Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I agree.
- Location
- Yes.
@Oneiros Made changes to the FOOM talk, I think this works better for obfuscation? It only mentions FOOM in subtext, and I think everything else could be construed as just being another clan secret we haven't told Keiko about yet. Let me know.
Anyway, still thinking out details on how to plan that shit. I'm not entirely convinced there won't be ninjas guarding the stash as the harvest comes in.
So I agree with everything you have said, except for 1). Which I only technically agree with, in the sense that a person can't be bankrupt if they are dead. Yes, I do honestly believe that ninja will murder the local landlord for failing to protect the rest of the chocolate harvest; ninjas in this setting, as I understand them, are actually that petty. And since I don't want to kill said landlord if they aren't raging asses towards their laborers, I cannot reasonably advocate for a plan that calls for stealing from them in that situation (obviously if said landlord is a shitty shit, we can rob them).
Anyway, still thinking out details on how to plan that shit. I'm not entirely convinced there won't be ninjas guarding the stash as the harvest comes in.
[X] Hubris and Greed:
@Immortal Lurker I must say I'm not convinced by the idea to split the bill with the summons but that's a minor detail.
@Immortal Lurker I must say I'm not convinced by the idea to split the bill with the summons but that's a minor detail.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I have frankly grown incredibly tired of this debate.
Here is an unoptimized plan. The words are important and there for a reason, so if you try to copypaste this haphazardly and edit stuff down to try to fit more nonsense in, don't do that. At best, finnangle with the wording to get it down reasonably, but this is all we should be doing if you want to do these conversations.
[X] Action Plan: A Very Important Talks About Things
Go meet Keiko and Shikamaru.(Is one of their secured-against-spying safe rooms free? They have those right?)
Here is an unoptimized plan. The words are important and there for a reason, so if you try to copypaste this haphazardly and edit stuff down to try to fit more nonsense in, don't do that. At best, finnangle with the wording to get it down reasonably, but this is all we should be doing if you want to do these conversations.
[X] Action Plan: A Very Important Talks About Things
Go meet Keiko and Shikamaru.(Is one of their secured-against-spying safe rooms free? They have those right?)
- Using the 7P trade stuff as an opportunity to present Asuma something nice and beneficial to the village.
- We can also use this as an opportunity to get back in his good graces by doing this in a manner thats aligned with his desires by checking with him first before finalizing anything.
- You are confident that this represents a massive benefit logistically that impacts many aspects of the current shinobi paradigm, up to and including intelligence gathering, emergency first aid, and the instantaneous transfer of goods and equipment across the human path.
- One could use the network to ferry buckets of seals across hundreds of miles just as easily as they could bushels of grain or bundles of bullion.
- And if the trade isn't there yet on the nation-scale, this network lowers the effort bar for trade volume to rise.
- Its obviously intensely profitable to all those invovlved—i.e., us.
- Would you two mind running some projections that we could show to Asuma?
- Related 7P matter:
- Inform Keiko about the puppy transport mission Cannai has tasked you to do.
- Request some assistance.
- Do they have engineers they can spare? Perhaps similar designs? Suggestions for building materials?
- You're not sure if the Frozen Skein or... Nara smartyness would be helpful in optimizing results in an engineering problem. Probably not, right?
- The puppies are in danger and you just want this done as quickly as possible
- In Uplift terms, it would also give the engineers a novel project to work on, and a way for their students to apply what they've learned into a practical form. Seems aligned with the sort of thing you want to do, Keiko?
- Have a quick private chat with Keiko if they don't mind.
- Okay. This has nothing to do with the previous secret talk thing.
- If we told you we had a secret that was potentially incredibly dangerous to tell ANYONE —potentially cataclysmic so far as we know— would you want to us to tell you it if you stood to gain something from it?
- It's Super Ultra Gōketsu Clan Secrets and given the nature of it you'd have to actively work to keep it from leaking to anyone else. Which might be difficult, because you're surrounded by geniuses and double geniuses...
- Mull her answer over. Don't actually spill the beans yet.
- Okay, now, what if we said that there was a way for you to... pretty much get the benefits alluded to but without actually knowing the thing. You'd have to trust us...
- Advise her quite strongly to train Shadow Clone to the point where she can use it for a few hours, and to train up Resolve.
- Unless this conflicts with what you want to do with Snowflake. In which case, maybe do this after you've figured more about that out.
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- Location
- Yes.
[X] Action Plan: A Very Important Talks About Things
So, uh...this is referring to when Keiko told us to talk to Ami about our Out-episode?
I am guessing that you mean to ask if we could tell her how to take advantage of the THING without actually knowing the THING? As written, I had to think for a few moments to understand what this was saying.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
If we're going to do that (which I recommend against), we should talk with Ami before hand. She has experience with Orochimaru, and could dispense advice. Also, it would give Ami more screentime.
