Is Naruto becoming the clan head such a big deal WRT agency as far as people are concerned?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Is Naruto becoming the clan head such a big deal WRT agency as far as people are concerned?
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- The Void
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- She/Her
Fun fact Jiraiya told us to sort out who was going to be clan head. Then decides that he'd give everything away in the span of 24 hours. Isn't the most rational decision I've ever seen
We have QM confirmation that the Gouketsu are indeed legitimate, and will continue to be such. We've been declared a clan, and no clan wants to set a precedent that says you can take away a clan's clanship or clan rights.
I think it slipped the QM's minds. They're overworked and can't consider every detail. ...and the same is true for Jiraiya, for that matter. And for the reasons layed out by @MMKII, I believe Jiraiya was emotionally compromised on this topic. He wanted Naruto as family very strongly.
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- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Updated with most of Rafin's wordcount optimizations, also added a line to the Naruto section expressing our concerns about Hiashi. Hopefully Hazou makes that work well.
edit: also I'm going to be away for about an hour so I'll catch up on things when I get back.
edit: also I'm going to be away for about an hour so I'll catch up on things when I get back.
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- Location
- The state of Paranoia
[X] Lore Update: Leaf Clan information
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- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
We can always do that later. I for one can see an argument being made in favor of not destroying the Uzumaki name. It too has history. More so than the Goketsu. Hell, maybe Naruto should adopt all of us.
We're not lying. At worst we are a mix of snotty and slightly manipulative for using the Socratic Method.
Sure. In which case Jiraiya really blundered never telling us about that. We should ask Mari plus a trustworthy Leaf politician about that then. Before the adoption officially goes through. Maybe Shikamaru or Ino know, but Chouza definitely should.
This only matters if we are trying to elect Mari or something. Maybe if we officially adopt Naruto and announce that to everyone before he puts in his bid to become Hokage. But if Naruto remains an Uzumaki or we all vote for Chouza then this is not a problem.
The simple truth is that we are weak right now. We are a clan of Mist missing-nin, formed by fiat through Jiraiya. The only things propping us up is an alliance with the Nara and the good will of Lady Senju (who by the way doesn't do politics). We are five ninja of which three, including our clan head, are chūnin.
In any case, neither Hazou nor his hivemind actually has a clue regarding what the most politically correct action is here. We don't even know who we are voting for yet. All of that hinges on wether Naruto even wants to throw his hat into the Hat ring. And after finding that out we should, one way or the other, meet with all three Ino-Shika-Cho clan heads simultaneously and discuss what to do. And then they can tell us about any perception issues that come with letting Naruto keep his clan council seat.
Right now we are pretty open to suggestions and concerns of all our clan members. We have literally no idea how Naruto as clan head would react if he thinks we are all wrong and ignores our concerns. I don't think he will be an asshole but he could well be headstrong. Or simply have completely different priorities than us.
As a clan head I think all of us are willing to never use our power to command Naruto around. Is the same true for him?
Can you vote for a generic Lore Update as well?
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- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
@18scsc If you want a lore update in order to give us more planning time you should also vote for the generic [] Lore Update. Same goes for you @Sentient Tree .
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- Texas
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- She/Her
We have three bloodlines, but at least one of them is no longer going to be a Goketsu bloodline in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if some other clan tries to do the same to Noburi.
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- Texas
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- She/Her
If Jiraiya said to make Naruto clan head, which Naruto will presumably go along with, we really shouldn't go adopt somebody into the clan without consulting with him. Adopting anyone into the clan right now is a terrible idea and would make us look like we're massively overreaching our authority - alongside trying to convince Naruto that it's important that he use the Uzumaki clan vote in order to assure a Goketsu friendly Hokage, it would probably immediately start us off on an adversarial relationship. Can we please avoid doing that? We should go into this conversation with the intent to have Naruto as an ally, not with the intent to subvert his authority and ensure our own. We need to have powerful ninja in the clan and adopting Naruto, even if he becomes clan head, is the best way we can do that right now.
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We are making decisions to make this clan be something that he would join. Plus, we're basically acting clanhead now.
