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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Inferno Vulpix said:
I suppose technically speaking, Jiraiya was never really Hokage proper, just interim Hokage organizing the search for Naruto for a few months, heroically dying in the process and leaving the way open for the actual Fifth Hokage to be elected.
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"Elected"

OliWhail said:
Oh HEY how WEIRD it's ALMOST like there's SOME kind of MASSIVELY DISRUPTIVE FORCE operating in the Elemental Nations

ಠ_ಠ
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I didn't mean lacked consistency from a writing/ world-building viewpoint, and I apologize if it came across that way. I meant, in Leaf the constant changeover recently must be hard for the citizens to have consistency in their lives .
 
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18scsc said:
Huh, any clue where the Inuzuka might lean then?
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Probably the same, more or less. Inuzuka was pissed at Jiraiya for trampling on her pride, according to Mari:
Velorien said:
"Inuzuka suggested Hyūga." Jiraiya had badly miscalculated by offending that woman. Inuzuka Manaka had what she thought of as a strong sense of honour, and she wouldn't easily forget having her pride trampled on in front of everyone whose respect she cared about. It wouldn't have been hard for Hyūga to get her on board.
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Also, you should also add some of Hiashi's other allies, as well as the Motoyoshi-Amori-Kurusu bloc:
eaglejarl said:
"Peachy. The clan treasury is down to about two weeks of expenses and Hyūga just outmaneuvered me on a key trade deal that would have fixed our financial issues for the foreseeable future. Inuzuka is giving me shit about seal quotas and disapproving of the way I do business. If I hear 'that's not the way the Third did it' one more time I'm going to rip her fucking arms off. Motoyoshi, Amori, and Kurusu have formed a power bloc on the Clan Council and are pressuring me for concessions. We've got fuck-all on Naruto aside from exactly one lead which just went tits-up and burned one of my best agents in Hot Springs. There's some sort of clan fight going on in Mist which I haven't been able to get a read on because all three fucking agents I sent in came back fucking dead and, of course, one of them was from the Motoyoshi clan. Did I mention how they've clubbed up with the Amori and the Kurusu? How about the part where they asked me not to do the mission because they had an alternative that they thought would be safer, but I overrode them because theirs couldn't go off for an extra day? Because that's a thing that happened. Now the bastards are oh-so-politely smugging at me in front of the others. Nothing disrespectful, nothing I can yank them up short for, just helpful little comments that twist the knife. So please, Hazō, tell me about how the Merchant Council makes no sense. I'm just dying to listen to your theories about how things should work."
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Velorien said:
"Kyoshō went along straight away." They had deep financial ties with the Hyūga, so it must have been a no-brainer for him to invite them to the meeting.

"Kurusu hesitated, but ended up supporting Hyūga as well in the end." Kurusu Ginichirō was a life-long fence-sitter, but also a traditionalist, and Hyūga would only have needed to emphasise Jiraiya's lack of lineage, lack of clan membership (until recently) and conspicuous irreverence for tradition as deadly traits in a man entrusted with the future of the village. Kurusu wouldn't have nominated Hyūga on his own initiative, but he also didn't have any better ideas, especially now that Nara was out of the running.
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faflec said:
Probably the same, more or less. Inuzuka was pissed at Jiraiya for trampling on her pride, according to Mari:

Also, you should also add some of Hiashi's other allies, as well as the Motoyoshi-Amori-Kurusu bloc:
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I had Motoyoshi and Kursu, I don't know shit about the Amori. Unsure if that bloc was formed in response to Jiarya and if it will still function as a unified bloc or if I can split it between solid Haishi and lean Haishi. Also a little but unsure about if Kursu should be solid Hiashi or leaning Hiashi when it comes to Tsunade. Senju clan was one one of the founding Leaf clans, Tsunade doesn't respect tradition at all really, but at least she doesn't write erotica.

EDIT: Amori is provisionally solid Haishi
 
18scsc said:
I had Motoyoshi and Kursu, I don't know shit about the Amori. Unsure if that bloc was formed in response to Jiarya and if it will still function as a unified bloc or if I can split it between solid Haishi and lean Haishi. Also a little but unsure about if Kursu should be solid Hiashi or leaning Hiashi when it comes to Tsunade. Senju clan was one one of the founding Leaf clans, Tsunade doesn't respect tradition at all really, but at least she doesn't write erotica.

