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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Inferno Vulpix said:
Well, it's concentration plus a rather long time after concentration ends, which means that Akane could theoretically drop concentration and re-cast it while the original effect still lingers. However...

We already got an answer to the question a while ago.
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Does it functionally make a difference though whether we can stack it or not? It makes things hotter or colder in a given region. Sure the effect ends, but doesn't that still make the surroundings objects/regions hotter/colder by proxy?

If you had a well insulated room underground, I would think you could just keep spamming it on "Maximum freeze" or whatever to eventually get arctic temperatures in there, purely by dint of the effect chilling the surrounding environment after it ends.
 
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Dissonance said:
Imagine, you are a Leaf Ninja. Your village is undoubtedly the strongest, keeping evil Mist in check until the next time you have to put them down.

Imagine, Jiraiya of the Sannin starts a clan with "former" Mist Ninja that have somehow gained Jiraiya's trust. Jiraiya must have been thinking with the wrong head when he engaged Mari the Heartbreaker.

In fact, the "former" Mist Ninja that Jiraiya made a new clan with only have strength in that same Heartbreaker. Two middling sealmasters, and the younger three members are all the dredges of their "former" clans. Weak.

Imagine, Jiraiya has died. "Goketsu", Mist in all but name, remain in Leaf. Now they send their "former" Mist Jonin to try to take the Hat‽ This blatant level of disregard for Leaf's strength, coupled with what is very clearly a bluff of strength on their part, only demonstrates an incompetence on Mist's part. And by moving like this, they have finally allowed loyal Leaf Ninja to remove them!
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Our political opponents don't like us and will spin narratives attempting to discredit us, despite the reality of our our commitments and contributions to Leaf. News at 11.
 
Dissonance said:
Imagine, you are a Leaf Ninja. Your village is undoubtedly the strongest, keeping evil Mist in check until the next time you have to put them down.

Imagine, Jiraiya of the Sannin starts a clan with "former" Mist Ninja that have somehow gained Jiraiya's trust. Jiraiya must have been thinking with the wrong head when he engaged Mari the Heartbreaker.

In fact, the "former" Mist Ninja that Jiraiya made a new clan with only have strength in that same Heartbreaker. Two middling sealmasters, and the younger three members are all the dredges of their "former" clans. Weak.

Imagine, Jiraiya has died. "Goketsu", Mist in all but name, remain in Leaf. Now they send their "former" Mist Jonin to try to take the Hat‽ This blatant level of disregard for Leaf's strength, coupled with what is very clearly a bluff of strength on their part, only demonstrates an incompetence on Mist's part. And by moving like this, they have finally allowed loyal Leaf Ninja to remove them!
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I so agree! Even mentioning Mari as a possibility for the Hokage position is suicide! A public relations campaign is needed. Get Akane on the job. Luckily someone (my guess is AMI) has laid some groundwork for that with the Keiko fanclub.

p.s. Have people thought about recruiting Sakura into the clan. She is not powerful, but smart and a good candidate to abuse the hell out of seals. She would prob also make a good political agent.
 
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Just want to make sure that people keep in mind that politics are driven primarily by ideology and not by economics, in spite of what you might believe based on political TV shows. We should try to meet with the Hyuuga and see if we can select a compromise candidate so we don't inadvertently cause a civil war between the Hyuuga faction and our faction.
 
Sampatrick said:
Just want to make sure that people keep in mind that politics are driven primarily by ideology and not by economics, in spite of what you might believe based on political TV shows. We should try to meet with the Hyuuga and see if we can select a compromise candidate so we don't inadvertently cause a civil war between the Hyuuga faction and our faction.
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The Game of Hat is not about ideology?
 
Sampatrick said:
Just want to make sure that people keep in mind that politics are driven primarily by ideology and not by economics, in spite of what you might believe based on political TV shows. We should try to meet with the Hyuuga and see if we can select a compromise candidate so we don't inadvertently cause a civil war between the Hyuuga faction and our faction.
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This is less about idealogy directly than it is about convincing the rest of the board of directors of our company to appoint a CEO [though one that with sufficient backing from a large enough subset of said board can pretty much just do whatever they want] that isn't going to hand us the metaphorical pink slip in a few weeks.

Idealogy impacts that inasmuch as there are blocs of people who are essentially already bought and paid for.

By and large, I trust each Clan Head to pretty much do whatever is in their clan's best interest from their point of view. We just have to thoroughly convince them that that is "Elect someone who will not try to run us ragged to the point we all die."
 
dakem said:
I so agree! Even mentioning Mari as a possibility for the Hokage position is suicide! A public relations campaign is needed. Get Akane on the job. Luckily someone (my guess is AMI) has laid some groundwork for that with the Keiko fanclub.

p.s. Have people thought about recruiting Sakura into the clan. She is not powerful, but smart and a good candidate to abuse the hell out of seals. She would prob also make a good political agent.
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Okay, let's break this down into cases, shall we?