[X] Action Plan: Illuminating the Path
[X] Action Plan: A Very Important Talks About Things
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
You can cut the Shadow Clone bit out and just do the Resolve. Doesnt really matter.
The Yuno thing.
I still don't want her to know about FOOM, because I fear the secret will be out soon in that case. Shikamaru will know or figure out, so will Ami, etc. I think it's fine to keep clan secrets from her just as she keeps clan secrets from us.
Speaking of which, did we ever learn what happened to the Yuno/Noburi/Neiji mission?
Speaking of which, did we ever learn what happened to the Yuno/Noburi/Neiji mission?
- Location
- Yes.
Oh, right, that secret conversation.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
TBH, I've already thought of about three ways to use "High shadow clone, high resolve" to conquer the shinobi world or end it, so this doesn't narrow it down
[X] Action Plan: A Very Important Talks About Things
If the merchant lose their chocolate instead of the landlord, the merchant might die instead. Either way, we need to steal the chocolate no matter how petty their ninja lords are.
Also, our monopoly position is far far more important than a landlord's safety at the hand of their abusive overlord. The moral consequences for failure will be greater. We will be bankrupt, unable to advance our uplift position.
In any case, if you don't want to be put in some other shady situation, we need to tell Mari that she need to stop that kinda scheming. In any case, we already ruined other farms. If ninja lords want to spite their own face by killing half of competent management/petty nobility for a temporary setback, that is their problem. That only makes it easier for Leaf or Mist to exert their influence.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
This is interesting, but I would prefer we do this at some point after finishing our first Dog mission, cementing our status as the Summoner, and waiting a bit so Noburi and Hazou (likewise to some extent Neji and ...) can actually acquire some decent contracts.
Similarly, there's some other stuff we can do here with this that I'd prefer to explicitly do. Namely, get Asuma's permission first, get an optimal route going, and then assemble the strike teams for the Mother of All Chakra Beast Clears and head out.
Asuma's clearly a bit pissy with some folks (Us, Nara) so "We'll do this for free." will probably get us in his good books. I expect this to be sufficient argument to persuade all involved. Ra ra will of fire etc. etc.
I have frankly grown incredibly tired of this debate.
Here is an unoptimized plan. The words are important and there for a reason, so if you try to copypaste this haphazardly and edit stuff down to try to fit more nonsense in, don't do that. At best, finnangle with the wording to get it down reasonably, but this is all we should be doing if you want to do these conversations.
[X] Action Plan: A Very Important Talks About Things
Go meet Keiko and Shikamaru.(Is one of their secured-against-spying safe rooms free? They have those right?)
- Using the 7P trade stuff as an opportunity to present Asuma something nice and beneficial to the village.
- We can also use this as an opportunity to get back in his good graces by doing this in a manner thats aligned with his desires by checking with him first before finalizing anything.
- You are confident that this represents a massive benefit logistically that impacts many aspects of the current shinobi paradigm, up to and including intelligence gathering, emergency first aid, chakra transfers, and the instantaneous transfer of goods and equipment across the human path.
- One could use the network to ferry buckets of seals across hundreds of miles just as easily as they could bushels of grain or bundles of bullion.
- And if the trade isn't there yet on the nation-scale, this network lowers the effort bar for trade volume to rise.
- Its obviously intensely profitable to all those invovlved—i.e., us.
- Would you two mind running some projections that we could show to Asuma?
- Related 7P matter:
- Inform Keiko about the puppy transport mission Cannai has tasked you to do.
- Request some assistance.
- Do they have engineers they can spare? Perhaps similar designs? Suggestions for building materials?
- You're not sure if the Frozen Skein or... Nara smartyness would be helpful in optimizing results in an engineering problem. Probably not, right?
- The puppies are in danger and you just want this done as quickly as possible
- Have a quick private chat with Keiko if they don't mind.
- Okay. This has nothing to do with the previous secret talk thing.
- If we told you we had a secret that was potentially incredibly dangerous to tell ANYONE —potentially cataclysmic so far as we know— would you want to us to tel you it if you stood to gain something? Even if there are risks involved?
- You wouldn't be able to tell another soul, living or dead, either. It's that secret.
- Mull her answer over. Don't actually spill the beans yet.
- Okay, now, what if we said that there was a way for you to... pretty much get the benefits alluded to but without actually knowing the thing. You'd have to trust us...
- Advise her quite strongly to train Shadow Clone to the point where she can use it for a few hours, and to train up Resolve.
- Unless this conflicts with what you want to do with Snowflake. In which case, maybe do this after you've figured more about that out.