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- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
I am currently undecided wether I should drop my approval vote fore either the winning plan or the Lore Update.
I really like @Inferno Vulpix plan. So much so that I can't think of any additional way to improve it. But maybe I am just missing something. If anyone has an argument why we need more time that is about potential pitfalls of things not having been thought out enough as opposed to being about disagreement with the essential points of the plan, please inform me. I am willing to vote to give us more time for polish and mistake prevention if people think it is needed. But I am also worried about the risk of a plan that aligns much less with my opinions winning if the proponents of this one happen to be indisposed after the Lore Update.
I really like @Inferno Vulpix plan. So much so that I can't think of any additional way to improve it. But maybe I am just missing something. If anyone has an argument why we need more time that is about potential pitfalls of things not having been thought out enough as opposed to being about disagreement with the essential points of the plan, please inform me. I am willing to vote to give us more time for polish and mistake prevention if people think it is needed. But I am also worried about the risk of a plan that aligns much less with my opinions winning if the proponents of this one happen to be indisposed after the Lore Update.
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Agreed on having Naruto on our side being our de facto highest priority as a clan, now that Tsunade has mostly stated her position.
Whether that means adopting him into the clan, or saying that we'll love for him to be family, and if he wants to take some time about the clan decision it makes no practical difference for us - other than having an extra clan vote, which may be useful... It's not that big of a difference. We should mostly make sure that he feels welcome in either case.
What Jirayia wanted for Naruto is family. He didn't want him to be alone, as the single Uzumaki left, on his own dealing with clan politics etc. The most straightforward way of doing that was to pull him into the clan; but we can do all that without the surname change, if he's open to it.
Whether that means adopting him into the clan, or saying that we'll love for him to be family, and if he wants to take some time about the clan decision it makes no practical difference for us - other than having an extra clan vote, which may be useful... It's not that big of a difference. We should mostly make sure that he feels welcome in either case.
What Jirayia wanted for Naruto is family. He didn't want him to be alone, as the single Uzumaki left, on his own dealing with clan politics etc. The most straightforward way of doing that was to pull him into the clan; but we can do all that without the surname change, if he's open to it.
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- Texas
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- She/Her
We're making decisions to make this clan something he would want to join by creating a clear power struggle between our own goals for the clan and the goals that Naruto might have? No, what we're clearly doing (from Naruto's perspective) is stacking the clan with more ninja that would be personally loyal to us rather than to Naruto. This is a terrible idea and we absolutely should not go through with it. If Jiraiya said that Naruto should specifically be clan head, there is probably a reason for that. Jiraiya wouldn't say that if he didn't think that Naruto's goals aligned with our own. We should ensure that Naruto is our ally before we go ahead and take any actions that could have far reaching political consequences like adopting new clanless ninja into our ranks.
- Location
- Yes.
Yeah, I'm not fully satisfied with either Action Plan thus far, though they're both pretty good. Still, no reason not to. @Oneiros @Inferno Vulpix Feel free to steal from my plan.
[X] Action Plan: Party Growth
Word count: 299
[X] Action Plan: Party Growth
Word count: 299
- What did Tsunade say about Mari? Zabuza flashbacks distracted us.
- Get the full BotG story.
- Official Tower reports?
- Approach someone who was there. Minori? Chouza?
- Speaking of...Chouza lost close teammates. Should we suggest collaborating on a memorial?
- Adoption:
- Akane/Tenten: Easy picks. Make offers ASAP if others agree:
- Akane: Make it together – she's already family.
- Tenten: Let Keiko offer – she knows her best.
- Lee:
- He's talented, and all alone after Gai's death.
- Can we mitigate his personality to minimize friction? Soundproofing, house rules...?
- Inter-village adoption (Doigama, Kato...): Subject of consideration?
- Akane/Tenten: Easy picks. Make offers ASAP if others agree:
- Family matters:
- Mari: How was your day? Did you accomplish your goal?
- Kagome:
- Give him Jiraiya's sealing notes.
- Is he willing to teach adoptees sealling?
- Noburi: Schedule an appointment with Kabuto to check bloodline interactions with SC/Summoning.