EDIT: Amori is provisionally solid Haishi
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Well, during the interlude meeting I quoted, Motoyoshi and Kurusu acted together in both circumstances, both in supporting Hyuga (before Mari showed up) and abstaining from the vote (after she did). So I'd imagine that they're still working together, but if we can get Tsunade to take the hat, she'll be a better sell to Kurusu's traditionalism and may swing that vote (and the bloc's, by extension) in her favor.
 
faflec said:
Well, during the interlude meeting I quoted, Motoyoshi and Kurusu acted together in both circumstances, both in supporting Hyuga (before Mari showed up) and abstaining from the vote (after she did). So I'd imagine that they're still working together, but if we can get Tsunade to take the hat, she'll be a better sell to Kurusu's traditionalism and may swing that vote (and the bloc's, by extension) in her favor.
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I think our best hope with Kurusu is a vote for "abstain". Likewise with Motoyoshi.
 
No way does Naruto get near the hat until we verify that Itachi didn't like, condition him or whatever during his captivity.
 
18scsc said:
I think our best hope with Kurusu is a vote for "abstain". Likewise with Motoyoshi.
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Assuming we set up Tsunade, we already outnumber the Hyuga's hard supporters 6:4 (Goketsu, Senju, Sarutobi, Ino-Shika-Cho vs. Hyuga, Inuzuka, Kyoshō, Minami). What matters is the clans that haven't made up their mind (Aburame, Motoyoshi-Amori-Kurusu, Uchiha, whatever minor clans would also have a say), which are going to be swing votes in the fight for the Hat. Getting the MAK bloc to abstain from voting is a massive win for us.
 
faflec said:
Assuming we set up Tsunade, we already outnumber the Hyuga's hard supporters 6:4 (Goketsu, Senju, Sarutobi, Ino-Shika-Cho vs. Hyuga, Inuzuka, Kyoshō, Minami). What matters is the clans that haven't made up their mind (Aburame, Motoyoshi-Amori-Kurusu, Uchiha, whatever minor clans would also have a say), which are going to be swing votes in the fight for the Hat. Getting the MAK bloc to abstain from voting is a massive win for us.
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Not sure that Minami would be a hard Hyuga supporter if Hiashi vs Tsunade. Minami hates Gotseku, we don't know about Tsunade.
 
Hm. I think I want to give planmaking a shot.

Word count: lmao nobody gives a fuck

[X] Action Plan: To Stride Forward
  1. Allies
    1. In general: invite to Goketsu mourning, strategy meeting. Provide emotional support, no speeches for those who've lost someone. Plan to attend services, if invited.
    2. Noburi
      1. Parents might've been in the strike force.
      2. There were only three Mist survivors.
    3. Tsunade
      1. Go past anyone that tries to stop you.
      2. Hand her Jiraiya's will.
      3. Are you aiming for Hokage?
    4. Naruto
      1. Insist on talking to him. Allow other people their turn, but insist on having one. Do not be deterred.
      2. See what state he's in. If he's lucid and is okay with talking, talk.
      3. Hand him Jiraiya's letter(s).
      4. We lost Poppa. Jiraiya, now. It sucks, so, so, much.
      5. We didn't get to know him much, but...he was larger than life in every way.
      6. Wait until he's ready.
      7. Wants re:
        1. Hokage?
        2. Goketsu?
        3. Anything?
    5. Akane
      1. Ask about adoption.
      2. Help with Mari?
    6. Mari
      1. Discuss starting over.
        1. Don't go back.
        2. We don't need the evil Inoue Mari the Heartbreaker. Let her die, if necessary.
        3. We need the brilliant Mari Goketsu, jonin of the greater Team Uplift.
    7. Kagome
      1. Tell him about the runup to the attack.
        1. Including giving Jiraiya his seals.
          1. Against Akatsuki, well, it seemed like the only thing.
          2. It wasn't enough.
          3. His final suicide attack was yours.
      2. We'll patent his seals.
      3. You're a top sealmaster. Best in Goketsu, at least.
        1. Anti-Hyuuga, if we don't have it already.
        2. Give all of Jiraiya's sealing notes.
        3. Sealing instruction needs to become priority.
    8. ISC
      1. When they're ready, ask about their plan.
    9. Team Gai
      1. Bring Keiko.
      2. Ask Lee about adoption.
  2. Sort through Jiraiya's will and notes.
    1. Figure out what he's leaving us.
    2. Invite anybody you can find out he wanted to invite to the funeral, or whoever he thought might work with us.
    3. Store his body. There's a chance, now.
    4. Draw skywalkers while reading, if capable.
  3. Feel out (delegating where appropriate):
    1. Sarutobi
      1. Offer condolences. We would've liked to be friends with Chiyoko.
    2. Support that Jiraiya noted.
    3. ANBU
    4. Village Bureaucracy
    5. Uchiha
    6. Aburame
  4. Strategy meeting
    1. Hokage
      1. Who are we pushing for Hokage?
        1. We can't push Hiashi. Leaf, and the Elemental Nations cannot afford an isolationist turn inwards, and absolutely cannot afford a fourth Ninja World War.
      2. How can we turn clans?
      3. Coordinate strategies; we cannot win if we don't support one candidate.
    2. Overall geopolitics
      1. We can't win if we focus on Leaf, on any level.
        1. Rock and Cloud are likely stronger, let alone Akatsuki.
      2. Aim for international alliances and cooperation.
      3. Strengthen Sand, Mist, and minor ties.
      4. Send out feelers towards Rock and Cloud. Coordinate, if not ally, against Akatsuki.
    3. Akatsuki
      1. Gather remaining information.
      2. Try to figure out next likely move.
  5. Mourning
    1. MEW granite surface at compound. Carve Jiraiya's name in.
    2. Read his will. Bequeath as per his request.
    3. Take turns reminiscing.
 
