Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Necromantically: FIGHT ME
- Location
- Yes.
[x] Action Plan: Excuse Me, What Just Happened?
This should go to the front, and we should go to Tsunade first. And also give her that thing Jiraiya gave us to her.
and the clan. They have insights Tsunade doesn't necessarily have.
I mean, technically we gave Kagome's seals to Jiraiya, and I'm not entirely sure he would have given directional explosives or clearing charges to random schmucks.
So Rock and Cloud still have some significant portion of their strength. They are definitely going to be jockying for power, gdi.
- Location
- Potato land
This is how I see our options right now:
- Convince Tsunade to make a bid for the hat. She can beat Hiashi to it, and Hazou can convince her. She was there and listened to Hiashi's speech, she knows what's at stake. This should be our main plan, and everything we do should be optimized with this goal in mind.
- Accept Hiashi taking the hat, try to carve out enough influence in Leaf so that we're physically safe. First order of business should be to console our ISC friends and check on Naruto.
- Leave Leaf, try to reform Akatsuki with Uplift as the guiding ideology.
- Put on Skywalkers and go east, over the ocean.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I'm okay with this. I'm just pointing out that Hyuuga Hiashi is most definitely confirmed to be a complete shitbag.
In the face of his potential executioner and after being asked to justify his beliefs, he doubled down and pretty much said "Yeah, they're worthless compared to us. We are walking gods and should be treated as such."
There is no longer any wiggle room on the Hiashi question. He is some sort of genetics+ meritocratic jackass (@Velorien, Yamato Hotsuin inspired segment??? : > ) through and through.
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- Location
- uk
Hiashi believes uplifting clanless/civilians is at a loss to the 'worthy'. I do not believe that if we propose a way of creating better opportunities for clanless and civilians at no cost to him, he would oppose it based on some principles. (he may oppose it on political grounds though, depending on context).
Tsunade is not with 'us' ATM. She may become one of us, at which point the risk of losing Naruto is lower. Sooo I guess that's one way to try to address it.
Of course there are many ways that ninjas *are* worth a thousand civilians. But that is not what we are trying to change! Instead we're trying to exploit the wasted potential in civilians and clanless, so that even if they cannot achieve as much as say an Uchiha at peak of his power, they can achieve more than they currently are.
I mean, you can probably even swing this into Hyuugas language of 'trials' and 'conflicts', if you massage it up a bit. We're not just giving things away; we're finding the worthy among the civilians and clanless that can perservere and succeed, if only given the right tools/opportunities.
- Location
- [REDACTED]
At worst she's a neutral third party, and even now she's a nominal ally unless she completely disrespects Jiayra's wishes.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Indeed. Honestly, it may not be the worst outcome geopolitically, but from an emotional standpoint it's pretty much the saddest:
- Jiraiya is dead after so many strong character moments.
- Orochimaru is dead (?) before we had a chance to meet.
- Gai is dead, and I'm given to understand some of us wanted to talk philosophy with him.
- Kakashi is dead.
- Zabuza is dead, leaving Yukino alone and Team Uplift incomplete.
- Shikaku is dead, both the character and the meme.
- Nagato's plan was ruined, and Rinnegan's resurrective ability lost to the world.
- Everyone else from Akatsuki, the ones directly responsible for all these deaths, got off scot-free.
- And Hiashi survived.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
[] Action Plan: Excuse Me, What Just Happened?
@MadScientist will you be around to edit this tomorrow before deadline? I need to go pour a few cold ones out for Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Gai and Kakashi.
@MadScientist will you be around to edit this tomorrow before deadline? I need to go pour a few cold ones out for Jiraiya, Orochimaru, Gai and Kakashi.
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- Location
- Academy City
- Pronouns
- They
We can put them in logistics, like support sealing, technique hacking, etc. All the glory goes to the clans still, and conveniently more of the deaths, wonder how that happens. He's not going to turn down a dozen new sealmasters from the Gōketsu, not when they'l Be going straight into his forces.
When is the deadline?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
3pm New York time, I believe
Sounds fine.
- Location
- uk
Well, what if Hiashi tells her she can have a hospital or whatever as long as she takes care of Naruto, and then tries to sideline us? We need Tsunade to actually want us around.
- Location
- Why would this be required?