- Yes, we want him to have the Toad Scroll.
- You can also investigate him on adoption.
- Naruto:
- Unless he specifies otherwise, bring our teammates.
- We promised Jiraiya we'd support him. Be gentle and understanding.
- Introduce yourselves. Offer condolences. Answer any questions he has.
- If he asks, give a quick rundown on the clan and our story/motivations.
- Give him Jiraiya's will.
- Ask about the Uzumaki council seat. What'll happen if he's adopted?
- Express concerns about Hiashi's animosity towards us.
- Possible solutions, if prompted:
- Set a ruling that he wouldn't lose the seat.
- Before Naruto is adopted, let him declare an Uzumaki heir.
- Bind our clans so closely they'd be separate only by technicality.
- Other: Delegate as appropriate
- Review Jiraiya's spy network notes. Identify easily-securable contacts.
- Send Jiraiya's letter to Orochimaru to the Snakes (via Pangolin messengers).
- Orochimaru could have faked his death; either way, he should have it.
- Offer Ino our condolences.
- Gather information on Akatsuki.
- Grab their profiles from the Tower.
- Ask Kagome to summarize their book.
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Mari is a seduction specialist
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- uk
This confuses me - what is 'all that happened because Jirayia trusted Naruto'? (presumably negative with the connotation)
I think honouring Jirayias wish that we help Naruto however we can is the least we can do. And if that means Naruto wants access to Goketsus (i.e. Jirayia's) resources, either as actual clan head or simply as a group that has declared strong support to him, I'm fine with that.
Honestly I don't expect Naruto to make many immediate demands, and rather I expect him to be an useful ally in the current political crisis.
Or Naruto don't think that it won't be a problem.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I can see absolutely no benefit from adopting Tenten and Akane to the clan now before consulting with Naruto about it. Adding two chuunin level ninja is not going to be particularly sway his likelihood of joining the clan - which presumably we shouldn't need to worry about - and could only cause strife if he was against it or if it had any political consequences.
- Location
- Europe
OK, I don't trust Jiraiya.
Also , No he gave Naruto the Clan, if he is alive:
We never met this guy, I don't want to give some random guy power over us.
That was never my point. I never talked about Naruto being Uzumaki, I just don't want to give him the Goketsu clan head status.
Besides the point that Naruto was under torture by Akatsuki for a few months and isn't ready to deal with a bunch of strangers?
Yes. Jiraiya makes false choices all the time.
Nah. He was ok, but that's it. He lost the Inuzuka, who should be easy to manipulate (if they are as dumb as everyone portrays them to be). Yet he lost them and got a bunch of minor clans building a coalition against him. Plus all the chaos he faced with the Mist diplomats.
Mari had not that much trouble dealing with the Leaf clans, comparatively speaking.
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- uk
I feel like that's too many scenes, and I'd really like to get to Naruto now. We can catch up with Mari in the update after; honestly I'd even consider trimming the adoptees for now.
I guess that means I just prefer Inferno Vulpix's plan?
I think all the clan head discussion is on the condition that Naruto seems fully capable / in the right mind. We don't know if he isn't ready to deal with a bunch of stragers, we should find out; but most importantly my impression is he has *no one else*. (Except maybe Tsunade?)
All the other clans will always treat him as a political entity; Jirayia's request is that *we don't*. We back him, not play political backscratches with him.
And, honestly, that makes sense for us too. We are complete strangers to Naruto, and if we take away Jirayia's legacy from him we're adversarial strangers at that. Whereas if we offer to be family to him (at any pace he wants), we're something no other clan can be (until he gets married).
All the time seems a bit stretching it? TBH other than allowing us to run boardgame night I don't think there were any blunders in Jirayias mist actions?
I mean, maybe the conclusion you reach here should be that Inuzuka are not as easy to manipulate/dumb as the memes indicate? They're a reasonably strong clan, and being underestimated is quite a good thing in many circumstances.
Mari hasn't had much trouble dealing with the Leaf clans because all the Leaf clans were plotting against Jirayia, not her, so most of the trouble was falling on Jirayia.