they don't all have to be defeated at once, but we should prepare for the worst.

Added a line for that. I do actually think it's in Asuma's best interest to help everyone though. His biggest concern about the famine was what it would do it his image as Hokage, IE undermine the legitimacy of the office and make it harder to keep things stable. Restoring people's faith in him benefits him too.

Shrooms · Jul 19, 2021

Torpling said:
Are people going to be suspicious about us making a better copy than we should be able to?

Our copy is actually not going to be that great for a long time. Hazou is casting this jutsu at effective level 20ish or something. This thing probably has a TN of 90+ for actual functionality. Now, I doubt we need to match that to be close enough for Sealmaster Gang to fix the problem, but I expect we will need to be higher than what Hazou is casting it at right now.

Kiba · Jul 19, 2021

Shrooms said:
Added a line for that. I do actually think it's in Asuma's best interest to help everyone though. His biggest concern about the famine was what it would do it his image as Hokage, IE undermine the legitimacy of the office and make it harder to keep things stable. Restoring people's faith in him benefits him too.

There are two things for clan finance I want to see.

Clan finance:

Continue to coordinate new summon path trade(of interest: spider silk and that doggos sleep aid)
Consult Keiko on safe engineering of underground garden for growing high value crops and medicine.

_The_Bomb · Jul 19, 2021

Kiba said:
Can we includes some fun stuff in an action plan instead of just doing only the necessary drudge work?

For example, Mari would absolutely love some spiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidersilk. Making diplomatic foray into trading with the weaverkins and then giving silks to leaf merchants to turn it into clothes.

Or we could make progress on DRAGONWAR sealing research.

I think finally having the conversation with Naruto about Ghost Scales would be really fun to read.

Kiba · Jul 19, 2021

_The_Bomb said:
I think finally having the conversation with Naruto about Ghost Scales would be really fun to read.

I don't feel like this is a good idea. We are on bad relations with Naruto. I would prefer not to give him a tool to kill us more effectively.

Lord Marshal · Jul 19, 2021

Shrooms said:
[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES

Would you be willing to add a:
-"Contact Kabuto section" so that in the timeskip Orochimaru does something
-Ask Noburi to contact the Toads regarding Resolve Boosting Jutsu/ Training Jutsu.
Both are very important things that does not need meaningful screentime

[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES

Oneiros · Jul 19, 2021

[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES

Halberdier said:
This has been addressed a couple times, I believe. But I will just say, from a strategic viewpoint, telling the people you're attempting to convince that they don't want to do fun/cool things, and any substantial critique they have of your plans, regardless of their nontrivial flaws or underestimation of the enemy, is proof nobody else wants to do fun things, is not a good means to convince people to support projects you view as fun or cool.

Yeah you're a hundred percent right. This is a symptom of a much bigger problem trying to solve. Hopefully can get us doing some cool stuff once Hazo is healed up

Inferno Vulpix · Jul 19, 2021

Torpling said:
I am a bit worried about making a sculpture of the great seal (I still think we should do it).
Are people going to be suspicious about us making a better copy than we should be able to? The other sealmasters don't know about the Iron nerve seal saving thing, do they?

Maybe we can do something to make it look less like a special bloodline ability.
e.g. we've recently acquired a good excuse to spend a lot of time at the mind reader clan's compound, maybe we can make it look like they helped extract the image from our brainstuff.

Hazou's gone back to the Great Seal at least once now, so it's plausible for him to have further studied it and memorized a lot of the curves of it before coming back. We can just lean on that if someone asks how this version has more details in it than the first version.

Kiba · Jul 19, 2021

Inferno Vulpix said:
Hazou's gone back to the Great Seal at least once now, so it's plausible for him to have further studied it and memorized a lot of the curves of it before coming back. We can just lean on that if someone asks how this version has more details in it than the first version.

Also, Hazo is heavily injured. So he can explain it away as mind healing itself.

Shrooms · Jul 19, 2021

Lord Marshal said:
-Ask Noburi to contact the Toads regarding Resolve Boosting Jutsu/ Training Jutsu.

Done. I don't think I'm gonna have the space for the Kabuto thing sadly, but I would bet Oro is looking into the Great Seal stuff. Though he may have looked at what we provided so far and said, "Meh, I'll wait for a better copy" and then went back to research, because there was nothing that required his skills to glean yet.

Halberdier · Jul 19, 2021

Anyone want to include telling Tsunade there's an entire species that is open to learning medical treatment and is pretty good as far as equal treatment of its people goes? I feel like seeing her response would be beneficial. Also, I weirdly want to see Noburi doing 7th path healing and just becoming super cross-trained. Like a vet, but if the animals were sentient and stronger than you.

