What exactly does the thread think 'Gōketsu Clan Technique: Kagome's Bliss' is? I mean this is pretty obvious, right?
It's clearly a technique that performs a kawarimi with a stash of hyperexplosives hidden on the seventh path, but (due to the superdimentional matter exchange) leaves you exhausted for a couple of weeks.

Which is why we haven't heard from J yet.
 
I expect Kagome's Bliss to involve activating all the directional explosives we gave him, as well as a whole bunch of normal ones.

Oh, and now I feel bad for Mari. Does having had no ceremony mean that the marriage counts as annuled? Does our clan exist?
 
I see that Jiraiya managed to crib our special move for his finisher, after cranking it up a few notches.
 
Have we ever actually seen the explody belt in action? Notice how it's a charred corpse that isn't identifiable as Jiraiya? Notice how easy this would have been for him to fake using the tools he had available?

Let me be the first to make that prediction, if and when he comes back. He faked it via the clever application of a few different seals. Probably just a modified explosion belt, a storage scroll with a corpse, and well-timed reverse summoning.

If there's no new toad summoner we'll know why. Those contracts are pretty indestructible, right?
 
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It's clearly a technique that performs a kawarimi with a stash of hyperexplosives hidden on the seventh path, but (due to the superdimentional matter exchange) leaves you exhausted for a couple of weeks.

Which is why we haven't heard from J yet.
Have we ever actually seen the explody belt in action? Notice how it's a charred corpse that isn't identifiable as Jiraiya? Notice how easy this would have been for him to fake using the tools he had available?

Let me be the first to make that prediction, if and when he comes back. He faked it via the clever application of a few different seals. Probably just a modified explosion belt, a storage scroll with a corpse, and well-timed reverse summoning.

If there's no new toad summoner we'll know why. Those contracts are pretty indestructible, right?
...

If someone could do it, it would only be in Jiraiya's tier.

But...

Where would he have been in the fights afterward?
 
Have we ever actually seen the explody belt in action? Notice how it's a charred corpse that isn't identifiable as Jiraiya? Notice how easy this would have been for him to fake using the tools he had available?

Let me be the first to make that prediction, if and when he comes back. He faked it via the clever application of a few different seals.
While I would love that to be true, there's nothing that says the corpse was unrecognisable, and he was already heavily wounded before the explosion. Also, it seems a bit odd that he wouldn't have made it to the final conversation with Pein if that were the case. The Leaf desperately needs to not look weak at this point, so he'd definitely show his face if he could.

No, while Orochimaru is up in the air, Jiraiya is probably actually dead.
If there's no new toad summoner we'll know why. Those contracts are pretty indestructible, right?
Jiraiya's letter apparently lays out where the Toad scroll is and what to do with it - we'll see it soon enough.
 
Have we ever actually seen the explody belt in action? Notice how it's a charred corpse that isn't identifiable as Jiraiya? Notice how easy this would have been for him to fake using the tools he had available?

Let me be the first to make that prediction, if and when he comes back. He faked it via the clever application of a few different seals. Probably just a modified explosion belt, a storage scroll with a corpse, and well-timed reverse summoning.

If there's no new toad summoner we'll know why. Those contracts are pretty indestructible, right?
We have the scroll though, and we would have known via toad to pangolin embassy. If he had faked his death the Goketsu would already know about it.
 
OK, so:

The Argument for Supporting Hiashi's Hokage Bid

Thread seems pretty anti-Hyuuga atm, understandably since he's been butting heads with Jirayia. But I think this is a good moment to agree to play second fiddle a bit and support him in the big picture in return for some concessions for things Hiashi doesn't care about, but we do.

E.g. Hiashi doesn't care about nonclan ninjas, because he has an extremely meritocratic view of value, and no understanding of a situation where a valuable/strong person might struggle because they are missing some prerequisites for their abilities. So he doesn't care; but that doesn't mean he's actively opposed to others helping non-clan Leaf ninjas (to a degree that they don't start to threaten his clan, I guess) - he just won't spend his own resources for it. That's fine, we can experiment with our own resources, and our initiatives should pay for themselves reasonably quickly.

I think the reality is that Hiashi will become acting Hokage very soon, and that will give him *huge* advantage over anyone else trying to get the Hat. Tsunade we'd have to convince, and even if we could - it's not clear she's actually the best fit.