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huhYeahGoodPoint said:
Hm. I think I want to give planmaking a shot.

Word count: 299

[X] Action Plan: To Stride Forward
  1. Meeting allies individually
    1. In general: invite to Goketsu mourning. Invite allies to strategy meeting.
    2. Noburi
      1. Parents might've been in the strike force.
      2. There were only three Mist survivors.
      3. Emotional support, not speech.
    3. Tsunade
      1. Go past anyone that tries to stop you.
      2. Hand her Jiraiya's will.
      3. Are you aiming for Hokage?
    4. Naruto
      1. Go past anyone in way. Do not yield.
      2. See what state he's in.
      3. If lucid, talk to him.
      4. We lost Poppa. We know what it feels like.
      5. Emotional support, no speech, until he's ready.
      6. Wants re:
        1. Hokage?
        2. Goketsu?
        3. Anything?
    5. Mari
      1. Emotional support until safe.
      2. Discuss starting over.
        1. Don't go back.
        2. We don't need the evil Inoue Mari the Heartbreaker. Let her die, if necessary.
        3. We need the brilliant Mari Goketsu, jonin of the greater Team Uplift.
    6. Kagome
      1. Tell him about the runup to the attack.
        1. Including giving Jiraiya his seals.
          1. Against Akatsuki, well, it seemed like the only thing.
          2. It wasn't enough.
          3. His final suicide attack was yours.
      2. We'll patent his seals.
      3. You're a top sealmaster. Best in Goketsu, at least.
        1. Anti-Hyuuga, if we don't have it already.
        2. Give all of Jiraiya's sealing notes.
        3. Sealing instruction needs to become priority.
    7. Akane
      1. Ask about adoption.
    8. ISC
      1. Attend services, if invited.
      2. Emotional support, not speech. Insist on making presence known.
    9. Feel out:
      1. Sarutobi
      2. Uchiha
      3. Aburame
  2. Strategy meeting
    1. Hokage
      1. Who are we pushing for Hokage?
      2. How can we turn clans?
      3. Coordinate strategies; we cannot win if we don't support one candidate.
    2. Overall geopolitics
      1. We can't win if we focus on Leaf, on any level.
        1. Rock and Cloud are likely stronger, let alone Akatsuki.
      2. Aim for international alliances and cooperation.
      3. Strengthen Sand, Mist, and minor ties.
      4. Send out feelers towards Rock and Cloud. Coordinate, if not ally, against Akatsuki.
  3. Mourning
    1. MEW granite surface at compound. Carve Jiraiya's name in.
    2. Take turns reminiscing.
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Would be smart to add the Motoyoshi-Amori-Kurusu blob to the "feel out" portion .
 