OK? We're not going to ask the family for feedback before telling Keiko?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I'll save you the trouble:
MARI: *says nothing that commits one way or another but nevertheless increases the complexity of the problem by pointing out various angles*
NOBURI: You do you bro, but it sounds ok to me if you phrase it that way.
AKANE: I mean, I trust you and Keiko to figure out a way to keep it secret from everyone else...
HAZOU: *thumbsup*
- Location
- Yes.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Hazou considers this.
Can add a "I'll get back to you after some more deliberation." underneath that point.
- Location
- Yes.
Ah, I see. Still seems strange to me, but I think that may be due to where that part is placed. Maybe you could put it at the very end, so that the conversation is framed as "Here is hypothetical benefit X, you need to keep it a secret, here is another option Y which lets you get X without knowing the secret, do you still want to know X? I'll get back to you later <glances at walls>"?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I would have to remove the bits where we tell her about training SC and Resolve for this to fit IMO.
- Location
- Yes.
Ah, sorry, could you explain? I'm not seeing the issue...
Would moving the SC/Resolve bits to the end as well work? I personally don't but could be wrong.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
So as it stands:
1) Ask Keiko about telling her secretz
2) Listen and mull over her response. Dont tell secretz just yet.
3) Give Keiko alternative thing she might prefer, but emphasize it requires her to trust you.
4) Advise her to train X and Y.
If we put 2) at the end it looks awkward conversationally, we're responding to something previously said and not whatever the immediate conversational topic is.
The point in the ordering is along the lines of "I'm still not sure I can tell you that right now... but I can safely tell you this I think: You will have to trust me that doing this will work out, but you should ..."
Edit: And if we start glancing about for spies we shouldnt even be telling her *that*.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
I don't really like @MMKII's section on FOOM.
I pretty much see three viable approaches here:
This is vague to the point of uselessness. How does this secret benefit her? How major are the benefits? How immediate and cataclysmic the consequences of an OPSEC breach? How difficult would it be to hide, what shape does benefiting from it takes? All of it significantly impacts whether she'd want to know it. With such a vague wording, she's almost definitely going to say "no" because she's Keiko, and then she'll be all tragic and dramatic and depressed about how the rift between her and the Gouketsu is widening by the day.
And this basically spells the secret out.
I pretty much see three viable approaches here:
- Just tell her to train Resolve/meditate with no explanation, asking her to just trust you on this and to come to you if she figures anything out. No talk of "secrets", nothing.
- Tell her everything, ask her to honestly evaluate if she'd be tempted to tell Ami, and if "yes" to come to you first.
- Don't tell her.
- Meet with Keiko (max-privacy).
- Explain FOOM.
- CCnJ: It could potentially massively empower Ami too, and you're confident she's capable of getting SC and a Wakahisa if she really tires. Keiko trusts Ami, would want to protect her. Ask Keiko to honestly evaluate whether she would be tempted to, by the same logic she divulged Ami's secret to you, divulge this secret to Ami? Would Snowflake be?
- If yes: Ask her to speak to you first if she's ever inclined to do that.
- Discuss how to maintain INFOSEC against Shikamaru/Ami. Examples:
- Do everything on the Seventh Path, both training and chakra transfer.
- Start sending Snowflake into the Gouketsu Compound under the excuse of "re-establishing relationships".
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- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Busy morning, but my thoughts are thus:
+Use CCnJ with Keiko (about our feelings, not about FOOM). Her ego is fragile right now and this might make her think we don't trust/love her.
+Keep away from the Sannin, but consult with Ami and Mari if we're not going to do that. If we meet with Orochimaru, do so with Asuma present (after talking to Asuma about the meeting, to be on the same page before the social battle).
+Let's get our new summon some battle experience, but without humiliation. He needs a punch in the face, but we should abide by Uplift and not use him as a punching bag for jonin.
+Ami's been suspiciously absent from the recent updates. What does she think about the new law (does in infringe upon her obsession with freedom and agency)?
+What's Haru up to? Is he okay with the new law (something something, making slavery to clans more enticing, something something)
+Land is cleared, let's build the acquduct.
+Use CCnJ with Keiko (about our feelings, not about FOOM). Her ego is fragile right now and this might make her think we don't trust/love her.
+Keep away from the Sannin, but consult with Ami and Mari if we're not going to do that. If we meet with Orochimaru, do so with Asuma present (after talking to Asuma about the meeting, to be on the same page before the social battle).
+Let's get our new summon some battle experience, but without humiliation. He needs a punch in the face, but we should abide by Uplift and not use him as a punching bag for jonin.
+Ami's been suspiciously absent from the recent updates. What does she think about the new law (does in infringe upon her obsession with freedom and agency)?
+What's Haru up to? Is he okay with the new law (something something, making slavery to clans more enticing, something something)
+Land is cleared, let's build the acquduct.
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