Noumero · Jul 19, 2021

[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES

Shrooms said:
[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES

Minimized the word count:

Timeskip to Condor Scout report being confirmed. In background:
- Have clanmates visit Hazou's office more regularly. Delegate where possible, show that you learn from mistakes.
- Learn the stonecarving jutsu, refine the Great Seal's model. Concurrently, teach Harumitsu.
- Akane: Monitor Haru. Involve Sakura/Haru's family where appropriate.
- Confirm the Bear Scroll info.
- Provide bison to the Tower. Ensure the food reaches civilians.
  - Mari: Should we ask for debt reduction in exchange?
- Decipher the Karasu letters.
- Covertly search for jutsu that temporarily increase mental fortitude (Resolve).
  - Query Cannai, and the Toad/Pangolin Bosses by proxy.
  - Ask Kei to search Leaf Library. Ask Yuno about (non-secret) Isan jutsu.
Invite Ami to play ninja Jenga. Show off your cool hair.
- It's been a while. How was The Ami's date with Naruto?
- Thank her for the Karasu letters. Fun puzzle.
- Update her on the Dragonwar. Provide the Bosses' feedback to her idea. Ask for improvements and additional advice.
  - Additional concern: Mobilizing Summons through uncooperative territory (example: Cat).
Bosses:
- Follow Enma's lead, let Bosses call for a convention. Don't attend without Cannai to protect you.
- Rehearse the Crusader idea with the Leaf Summoners in advance. Bosses should know what to expect.
- Kumokogo believes it'll take 2-3 Bosses to defeat one Dragon. With 6 Dragons, we should aim to gather 12+ Bosses, or a force of equivalent strength. Getting hesitant clans' cooperation is crucial to the survival of 7th/all paths.
  - Ideally, we'd engage Dragons one-by-one, but we should prepare for the worst.

_The_Bomb · Jul 19, 2021

Halberdier said:
Anyone want to include telling Tsunade there's an entire species that is open to learning medical treatment and is pretty good as far as equal treatment of its people goes? I feel like seeing her response would be beneficial. Also, I weirdly want to see Noburi doing 7th path healing and just becoming super cross-trained. Like a vet, but if the animals were sentient and stronger than you.

Can you offscreen this @FaintlySorcerous?

Rafin · Jul 19, 2021

Shane_357 said:
Make sure to phrase it as "Gaku you've done great work and without you I would not be able to run this clan. Akane and others want me to delegate further for the sake of my mental health; what funds, assurances and permissions would you need to find a further administrative staff that reaches your standards for loyalty, integrity and competence?"

Congratulate Gaku for his well done job. Tell him about plans to delegate and the potential necessity for additional secretaries. Ask him if with the appropriate resources he could expand his staff to meet said needs.

Kiba said:
Clan finance being in dire strait means that we're vulnerable to economic attacks, which means undesirable political consequences(like owning big favors and money to clans) and limits our options on projects that we can take on, both low level and high level.

So, it's not good enough to have the NPCs passively manage our finance to ensure that we...don't die financially. But they should be seeking out sources of income and reduce wastes where possible without impacting long term or short term viability of the clan and quality of life.

We are currently planning to gift away massive amounts of food. We should at least petition the Tower/Asuma to reduce our debt by whatever he deems appropriate, suggesting half the kilo price of pre-famine flour as a fair deal.

Sir Stompy · Jul 19, 2021

Sir Stompy said:
I'd like to start teaching a few Arachnids to operate seals so we can start disseminating that knowledge in that part of the 7th Path.

Ideally we could also pick up some spidersilk and see if it can be woven in to cloth, either by Arachnid weaverkin or human weavers. Spidersilk is so strong that we might be able to get an Armor rating out of the resulting cloth. Weaverkin might think it was an interesting project, and probably an honor to do it for Kumokugo's consort.

@Shrooms could you offscreen these? I'd probably put them as "Teach a few Arachnids to operate seals who can then teach others" and "Inquire about spidersilk as armor or trade good, if favorable, get some"

18scsc · Jul 19, 2021

I'm sure someone else has raised this question, but why can't we just point Hidan at the Arachnid Scroll? He's a deniable asset that has more than enough power to take care of any guards.

Noumero said:
Eyeglasses, the CHAOS suit, the salterns, and Canvass' thing seem to be frozen.

IIRC the CHAOS suit currently has no mechanical benefit because it was like, awkward and a little hard to use? We probably need to just write up a Stunt for it. Something like 100 xp that gives you an extra supplemental action to use on activating seals, I'm not sure.

Shrooms · Jul 19, 2021

Sir Stompy said:
@Shrooms could you offscreen these? I'd probably put them as "Teach a few Arachnids to operate seals who can then teach others" and "Inquire about spidersilk as armor or trade good, if favorable, get some"

Shrooms said:
[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES
Word Count: 282

Timeskip to Condor Scout report being confirmed. In background:

Have clanmates visit Hazou's office more regularly. Delegate where possible, show that you learn from mistakes.

Learn the stonecarving jutsu, refine the Great Seal's model. Concurrently, teach Harumitsu.

Akane: Monitor Haru. Involve Sakura/Haru's family where appropriate.

Confirm the Bear Scroll info.

Provide bison to the Tower. Ensure the food reaches civilians.

Mari: Should we ask for debt reduction in exchange?

Decipher the Karasu letters.

Covertly search for jutsu that temporarily increase mental fortitude (Resolve).

Query Cannai, and the Toad/Pangolin Bosses by proxy.

Ask Kei to search Leaf Library. Ask Yuno about (non-secret) Isan jutsu.