Shadowwarp said:
Becoming the voice of the clanless ninja in this chaotic isn't a bad idea by far, but remember this is multi-clan oligarchy. Ultimately it's the clanheads who will vote in the new hokage, I'm not sure if what some civilian born ninja will change anything.
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So I haven't come anywhere close to getting caught up in the thread after the update, but here's my ideas anyway:

1. Do we actually know for a fact that Hiashi will hold enough of a grudge to try and subtly kill us? My impression was that Jiraiya was exaggerating in order to give us a common enemy and reason to follow his ideas.
2. What if we threw our support behind Hiashi? We still have a vote as Clan Gōketsu, is there any way we could make ourselves indispensable to him? Or at least useful enough to make it not worth getting us killed?
3. Could we try doing something like what Ami did? As soon as we get back start organizing a union of clanless nin, and maybe a few powerful civilians or sympathetic clan nin if we can find any. This would be the perfect time to do so, with many clans having lost a lot of chunin and jonin in the battle.
 
Sentient Tree said:
So I haven't come anywhere close to getting caught up in the thread after the update, but here's my ideas anyway:

1. Do we actually know for a fact that Hiashi will hold enough of a grudge to try and subtly kill us? My impression was that Jiraiya was exaggerating in order to give us a common enemy and reason to follow his ideas.
2. What if we threw our support behind Hiashi? We still have a vote as Clan Gōketsu, is there any way we could make ourselves indispensable to him? Or at least useful enough to make it not worth getting us killed?
3. Could we try doing something like what Ami did? As soon as we get back start organizing a union of clanless nin, and maybe a few powerful civilians or sympathetic clan nin if we can find any. This would be the perfect time to do so, with many clans having lost a lot of chunin and jonin in the battle.
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1. We don't, but we really shouldn't make the assumption, given how Hiashi's ideology clashes with our own (publicly stated and otherwise).
2. We could try that, but that means we have to follow his ideology (clashes with ours) and we again have to hope we're indispensable enough so that he doesn't try to fuck us.
3. We could, but IMO the Hat is gonna get taken fast and we don't have the time to set up such a union. Ami took decades to set up her organization.
 
MadScientist said:
Wordcount: 360

[x] Action Plan: Excuse Me, What Just Happened?
  • Touch base with our allies. Tsunade first (and give her Jiraiya's letter).
    • Offer condolences.
    • Shikamaru, we know you're grieving, but we need to work quickly to secure the political situation. Is there anything the Nara had in place for such an outside-expectations scenario?
      • Kei, Tsunade, thoughts?

  • Find out what physical/mental state Naruto is in.
    • Sit him down with Tsunade, explain what happened, and offer to adopt him as our brother.
    • If he's sane and willing, Naruto should make a bid for hokageship. Otherwise support either Tsunade (second choice) or Akimichi (third choice).
  • Read Jiraiya's will.
    • Take stock of what he left us.
  • Store Jiraiya's body in a scroll.
    • If ressurection is not possible in the next century, that's fine. Scrolls keep for a very long time.
  • Fill Mari in on what happened.
    • Double check with Tsunade and the clan, and then...
      • Order Mari to protect the Gouketsu's political interests with her manipulations to the best of her ability.
      • If she can't stop manipulating people in every interaction, as she believes, then she can use that manipulation to keep the others safe in a way that we're aware of.
      • Keep an eye on Mari. Order her to fall back if she's starting to get too mentally unwell. Order her to not conceal her mental state from Hazou. Order her to present her true emotions and thoughts to him at all times when it is sufficiently private for this to be safe, regardless of what consequences this may have for either of them.
      • If Tsunade/clan think Mari's liable to make public mistakes: instead order Mari to give political advice to Hazou/Naruto. Still order her to be emotionally honest with Hazou regardless.
  • Have Kagome learn the anti-Hyuuga seal if he hasn't already.
    • Explain the situation. Explain your reasoning for your actions, but understand if Kagome is angry with you for sharing his secrets with the strike force.
    • He needs to patent his seals asap.
    • Give Kagome all of Jiraiya's notes.
    • Now, more than ever, we're at risk. Prepare defences as best you can. Learn Jiraiya's best seals. Put them to use.
    • Jiraiya named his ultimate explosion suicide technique after you.
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So I have minor quibbles with the wording/organization/permutation of ideas here. I think this could be structured better.

Will suggest edits when I'm done getting smashed.

 
Does anyone have objections to involving Akane in the "get Mari to be functional because holy shit we need her" thing?
 
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