Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
While I agree with your earlier points, it seems unlikely to me that Ami won't know the "experience-gaining" piece, especially because I wouldn't put it completely past her to try and learn it primarily for the kicks involved.
If we emphasize the dangers to Ami of learning FOOM, mainly that it's a state secret that might get her killed by Leaf and that it might have unforeseen interactions with her Frozen Skein given that she seems to be a very unique Mori, we should be able to forestall Keiko telling her. And at some point we need to decide if we trust Keiko as our sister. I don't see Ami knowing FOOM as advancing any of Keiko's plans in a way analogous to Hazou talking about being willing to betray trust for Uplift given the immense future benefit.
Ami isn't even a Nara, so there's no clan secret conflict, and if she ends up betraying the secret we have a strong argument of how she thinks it's important to keep Nara secrets but not our secrets and how unfair and double-sided that is, especially when we're trying to help you with Nara!Uplift and the clan concubine law. Additionally, if it turns out we can trust her with this, we can probably trust her with anything, and if we can't it would be good to know before we start expanding our capabilities with summons, the trade network, and FOOM.
@MMKII I'll vote for your plan if you add a line about explaining why it would be bad for Ami if Ami figures it out.
Nah, Ami's brighter then your average speck of sand, she knows that already, and so does Keiko. She's capable of figuring everything on her own without Keiko's help; That was just idle speculation on my part.
I was more concerned about her getting it from someone else.
EDIT: You do make good points about the Nara bit; I am in favour of trusting Keiko because we can't really be us without trusting the Three from the Swamp reservationlessly.
EDIT2: whatever other priorities she might have, Keiko'd still be Team Uplift if she was married to Zabuza(impossible, of course; it remains illegal to marry oneself).
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- Location
- Yes.
MARI: Fair. *attempts to sob internally before realizing that she doesn't really care*
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] Action Plan: A Very Important Talks About Things
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I actually don't think Ami would do it for shits and giggles. She strikes me as a very driven person. Her Ami-training is to keep herself in check (or the Mori Voice at bay, if we go by Ami's advice to Hazou about the Out Infection), her flightiness is to keep Hazou on his toes (and we've already seen how she adjusts her interactions with others to get the result she wants), and everything she does and everything she is seems to be in service to her Ultimate Goal --yet, it's also something she'd abandon in a heartbeat if achieving it meant that she'd lose her freedom/agency/autonomy.
And since learning SC is something that would very much endanger her life --which means no Ultimate Goal or freedom --I don't think Ami would go for it. Ami and Keiko both agree that Ami's a physical coward, so I think that aspect of her personality would only compound her disinterest in SC-style FOOM --given the consequences.
I suspect that we might have different mental portraits of Ami --and that's okay, doubly so since so little is actually confirmed about her.
A Hazou who distrusts Mari is on a bad track, and lets go pretty damn far to avoid that. A Hazou who distrusts Kagome is probably going to die. A Hazou who distrusts Akame is an utterly miserable idiotic cruel clown. A Hazou who distrusts Kei or Nobby should result in the Hive getting a new character.MARI: Fair. *attempts to sob internally before realizing that she doesn't really care*
EDIT:
Somewhat different; I also think she'd be intrigued by the implications of what 'her without the bloodline limit' looks like as a person and that she's not likely to pursue one goal when she can win at several.
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I meant more emphasizing to Keiko that telling Ami won't result in any concrete benefit for Ami, and that it would be dangerous. I agree that Keiko is for sure intelligent and amazing at analysis, but her assessment of her own 'worthlessness' and the almost-fiasco at the Chunin Exams (and the actual interpersonal fiasco involving Ami at the Chunin Exams) shows she has cognitive blindspots and can lack objectivity. This could potentially be a touchy subject, especially with Snowflake, and that lends me towards explicitly spelling everything out (CCnJ) instead of relying on her to make deductions.
I'm also in favor of trusting Keiko as well. OPSEC breaches are never great, but it's not fun to have constant arguments if we can trust someone we've been with since Chapter 1. Similarly, at some point we need to become comfortable enough in Leaf that we aren't anticipating betrayal to the point we have to go 2 hours outside of it to have any truly important conversation.
Hmm. If we want to state the obvious to her, make it clear that this is something we consider obvious to all involved. Still, the only reason I can think of giving the tecchnique to Mori outside of ones we might actually approve of if we discussed (I.E. everyone involved being in direct and present physical threat by S-rank ninja) or Ami being manipulative of Keiko for Ami's personal gain, which I actually do not expect of her (Ami certainly values Keiko and does not want to take advantage of her) are self-centered ones Keiko would not be biased to by her misjudgements of herself. And I think it would be taken as a sign of disrespect to Keiko's intelligence that we wouldn't trust her on this; she has some cognitive blindspots, but this isn't in those.
By the way, this whole discussion was oriented to the future, rather then the plan for this turn; I have not seen any plans showing an immediate discussion.
By the way, this whole discussion was oriented to the future, rather then the plan for this turn; I have not seen any plans showing an immediate discussion.
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- Location
- United States
We still have two adoption spots, right? I know a jonin is unlikely to join, but it's worth mentioning, and we should really use them before they expire.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
We started with two and spent one on Akane. We bought one from the Daisho and used it on Haru. We have one open now and it's reserved for Yuno once she finally makes up her mind.
If we want to adopt someone else, like Kadokura Ruri or Sakura or Noda or no. 4 on Noburi's list, we'll need either confirmation that Yuno isn't marrying Noburi or to have bought more adoption slots. Regarding that, though, there are currently plans in place to possibly buy adoption slots from the Amori as part of our machinations regarding the grape-producing land and the Amori's winemaking aspirations.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I dont think Id be able to do that.
Yadda yadda its in there yadda yadda.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Overall, the plan is not bad, but I would still like to have the Keiko conversation more. I suggest we table these suggestions for next week, once the mine is cleared
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
For what it's worth, I'm okay with this.
- Location
- Yes.
Just wanna check to make sure: We are OK with telling Shikamaru and Asuma about using Noburi to shuttle chakra to fronts? Just wanted to make sure, since Jiraiya said this was a sort of ace-in-the-hole sort of thing which seems to me an implied clan secret.
After thinking it over even if we give the hints in higher OPSEC. Keiko herself can still deduce the answer easily. So we'd be foisting the leakage responsibilities/conflict of loyalties on her instead of letting her decide. So I've removed the hints. Also removed mention of 7path chakra transfers but I might add that back in depending on opinion.
also removed mull her answer over line. if she says she can handle the secret no need to wait any longer.
[X] Action Plan: A Very Important Talks About Things, No Hints
Go meet Keiko and Shikamaru.(Is one of their secured-against-spying safe rooms free? They have those right?)
Training Condoru sounds like too much of a time sink even with SC. So
[x] (Candoru) Yes, with the understanding that I have significantly more spare chakra than time. If you are willing to assign someone to train Candoru when I am busy, then they can train on the human path without having to hold back or limit themselves to the rules of a spare.
[x] (Candoru) No. [Hazō will come up with an appropriately respectful wording]
also removed mull her answer over line. if she says she can handle the secret no need to wait any longer.
[X] Action Plan: A Very Important Talks About Things, No Hints
Go meet Keiko and Shikamaru.(Is one of their secured-against-spying safe rooms free? They have those right?)
- Using the 7P trade stuff as an opportunity to present Asuma something nice and beneficial to the village.
- We can also use this as an opportunity to get back in his good graces by doing this in a manner thats aligned with his desires by checking with him first before finalizing anything.
- You are confident that this represents a massive benefit logistically that impacts many aspects of the current shinobi paradigm, up to and including intelligence gathering, emergency first aid, and the instantaneous transfer of goods and equipment across the human path.
- One could use the network to ferry buckets of seals across hundreds of miles just as easily as they could bushels of grain or bundles of bullion.
- And if the trade isn't there yet on the nation-scale, this network lowers the effort bar for trade volume to rise.
- Its obviously intensely profitable to all those invovlved—i.e., us.
- Would you two mind running some projections that we could show to Asuma?
- Related 7P matter:
- Inform Keiko about the puppy transport mission Cannai has tasked you to do.
- Request some assistance.
- Do they have engineers they can spare? Perhaps similar designs? Suggestions for building materials?
- You're not sure if the Frozen Skein or... Nara smartyness would be helpful in optimizing results in an engineering problem. Probably not, right?
- The puppies are in danger and you just want this done as quickly as possible
- In Uplift terms, it would also give the engineers a novel project to work on, and a way for their students to apply what they've learned into a practical form. Seems aligned with the sort of thing you want to do, Keiko?
- Have a quick private chat with Keiko if they don't mind.
- Okay. This has nothing to do with the previous secret talk thing.
- If we told you we had a secret that was potentially incredibly dangerous to tell ANYONE —potentially cataclysmic so far as we know— would you want to us to tell you it if you stood to gain something from it?
- It's Super Ultra Gōketsu Clan Secrets and given the nature of it you'd have to actively work to keep it from leaking to anyone else. Which might be difficult, because you're surrounded by geniuses and double geniuses...
Training Condoru sounds like too much of a time sink even with SC. So
[x] (Candoru) Yes, with the understanding that I have significantly more spare chakra than time. If you are willing to assign someone to train Candoru when I am busy, then they can train on the human path without having to hold back or limit themselves to the rules of a spare.
[x] (Candoru) No. [Hazō will come up with an appropriately respectful wording]
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Is there a reason why? Is this something you'd want to save for the actual conversation after we "mull over her answer?"
I'm tempted to include the resolve hint. But dunno whether I'm not being paranoid enough about Nara geniuses. And it's close to the deadline, so i'll just make another plan. Only worry is if I remove my vote for this plan and the vote tally shows the second voter who voted on it. How would the QMs count that if it won? @eaglejarl, @Velorien, @OliWhail
[X] Action Plan: A Very Important Talks About Things, Resolve Hint Only
Go meet Keiko and Shikamaru.(Is one of their secured-against-spying safe rooms free? They have those right?)
[X] Action Plan: A Very Important Talks About Things, Resolve Hint Only
Go meet Keiko and Shikamaru.(Is one of their secured-against-spying safe rooms free? They have those right?)
- Using the 7P trade stuff as an opportunity to present Asuma something nice and beneficial to the village.
- We can also use this as an opportunity to get back in his good graces by doing this in a manner thats aligned with his desires by checking with him first before finalizing anything.
- You are confident that this represents a massive benefit logistically that impacts many aspects of the current shinobi paradigm, up to and including intelligence gathering, emergency first aid, and the instantaneous transfer of goods and equipment across the human path.
- One could use the network to ferry buckets of seals across hundreds of miles just as easily as they could bushels of grain or bundles of bullion.
- And if the trade isn't there yet on the nation-scale, this network lowers the effort bar for trade volume to rise.
- Its obviously intensely profitable to all those invovlved—i.e., us.
- Would you two mind running some projections that we could show to Asuma?
- Related 7P matter:
- Inform Keiko about the puppy transport mission Cannai has tasked you to do.
- Request some assistance.
- Do they have engineers they can spare? Perhaps similar designs? Suggestions for building materials?
- You're not sure if the Frozen Skein or... Nara smartyness would be helpful in optimizing results in an engineering problem. Probably not, right?
- The puppies are in danger and you just want this done as quickly as possible
- In Uplift terms, it would also give the engineers a novel project to work on, and a way for their students to apply what they've learned into a practical form. Seems aligned with the sort of thing you want to do, Keiko?
- Have a quick private chat with Keiko if they don't mind.
- Okay. This has nothing to do with the previous secret talk thing.
- If we told you we had a secret that was potentially incredibly dangerous to tell ANYONE —potentially cataclysmic so far as we know— would you want to us to tell you it if you stood to gain something from it?
- It's Super Ultra Gōketsu Clan Secrets and given the nature of it you'd have to actively work to keep it from leaking to anyone else. Which might be difficult, because you're surrounded by geniuses and double geniuses..
- Okay, now, what if we said that there was a way for you to... pretty much get the benefits alluded to but without actually knowing the thing. You'd have to trust us...
- (enter Medium OPSEC first) Advise her quite strongly to train up Resolve.
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Through the Seventh Realm? Frankly, this is a clan secret, but also kind of an obvious one: its utility as a secret is compromised by the fact that 'things that can go across the seventh realm includes that resource we know the Wakahisa can produce' will be an easy deduction everyone we need to worry about has already made. The value of 1+1 can't easily be a clan secret.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hm. Good point. We might want to discuss it with Mari, Noburi, and Keiko first.
I posted an example of how to use CCnJ to navigate the FOOM/Resolve thing with Keiko, if you'd like to look at that. I'll link to it tomorrow (on mobile), but it might help keep Keiko from feeling upset at not being let in on the full secret.