Teach Arachnids to use Seals, if willing. Implosion Seals may be capable of damaging Dragon lungs when detonated near their chests.

Negotiate trade to obtain silk. Offer raw goods, medicine, books, etc.

Invite Ami to play ninja Jenga. Show off your cool hair.

It's been a while. How was The Ami's date with Naruto?

Thank her for the Karasu letters. Fun puzzle.

Update her on the DRAGONWAR. Provide the Bosses' feedback to her idea. Ask for improvements and additional advice.

Additional concern: Mobilizing Summons through uncooperative territory (example: Cat).

Bosses:

Follow Enma's lead, let Bosses call for a convention. Don't attend without Cannai to protect you.

Rehearse the Crusader idea with the Leaf Summoners in advance. Bosses should know what to expect.

Kumokogo believes it'll take 2-3 Bosses to defeat one Dragon. With 6 Dragons, we should aim to gather 12+ Bosses, or a force of equivalent strength. Getting hesitant clans' cooperation is crucial to the survival of 7th/all paths.

Ideally, we'd engage Dragons one-by-one, but we should prepare for the worst.

eaglejarl · Jul 19, 2021

18scsc said:
IIRC the CHAOS suit currently has no mechanical benefit because it was like, awkward and a little hard to use? We probably need to just write up a Stunt for it. Something like 100 xp that gives you an extra supplemental action to use on activating seals, I'm not sure.

Why would the suit give you an extra action?

_The_Bomb said:
@eaglejarl, @Velorien, what are your thoughts on the matter [of a general staff for delegation]? Would this be a good way of reducing the problematic elements of the quest? Is there any modification you would prefer?

My personal worries, not WOG:

I worry about catching a facefull of salt if the general staff makes a mistake
Ditto the salt if the general staff doesn't perform optimally -- any time the hivemind notices something that the QMs didn't we're going to get "That's ridiculous! <Person> should have thought of that!"
Items 1&2 incentivize us to make the staff always perform perfectly, which isn't super realistic
I'm not sure how much background simulation will be required. It could end up being more than what we do now and without the help of the players.

On the positive side:

Huzzah for not nearly as many meetings and administrivia!

Oneiros said:
Ahh I was under the implication that we where functional.

eaglejarl said:

You're beaten to hell and you're not going to be field-ready for a few months, but you'll be functional."

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

But since it turns out I'm mistaken I'll just delete the plan.

For future reference, the Timeline document shows how much time has passed in game. It's only been 5 weeks, not 'a few months'. Also, there have been multiple references to Hazō being on crutches, including the latest chapter. There was also a point about him being carried in a litter back in chapter 445.

Shrooms · Jul 19, 2021

eaglejarl said:
Huzzah for not nearly as many meetings and administrivia!

>proceeds to micromanage general staff

FunkyEntropy · Jul 19, 2021

I think it's fairly reasonable to assume that Tsunade would be pretty pissed if we don't bring the dog clan medical to her attention immediately.

Velorien · Jul 19, 2021

Rafin said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien That list of jutsu that Cannai asked for, do we have to write it as part of a plan or can we write it separately and link it? If you allow the latter, I'd still advice some size limit to said list though.

You can link it from elsewhere. Please keep it to 5 items at most.

Halberdier · Jul 19, 2021

Halberdier said:
I had a point that I believed to be easy to implement and should have been non-contentious. Between thinking it, and going to write this comment, it has disappeared. I'm afraid I'm being written out of reality. And I'm no Jack Rakan. This is very strange. Oh well.

This has been addressed a couple times, I believe. But I will just say, from a strategic viewpoint, telling the people you're attempting to convince that they don't want to do fun/cool things, and any substantial critique they have of your plans, regardless of their nontrivial flaws or underestimation of the enemy, is proof nobody else wants to do fun things, is not a good means to convince people to support projects you view as fun or cool.

Velorien said:
You can link it from elsewhere. Please keep it to 5 items at most.

@FaintlySorcerous oh that's what that was! I'm not sure if it would be super helpful for the QMs, but just having the points we want to bring up be links to the last time they were discussed, so the QMs don't have to go digging for everything when reading it over.

eaglejarl · Jul 19, 2021

Shrooms said:
>proceeds to micromanage general staff

Why is there not a facepalm rating on this site?!

Icehawk78 · Jul 19, 2021

eaglejarl said:
Huzzah for not nearly as many meetings and administrivia!

I'm confused, is your expectation that delegation leads to fewer meetings?

I can say firsthand that this does not match my personal experience - my entire job is effectively delegation (I manage a software development team) and the entirety of my job is sitting in meetings.

For all of the reasons you've given about practical concerns around having a general staff, an effective leader's most important job is to constantly gather as much information as they can and effectively act as a broker for that information to all of those others who need that. Otherwise you end up in constant firefighting mode like Hazō has been.

I think a core problem is that stories about effective leaders who are actively doing that leading is simply boring to read about - the best course of action is almost always to spend about 80% of your time essentially "trading information" with others (see: every scene we've seen Asuma in), and the other 20% either maintaining or improving the systems your organization/group has in place to function.

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy