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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Shrooms said:
I get the intent behind this and I even agree it's somewhat necessary but damn does this not excite me in the slightest

I don't really want to vote for this because I can't imagine Velorien having a good time with it at all. It's a lot of new information the QMs need to generate (IE What is everyone working on, what ideas do all the NPCs have, etc.) on top of being Meetings+ (and no shame there, EJ gave a bap at the end of last chapter for my plan being mostly or entirely meetings, so I get it). I also don't think manually listing everything out is necessary. For one, an immediate glance will tell us many of those things are not feasible to delegate. For instance: Dog relations. How is anyone else supposed to do that?
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I've tried to punt some of the QM work and been explicit about what I think can and cannot be delegated. I hear you on the list but I don't want to leave the QMs in a position where they need to remember everything.
Velorien said:
Don't forget all the clan-running advice.
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My intention with this was largely to be able to look Akane, Ino, and maybe Asuma in the eye and say 'we have taken you seriously and we're trying hard to be less bad at this whole clan head thing'.

If there were to be a mechanical benefit, in my wildest fantasies, it would be something like 'the wisdom you have collected is sufficient that you may assume you have booked regular meetings with anyone to whom you've delegated a task without writing it into future plans, and that Nara project management techniques have given you a framework for said meetings you feel confident will surface any major issues before they rise to the level of the bank run'.

The way that the fiction has worked out is that we need to delegate more and more effectively, but Marked for Delegation sounds not-fun. I don't know how to balance not needing to write regular check-ins into plans and feeling confident that projects will continue and not explode in the absence of our regular direct intervention without cutting projects, and I don't think that's going to happen without a disaster that forces our hand.

However, it's been excised for now.
Shrooms said:
[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES
Word Count: 282
  • Timeskip to Condor Scout report being confirmed. In background:
    • Have clanmates visit Hazou's office more regularly. Delegate where possible, show that you learn from mistakes.
    • Learn the stonecarving jutsu, refine the Great Seal's model. Concurrently, teach Harumitsu.
    • Akane: Monitor Haru. Involve Sakura/Haru's family where appropriate.
    • Confirm the Bear Scroll info.
    • Provide bison to the Tower. Ensure the food reaches civilians.
      • Mari: Should we ask for debt reduction in exchange?
    • Decipher the Karasu letters.
    • Covertly search for jutsu that temporarily increase mental fortitude (Resolve).
      • Query Cannai, and the Toad/Pangolin Bosses by proxy.
      • Ask Kei to search Leaf Library. Ask Yuno about (non-secret) Isan jutsu.
    • Teach Arachnids to use Seals, if willing. Implosion Seals may be capable of damaging Dragon lungs when detonated near their chests.
      • Negotiate trade to obtain silk. Offer raw goods, medicine, books, etc.
  • Invite Ami to play ninja Jenga. Show off your cool hair.
    • It's been a while. How was The Ami's date with Naruto?
    • Thank her for the Karasu letters. Fun puzzle.
    • Update her on the DRAGONWAR. Provide the Bosses' feedback to her idea. Ask for improvements and additional advice.
      • Additional concern: Mobilizing Summons through uncooperative territory (example: Cat).
  • Bosses:
    • Follow Enma's lead, let Bosses call for a convention. Don't attend without Cannai to protect you.
    • Rehearse the Crusader idea with the Leaf Summoners in advance. Bosses should know what to expect.
    • Kumokogo believes it'll take 2-3 Bosses to defeat one Dragon. With 6 Dragons, we should aim to gather 12+ Bosses, or a force of equivalent strength. Getting hesitant clans' cooperation is crucial to the survival of 7th/all paths.
      • Ideally, we'd engage Dragons one-by-one, but we should prepare for the worst.
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The words 'delegate where possible' are doing a lot of heavy lifting, here, IMO. We already thought that we were delegating where possible, and Akane and Ino both made it clear to us that this is not, in fact, the case. Not taking clear steps to address their concerns for three weeks seems like it might be dangerous, especially given that Akane is still not living on the estate.

'Delegate eyeglasses, salterns, following up on the mini-chuunin exams, the search for Canvass' ancestors, and the hunt for the Bear/Kangaroo/Kraken/Otter scrolls to clan members. Book regular meetings to monitor progress and prevent disaster, but try to otherwise be hands-off.'
Halberdier said:
@FaintlySorcerous oh that's what that was! I'm not sure if it would be super helpful for the QMs, but just having the points we want to bring up be links to the last time they were discussed, so the QMs don't have to go digging for everything when reading it over.
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Second line in the plan post - it's on my to-do list.
FaintlySorcerous said:
I think that linking the last update for the things on our list might be helpful for the QMs. I'll do some of that at some point.