1. Mari campaigns and wins.
  • Most likely outcome: Best possible scenario for us.
2. Hiashi wins after Mari campaigns for Hokage.
  • Most likely outcome: We have to go missing-nin immediately, or we're dead.
3. Hiashi wins without Mari campaigning for Hokage.
  • Most likely outcome: We have to go missing-nin at the first good opportunity, or we'll eventually be sent on extremely dangerous or suicide missions until we're dead.
4. Chouji or Asuma wins after Mari campaigns for Hokage.
  • Most likely outcome: We probably have some egg on our face and have to make some concessions, but overall nothing too terrible and certainly nothing we can't handle.
5. Chouji or Asuma wins without Mari campaigning for Hokage.
  • Most likely outcome: Meh.

If we look at it this way, then in the scenarios that Mari campaigns most likely we either get the best outcome, have to go missing nin or die, or have to pay the piper for our hubris. If Mari doesn't campaign, we either have to go missing nin or die, or nothing really interesting happens.

Since Hiashi getting the hat is doom either way, essentially the only tradeoff we're making is aiming for the best outcome and maybe having to deal with some uncomfortable situations if we lose, or nothing particularly interesting happening. And no one ever got anywhere by not playing to win.

Vecht said:
Okay, let's break this down into cases, shall we?

1. Mari campaigns and wins.

  • Most likely outcome: Best possible scenario for us.

2. Hiashi wins after Mari campaigns for Hokage.

  • Most likely outcome: We have to go missing-nin immediately, or we're dead.

3. Hiashi wins without Mari campaigning for Hokage.

  • Most likely outcome: We have to go missing-nin at the first good opportunity, or we'll eventually be sent on extremely dangerous or suicide missions until we're dead.


4. Chouji or Asuma wins after Mari campaigns for Hokage.

  • Most likely outcome: We probably have some egg on our face and have to make some concessions, but overall nothing too terrible and certainly nothing we can't handle.

5. Chouji or Asuma wins without Mari campaigning for Hokage.

  • Most likely outcome: Meh.


If we look at it this way, then in the scenarios that Mari campaigns most likely we either get the best outcome, have to go missing nin or die, or have to pay the piper for our hubris. If Mari doesn't campaign, we either have to go missing nin or die, or nothing really interesting happens.

Since Hiashi getting the hat is doom either way, essentially the only tradeoff we're making is aiming for the best outcome and maybe having to deal with some uncomfortable situations if we lose, or nothing particularly interesting happening. And no one ever got anywhere by not playing to win.
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But that's completely ignoring the scenario where Mari wins and the Hyuuga decide to revolt! We can't risk that happening!

StrawVecht said:
But that's completely ignoring the scenario where Mari wins and the Hyuuga decide to revolt!
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Explain to me again how it's in any Leaf clan's interest to ensure the destruction of Leaf and leave their clans' fate to the whim of the rest of the EN?
 
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Vecht said:
Our political opponents don't like us and will spin narratives attempting to discredit us, despite the reality of our our commitments and contributions to Leaf. News at 11.
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..... Actually, I was attempting to underscore our perceived lack of strength, per those outside Goketsu.
 
Just a heads up if we adopt Anko and Kabuto we definitely would become the strongest clan militarily
 
Dissonance said:
..... Actually, I was attempting to underscore our perceived lack of strength, per those outside Goketsu.
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Idk, I have a hard time believing that considering we have the backing of another Sannin and are also adopting Naruto (and are publically taking on liability to help out the Uchiha, a prominent and fundamental Leaf clan). That should be more than enough to take the wind out of those sails. Also, since skywalkers are public knowledge now at some point we probably want to score some points by letting people know that's what got us into Leaf.

Also we need to get back to outfitting the entirety of Leaf forces with CHAOS Suits.
 
Vecht said:
Idk, I have a hard time believing that considering we have the backing of another Sannin and are also adopting Naruto (and are publically taking on liability to help out the Uchiha, a prominent and fundamental Leaf clan). That should be more than enough to take the wind out of those sails. Also, since skywalkers are public knowledge now at some point we probably want to score some points by letting people know that's what got us into Leaf.

Also we need to get back to outfitting the entirety of Leaf forces with CHAOS Suits.
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Am cool with desigining CHAOS suit mk II, but we need to deliberate a bit before deciding to give it to all of Leaf IMO.

Maybe a watered down version that doesn't contain our super duper clan secrets stuff.
 
We have not yet technically adopted Naruto fwiw. The public perception of Goketsu strength is not going to include Naruto's strength at this point.
 
@Vecht

You have some good points, Marie winning could be great. However in this case the risk is far greater than the potential benefits. First, even her running weakens our political position and can be used against Goketsu (All of Goketsu are Mist infiltrators, they should not get a vote etc...). Her getting elected could also trigger a civil war, weakening the leaf further.

On the other hand, going missing nin is no longer an option for team uplift. The same secrets that got them accepted into the leaf makes them too important to let go. Everyone will want skywalkers and they will kill to get them. Missing nin means death.
 
Sampatrick said:
We have not yet technically adopted Naruto fwiw. The public perception of Goketsu strength is not going to include Naruto's strength at this point.
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Sure but the difference between us and an average clan is 10 chunnin and 50 Genin. Which is why I am pushing so hard to adopt Anko and Kabuto. That will put us at the top of the Mountain before adopting Naruto
 
MMKII said:
Am cool with desigining CHAOS suit mk II, but we need to deliberate a bit before deciding to give it to all of Leaf IMO.

Maybe a watered down version that doesn't contain our super duper clan secrets stuff.
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What I was thinking is basically what we pitched to Jiraiya before. The suits with a bunch of macerator payloads, gasmasks, Kagome shields, and maybe a couple other useful utility seals.

dakem said:
You have some good points, Marie winning could be great. However in this case the risk is far greater than the potential benefits. First, even her running weakens our political position and can be used against Goketsu (All of Goketsu are Mist infiltrators, they should not get a vote etc...). Her getting elected could also trigger a civil war, weakening the leaf further.
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No, this is absurd. There will not be a civil war. That would ruin Leaf and leave everyone wide open to Rock and Cloud. I said literally this in my post.

dakem said:
On the other hand, going missing nin is no longer an option for team uplift. The same secrets that got them accepted into the leaf makes them too important to let go. Everyone will want skywalkers and they will kill to get them. Missing nin means death.
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It's not a good outcome by any means, and yes we will be hunted, but it's the only option if Hiashi becomes Hokage.
 
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Vecht said:
Okay, let's break this down into cases, shall we?

1. Mari campaigns and wins.
  • Most likely outcome: Best possible scenario for us.
2. Hiashi wins after Mari campaigns for Hokage.
  • Most likely outcome: We have to go missing-nin immediately, or we're dead.
3. Hiashi wins without Mari campaigning for Hokage.
  • Most likely outcome: We have to go missing-nin at the first good opportunity, or we'll eventually be sent on extremely dangerous or suicide missions until we're dead.
4. Chouji or Asuma wins after Mari campaigns for Hokage.
  • Most likely outcome: We probably have some egg on our face and have to make some concessions, but overall nothing too terrible and certainly nothing we can't handle.
5. Chouji or Asuma wins without Mari campaigning for Hokage.
  • Most likely outcome: Meh.

If we look at it this way, then in the scenarios that Mari campaigns most likely we either get the best outcome, have to go missing nin or die, or have to pay the piper for our hubris. If Mari doesn't campaign, we either have to go missing nin or die, or nothing really interesting happens.

Since Hiashi getting the hat is doom either way, essentially the only tradeoff we're making is aiming for the best outcome and maybe having to deal with some uncomfortable situations if we lose, or nothing particularly interesting happening. And no one ever got anywhere by not playing to win.
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Eh. The key point missing here is that if we campaign for Mari, then opposition to Hiashi is split and weaker, and we lose out on what we might gain by being the ones who drive the win to Chouji or Asuma. So by trying for Mari's win, we make Hiashi's victory more likely and if Chouji or Asuma wins our position to influence Leaf policy is significantly weakened.
 
The problem we need to resolve(mid-long term) is that, currently, Uplift is small and weak.
Goketsu could grow, but the people that believe follow Uplift are Hazou,Kagome,Noburi,Keiko,Akane and Mari(Maybe?).
Two Jonin and Three Chunin, not enough.
Adoption helps Goketsu, but Goketsu is not Uplift.
First is Naruto, if we can convince him to join Uplift, that would be great, it's also possible, because the Will of Fire and Uplift have points of contact and we don't really care about Hokage-ship: for someone that wants to become Hokage, the idea of bringing with that an age of peace and prosperity must be interesting.

Vecht said:
Also we need to get back to outfitting the entirety of Leaf forces with CHAOS Suits.
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Problem is, like with the Skywalkers, not one cares about a Clan accomplishments that they can use.
We need something "ours", something that forces Leaf to acknowledge the important of our clan that isn't based on "S-Ranker protects them", Clan Secrets in short.
Sadly, Leaf is not an Ally in Uplift, not yet.

Now, giving CHAOS suits to the people that follow Uplift could and interesting plan...
 
Tua said:
If you are referring to the Gankona name those are just some puns I translated from English to Japanese. This one in particular means "Stubborn".
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Nah, I was referring to, as it happens to be, your list of people that are ready to go pretty damn far.

Was reading from phone and it ignores sigs :( I was 50/50 sure it was you, but still...
 
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