Our main advantage atm is that it would look great for Hiashi to have our support, definitely avoids some succession headaches, our sealing capabilities, and Naruto (assuming we can take care of him). These are significant, and if Hiashi is reasonable we can get support for some of our initiatives and tolerance for others. To our advantage is the uncertain international situation - can Hiashi really push for internal dominance, rather than take an offer and push for unity?

Risks:
- Hiashi is actively evil and sees us raising up the waterline as actively bad. This seems unlikely to me.
- Hiashi tries to off us - seems unlikely if we're willing to cooperate rather than stonewalling him
- Hiashi takes Naruto - this is actually a risk, especially with Mari in no condition to help. If Naruto is not functional, it could be very easy to argue to keep him in a hospital, and then manoeuvre to deny us access. Seems unlikely Hiashi could become friends with Naruto himself; but he could try to isolate him from us, so that we're strangers. A couple months from now trying to say 'Hey, Jirayia wanted us to be family' is not going to fly. We need to be there when he wakes up.
- Hiashi tries to disband Goketsu. This seems very short-sighted, as Leaf does need our seals; and Kagome is something we can play up (not even falsely, tbh he's likely to tableflip if Hyuuga goes way out of line)


I think we should discuss something like this with the team and Shikamaru and Ino, before pulling in Hinata if we want to proceed.
 
With our opsec history and literal mind readers? If he did go that route he wouldn't tell us about is, and he'd be right not to.

I don't get what would be so difficult about faking it like that.
 
btw, Was Hana on the expedition?
She was not. Ren went as the Kurosawa representative.

TIL shook is a word. Irish slang, apparently?
And also American, largely as part of AAVE but not uncommon in other communities. e.g. I'd think nothing of saying the most recent Game of Thrones episode had me shook

Does having had no ceremony mean that the marriage counts as annuled? Does our clan exist?
It does not mean this. I had a minor freakout moment about this as well, but it was confirmed in one of the updates that the *marriage itself* has happened and was legally binding. Clan Gouketsu still exists so far as the laws of Hidden Leaf are concerned.

Whens voting close, 5pm tomorrow EST?
3pm, unless @eaglejarl pushes it back further.
 
Jiraiya always have some beef with Hiashi, and vice versa, and we're letting that color our view.

Maybe he's a baddie. Maybe he isn't. What we lack is confirmation.
 
Wordcount: 581

[x] Action Plan: Excuse Me, What Just Happened?

  • Touch base with our allies. Tsunade first (and give her Jiraiya's letter).
    • Offer condolences.
    • Shikamaru/Ino: First, be supportive if they need a friend. They've just lost their fathers.
    • Tsunade:
      • We would like you to assume the Senju seat so you can vote on the next hokage.
      • Please talk to Sarutobi and try to get him to support non-Hiashi candidates, preferably Naruto or yourself.
      • What do you think we should do?
    • Shikamaru, we know you're grieving, but we need to work quickly to secure the political situation. Is there anything the Nara had in place for such an outside-expectations scenario?
      • Kei, Tsunade, thoughts?