[X] Action Plan: Housekeeping

Word count: sub-300
  • Offscreen:
    • Karasu/Ami's sealing notes:
      • Block out time to decipher, focusing on sealing and DRAGONWAR-relevant lore.
    • Tsunade:
      • the Dogs are interested in medical jutsu. Can you help?
    • Gaku:
      • We're planning on delegating work to the clan.
      • What resources do you need or want to support this?
        • This is not the time for modesty. Your work is vital to the clan.
        • Money, staff, ninjutsu, WMDs?
  • Asuma:
    • We acknowledge our role in the famine and apologize.
    • We have a lot of food incoming for Leaf. Do you want us to distribute it or hand it over?
    • Were 5SB/ninja wire nets to protect critical infrastructure in Jiriya's notes?
  • Kei
    • Explicit: this might be monumentally stupid.
    • We want to give Naruto Ghost Scales.
    • Pro: it's great for Naruto and therefore Leaf, and might help mend fences.
    • Con: needs Pangolin approval, we have concerns about secrecy.
    • CRITICALLY IMPORTANT: it is your jutsu and you can veto this for any reason.
  • Full clan:
    • We want to delegate more. We trust you, but we haven't acted like it. We're sorry.
    • Here's everything on our list.
      • Civilian projects
        • Skysliders
        • Aqueducts/sewage
      • Hard to delegate:
        • DRAGONWAR
        • Harumitsu
        • Necromancy
        • CHAOS suits/reactive armour
        • Managing Dog relations
      • Everything else:
        • Mini-chuunin exams
        • Canvass' ancestors
        • Eyeglasses
        • Salterns
        • Finding Bear/Kraken/Otter/Kangaroo scrolls
        • Haru
        • The famine
        • We're broke
    • Who can champion or help with that stuff?
    • Everyone please provide your personal lists of responsibilities within a few weeks.
      • We've been wrapped up in our own problems and haven't been asking. Again: we're sorry.
    • We want to be a leader worthy of Goketsu. Thank you all for your support, especially when we fall short. It means the world.
  • Timeskip to Condor Scout report being confirmed.
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FaintlySorcerous said:
The words 'delegate where possible' are doing a lot of heavy lifting, here, IMO. We already thought that we were delegating where possible, and Akane and Ino both made it clear to us that this is not, in fact, the case.
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We kinda are though. A majority of the projects on that list, Gaku is handling, not Hazou. Their input should be weighed appropriately but they aren't automagically right. I mean, just look at the beginning of the most recent chapter. Haru should've been delegated, that was an error. In the future with similar situations, we should ask someone to handle it instead of waiting for Hazou to have time. That doesn't mean re-evaluating all our existing projects.

Anyways, spending an entire update just defining what that is is unnecessary in my opinion. I think taking that as a wake-up call for the Players and making an effort to delegate in plans is a perfectly valid and sufficient response, rather than having Hazou talk about it for an update in-story.
 
PSA: The following has been added to the rules doc under Reverse Summoning

When returning from the Seventh Path to the Human Path, you arrive at the location you left from. If that location is obstructed then you will be shunted to the nearest free space within 3m. This will account for bodily position so if you were curled up when you left the Seventh Path then you might get shunted into a cabinet but if you were standing up then you wouldn't.

If there is no appropriate free space within 3m then Bad Things happen. This might include portal cuts, explosions, nigh-instant death from being embedded in an object, or simply being lost in interdimensional space.
 
eaglejarl said:
PSA: The following has been added to the rules doc under Reverse Summoning

When returning from the Seventh Path to the Human Path, you arrive at the location you left from. If that location is obstructed then you will be shunted to the nearest free space within 3m. This will account for bodily position so if you were curled up when you left the Seventh Path then you might get shunted into a cabinet but if you were standing up then you wouldn't.

If there is no appropriate free space within 3m then Bad Things happen. This might include portal cuts, explosions, nigh-instant death from being embedded in an object, or simply being lost in interdimensional space.
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So, is there any enemy summoner we can assassinate with this method?...What? Someone was going to weaponize it, sooner or later.
 
eaglejarl said:
PSA: The following has been added to the rules doc under Reverse Summoning

When returning from the Seventh Path to the Human Path, you arrive at the location you left from. If that location is obstructed then you will be shunted to the nearest free space within 3m. This will account for bodily position so if you were curled up when you left the Seventh Path then you might get shunted into a cabinet but if you were standing up then you wouldn't.

If there is no appropriate free space within 3m then Bad Things happen. This might include portal cuts, explosions, nigh-instant death from being embedded in an object, or simply being lost in interdimensional space.
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Is this common knowledge? Can we expect enemies to be aware of this if they are not Summoners themselves?

Also when a Summoner Reverse Summons, if they have summons still on the Human Path, do the summons not involved in the Reverse Summon pop?
 
PSA: Mechanics for the Stoneshaping jutsu are now available

docs.google.com

PLAYERS - Known Jutsu

Player-Known Jutsu Inconsistency of Chakra 3 Non-Elemental 4 Akimichi Chakra Enhancement Technique 4 Pangolin Clan Technique: Defend the Log 5 Pangolin Clan Technique: Exploring Tongue 5 Pangolin Clan Technique: Ghost Scales 6 System Translation Notes 7 Pangolin Clan Technique: Pangolin Conditio...
docs.google.com docs.google.com
 
Icehawk78 said:
I'm confused, is your expectation that delegation leads to fewer meetings?

I can say firsthand that this does not match my personal experience - my entire job is effectively delegation (I manage a software development team) and the entirety of my job is sitting in meetings.

For all of the reasons you've given about practical concerns around having a general staff, an effective leader's most important job is to constantly gather as much information as they can and effectively act as a broker for that information to all of those others who need that. Otherwise you end up in constant firefighting mode like Hazō has been.

I think a core problem is that stories about effective leaders who are actively doing that leading is simply boring to read about - the best course of action is almost always to spend about 80% of your time essentially "trading information" with others (see: every scene we've seen Asuma in), and the other 20% either maintaining or improving the systems your organization/group has in place to function.
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Been there/done that on the managing a software team, so I agree with you on that. My point was that there need to be fewer onscreen meetings because we can assume that those things are happening in the background without Hazō's attention. So goes the hope, anyway.
 
eaglejarl said:
PSA: Mechanics for the Stoneshaping jutsu are now available

docs.google.com

PLAYERS - Known Jutsu

Player-Known Jutsu Inconsistency of Chakra 3 Non-Elemental 4 Akimichi Chakra Enhancement Technique 4 Pangolin Clan Technique: Defend the Log 5 Pangolin Clan Technique: Exploring Tongue 5 Pangolin Clan Technique: Ghost Scales 6 System Translation Notes 7 Pangolin Clan Technique: Pangolin Conditio...
docs.google.com docs.google.com
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Stoneshaping jutsu said:
The first time you use this jutsu you notice that there is potential in it to be more than what it seems. You are confident that greater skill will unlock potent new abilities.
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Genuinely can't tell if the QMs are trolling
 
Stoneshaping jutsu:
The first time you use this jutsu you notice that there is potential in it to be more than what it seems. You are confident that greater skill will unlock potent new abilities.
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Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting. Maybe level 29 will be enough to figure out a bit more? I'm genuinely not sure what we might find at the end of this path, which is intriguing.

Anyways, assuming the level 29 training plan passes, here's the details:
  • AB 3
  • Can shape 8 cubic meters at once.
  • 24 chakra to start, 24 chakra to stop (we can't afford to abruptly stop, as that might damage the stone).
  • 1 chakra per minute of sculpting. We can sculpt for as long as we have chakra to spare, which given Noburi and sufficient logistics is essentially all day if we need to.
There's now an actually decent argument in favour of Stonecarving 30 instead of 29, in that even though we'll roll a lower number overall we'll be able to shape 16 cubic meters instead of 8. We'll have to be making a scale model anyways, but less scaled is probably better if we can afford it.

@eaglejarl, @Velorien, approximately how big is the Great Seal? And how tall is it relative to its width?
 
eaglejarl said:
Why would the suit give you an extra action?


My personal worries, not WOG:
  1. I worry about catching a facefull of salt if the general staff makes a mistake
  2. Ditto the salt if the general staff doesn't perform optimally -- any time the hivemind notices something that the QMs didn't we're going to get "That's ridiculous! <Person> should have thought of that!"
  3. Items 1&2 incentivize us to make the staff always perform perfectly, which isn't super realistic
  4. I'm not sure how much background simulation will be required. It could end up being more than what we do now and without the help of the players.
On the positive side:
  1. Huzzah for not nearly as many meetings and administrivia!



For future reference, the Timeline document shows how much time has passed in game. It's only been 5 weeks, not 'a few months'. Also, there have been multiple references to Hazō being on crutches, including the latest chapter. There was also a point about him being carried in a litter back in chapter 445.
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Thank you for your feedback. I will give some thought to how to best mitigate these issues. @Velorien, do you have anything to add?
 
eaglejarl said:
I don't understand the question...?
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Is an 8 meter model of the Great Seal too small, basically. Are there crucial details a 16 meter model would be capable of showing that an 8 meter model would not?