  • Find out what physical/mental state Naruto is in. Ask Tsunade about him (personality-wise) before meeting him.
    • Sit him down with Tsunade, explain what happened, and offer to adopt him as our brother. Would like to get to know him before practical stuff, but we're in an emergency.
      • If Uzumaki is recognised clan then more valuable to both of us for him to assume Uzumaki seat instead of becoming Gouketsu.
    • If he's sane and willing, Naruto should make a bid for hokageship. Otherwise support either Tsunade (second choice) or Akimichi (third choice).
    • Tell Naruto re: Sasuke: We don't know how he'll react to Hazou, since Uchiha's instinctively know when they look at a Kurosawa that they're related and can potentially develop the sharingan. He might think of us as relatives or as bloodline thieves. We've been thinking of him as an estranged cousin, but we don't know if he'll see us positively.
  • Read Jiraiya's will.
    • Take stock of what he left us.
  • Store Jiraiya's body in a scroll.
    • Resurrection just got proved possible.
  • Fill Mari in on what happened.
    • Double check with Tsunade and the clan, and then...
      • Order Mari to protect the Gouketsu's political interests with her manipulations to the best of her ability.
      • If she can't stop manipulating people in every interaction, as she believes, then she can use that manipulation to keep the others safe in a way that we're aware of.
      • Keep an eye on Mari. Order her to fall back if she's starting to get too mentally unwell. Order her to not conceal her mental state from Hazou. Order her to present her true emotions and thoughts to him at all times when it is sufficiently private for this to be safe, regardless of what consequences this may have for either of them.
      • If Tsunade/clan think Mari's liable to make public mistakes: instead order Mari to give political advice to Hazou/Naruto. Still order her to be emotionally honest with Hazou regardless.
  • Kagome: learn anti-Hyuuga seal if hasn't already.
    • Explain the situation. Explain your reasoning for your actions, but understand if Kagome is angry with you for sharing his secrets with the strike force.
    • He needs to patent his seals asap.
    • Give Kagome all of Jiraiya's notes.
    • Now, more than ever, we're at risk. Prepare defences as best you can. Learn Jiraiya's best seals. Put them to use.
    • Jiraiya named his ultimate explosion suicide technique after you.
  • Discuss with the clan on continuing the international alliance to hunt down Akatsuki.
    • Reasoning: 7 S-rankers can kill everyone right now. Let's not die.
    • Can use to force temporary international peace against common foe.

  • Discuss w/ clan, then: Write official letters offering adoption into the Gouketsu to Lee, Tenten, Akane, and Nakano's group, and their families. Have Noburi deliver them and talk to them in person.
  • Hazou writes as many skywalkers as he can.
 
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Jiraiya always have some beef with Hiashi, and vice versa, and we're letting that color our view.

Maybe he's a baddie. Maybe he isn't. What we lack is confirmation.

Well, his 'my blood is worht more than yours' is definitely evidence in a direction. Doesn't mean we can't work with him.

And IIRC Jirayia did say that Hiashi is loyal to Leaf, and not completely evil, just stuck-up and ambitious. Their problem was that they were both close to having the power; if one was way stronger than the other they would probably work with each other fine.
 
Hiashi is gonna be having beef with us, meaning Hazou specifically. Our schtick is uplifting clanless and civilian populations, and Hiashi is very explictly against this.
 
What we lack is confirmation.

HIASHI: ... and so in conclusion: Well, duh. Of COURSE I'm literally worth a thousand civilians. My bloodline is special.

NAGATO: Hiashi Hyuuga,what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may I have mercy on your soul.

INUZAKA: Nah, he's right, ninja supremacy for life.

NAGATO: I expected nothing less, I guess.
 
Hiashi takes Naruto - this is actually a risk, especially with Mari in no condition to help. If Naruto is not functional, it could be very easy to argue to keep him in a hospital, and then manoeuvre to deny us access. Seems unlikely Hiashi could become friends with Naruto himself; but he could try to isolate him from us, so that we're strangers. A couple months from now trying to say

Tsunade is the greatest medical-nin on the planet, and an S-Ranker besides. Taking Naruto from us is not only illogical but would piss of the single strongest ninja in Leaf.
 
every village sent pretty much every able-bodied jonin, or something close to that,
Not really, no. Leaf had forces prepped to go who headed straight to Mist when they got Sand's emergency messenger. Sand's strike force followed shortly on the heels of their direct-to-Mist messenger, and Mist itself obviously had access to their full ninja compliment. But the round trip needed for getting reinforcements from Rock and Cloud would have taken too much time.
 
I'm sitting here literally fighting down tears that Jiraiya's not coming back. I never cry about anything. I don't even spend much time in this thread, how have you managed this?

Jiraiya always have some beef with Hiashi, and vice versa, and we're letting that color our view.

Maybe he's a baddie. Maybe he isn't. What we lack is confirmation.
His speech in the interlude portrays him as almost certainly opposed to our views on helping civilians (we could maybe get him to help on grounds of noblesse oblige) and certainly against our views on clanless ninja.
 
I think I actually agree with Anderkent right now; we need to lose like Kurohige right now.

Bend the knee to Hiashi. Do stupid shit like sponsor clanless to restore Leaf's sealing prowess as fast as possible.

Talk ten years down the line when our "pointless gestures" pay off.
 
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