Mechanically I think players are wondering if we should stay at level 29 for the improved rolls, or go over level 30, raising our AB but lowering our rolls due to consequences using the updated AB while gaining a bigger radius
 
Shrooms said:
Is an 8 meter model of the Great Seal too small, basically. Are there crucial details a 16 meter model would be capable of showing that an 8 meter model would not?

Mechanically I think players are wondering if we should stay at level 29 for the improved rolls, or go over level 30, raising our AB but lowering our rolls due to consequences using the updated AB while gaining a bigger radius
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We could just go to ES 29, make a sculpture. Then raise it to 30 and make another. It would take 2 days instead of 1, but it's not really a problem.
 
Shrooms said:
Is an 8 meter model of the Great Seal too small, basically. Are there crucial details a 16 meter model would be capable of showing that an 8 meter model would not?

Mechanically I think players are wondering if we should stay at level 29 for the improved rolls, or go over level 30, raising our AB but lowering our rolls due to consequences using the updated AB while gaining a bigger radius
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FaintlySorcerous said:
What's the minimum size/scale a reproduction of the Great Seal would need to be, to preserve all the relevant details, for our best guess at relevant?
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Ah, I see.

Hazō doesn't know what all the relevant details are so he has no way to answer the question, and he hasn't even bought the jutsu yet so he can't say how easy it will be to reproduce the relative proportions clearly. Still, any 3D duplicate is going to give the Leaf sealmasters a lot more to go on than the chicken-scratched paper version they have now.
 
eaglejarl said:
Been there/done that on the managing a software team, so I agree with you on that. My point was that there need to be fewer onscreen meetings because we can assume that those things are happening in the background without Hazō's attention. So goes the hope, anyway.
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It occurs to me that there's been a precedent set with the sky glider team. Have shit running in the background, with maybe a line in the author's note going "Hazou had many meetings with many people, stuff is progressing. Inquire for specific details."

And then if the QMs decide a random encounter (research lead dies from consumption, newbie engineer has a good idea, etc) it can be mentioned onscreen or in the author's note.

((Sorry If this has been mentioned before, I'm currently moving apartments and haven't kept up with the thread all that much))
 
[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES

I have only two concerns. The first is that there's a lot in this plan and I can easily see Velorien only getting half of it done. If you think that it's still the best way forward in spite of that, to make sure the overall thesis of the plan is clear, I won't object further.

The second is that you said the Bosses are going to call a convention, but the word we were told was actually 'conclave' and that's too cool of a word to not use when you have the opportunity. This demands immediate rectification.
 
Shrooms said:
[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES
Word Count: 282
  • Timeskip to Condor Scout report being confirmed. In background:
    • Have clanmates visit Hazou's office more regularly. Delegate where possible, show that you learn from mistakes.
    • Learn the stonecarving jutsu, refine the Great Seal's model. Concurrently, teach Harumitsu.
    • Akane: Monitor Haru. Involve Sakura/Haru's family where appropriate.
    • Confirm the Bear Scroll info.
    • Provide bison to the Tower. Ensure the food reaches civilians.
      • Mari: Should we ask for debt reduction in exchange?
    • Decipher the Karasu letters.
    • Covertly search for jutsu that temporarily increase mental fortitude (Resolve).
      • Query Cannai, and the Toad/Pangolin Bosses by proxy.
      • Ask Kei to search Leaf Library. Ask Yuno about (non-secret) Isan jutsu.
    • Teach Arachnids to use Seals, if willing. Implosion Seals may be capable of damaging Dragon lungs when detonated near their chests.
      • Negotiate trade to obtain silk. Offer raw goods, medicine, books, etc.
  • Invite Ami to play ninja Jenga. Show off your cool hair.
    • It's been a while. How was The Ami's date with Naruto?
    • Thank her for the Karasu letters. Fun puzzle.
    • Update her on the DRAGONWAR. Provide the Bosses' feedback to her idea. Ask for improvements and additional advice.
      • Additional concern: Mobilizing Summons through uncooperative territory (example: Cat).
  • Bosses:
    • Follow Enma's lead, let Bosses call for a conclave. Don't attend without Cannai to protect you.
    • Rehearse the Crusader idea with the Leaf Summoners in advance. Bosses should know what to expect.
    • Kumokogo believes it'll take 2-3 Bosses to defeat one Dragon. With 6 Dragons, we should aim to gather 12+ Bosses, or a force of equivalent strength. Getting hesitant clans' cooperation is crucial to the survival of 7th/all paths.
      • Ideally, we'd engage Dragons one-by-one, but we should prepare for the worst.
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Updated.
 
[X] ACTION PLAN: GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES
 
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