I know we don't know about it IC, but didn't he just make a whole speech about why ninjas are superior to the rest of the population and that conflict is a needed part of human development, all while making even most of his allies uncomfortable?
- Location
- Potato land
@Anderkent the problem with Hiashi's beliefs goes deeper than just the civilian/clanless question. The slow decay of human civilisation from the red queen's race of inter-village conflict, that is the primary reason for Hazou to have taken up the Uplift idea? Hiashi thinks this is how the world should be. He says this explicitly, by describing conflict as the means of determining who is worthy to lead. There simply isn't any way we can compromise with him.
In more practical terms, I'm confident he'll manage to engineer another great ninja war within the decade as Hokage.
In more practical terms, I'm confident he'll manage to engineer another great ninja war within the decade as Hokage.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Right now, we need to consolidate power as a clan. We should not be making massive bids for Hokage, and we should not be trying to contact Ami. We should try to get Mari to help us out, we should try to convince Tsunade to stay with us as Jiraiya asked, we should try to get Naruto up and functioning, and we should solidify ties with Shikimaru and Ino now that they're acting clan heads. We need as much legitimacy as we can get.
Other notes: from the chapter, I would not be surprised if Naruto's chakra capacity is gone now, and he's just a well trained and lovable ninja who knows tons of techniques and has high quality training. That said, he might have amnesia, in which case he's better used as a bluffing trap card than anything else.
The biggest problems that we face are 1) potential for Hiashi to backstab us, 2) Chaos from other villages, and 3) Legitimately unstoppable S-rank solo actors tied to an ideal.
I think Hiashi is best served by backing him up -- at the very least, it should buy us some time to consolidate power.
I think chaos from other villages is best served by offering our services building large scale defenses -- potentially trying to build Sky Ships to act in this new age of sky warfare.
I think legitimately unstoppable S-rank solo actors tied to an idea are best interacted with by providing some form of continuation of Nagato's legacy, at the very least by pursuing peace. We've started this with our Chunnin Exams speech, and should continue it, when it doesn't actively prevent our other goals.
Things we will need to address in the immediate term include:
My thought is to do our best to not make ripples in the greater Leaf schema (seeing as we aren't the Hokage's kids anymore), but to quietly consolidate power and stabilize.
Other notes: from the chapter, I would not be surprised if Naruto's chakra capacity is gone now, and he's just a well trained and lovable ninja who knows tons of techniques and has high quality training. That said, he might have amnesia, in which case he's better used as a bluffing trap card than anything else.
The biggest problems that we face are 1) potential for Hiashi to backstab us, 2) Chaos from other villages, and 3) Legitimately unstoppable S-rank solo actors tied to an ideal.
I think Hiashi is best served by backing him up -- at the very least, it should buy us some time to consolidate power.
I think chaos from other villages is best served by offering our services building large scale defenses -- potentially trying to build Sky Ships to act in this new age of sky warfare.
I think legitimately unstoppable S-rank solo actors tied to an idea are best interacted with by providing some form of continuation of Nagato's legacy, at the very least by pursuing peace. We've started this with our Chunnin Exams speech, and should continue it, when it doesn't actively prevent our other goals.
Things we will need to address in the immediate term include:
- Kagome and teaching -- I doubt Hiashi will want to let him continue interacting in the capacity he has been. Likely, limit his training to "just offer to tutor people and train them separate from the traditional Leaf schooling system" and only a select portion. We should see about either adopting Kagome's apprentice, or inviting her family to live with us -- we certainly have the space.
- Mari -- honestly, we need her to start doing things. I ain't got any real idea of how to help her, but by golly it'd be nice if she'd help us.
- Akane -- we should offer her the opportunity to join our clan. She's likely to be of significant help with Mari, and she's another capable ninja.
- Clanless ninja -- we need to figure out how we're going to help them with the sudden loss of Jiraiya. Honestly, this is probably what we need to barter with Hiashi for -- just let us do stuff with clanless ninja, after all, if they're really worthless, they'll only hurt us.
- Jiraiya's allies
- Tsunade -- hopefully, we can convince her to stay with us and help us out, at least until she recovers (probably a month for major consequences?)
- Nara clan -- ask Keiko to please hurry up with the proposal thing. Have a discussion with Shikimaru about where we want to go
- Ino-Shika-Cho -- likely talk with each of their heads, offer support
- Susake -- Likely approach him about trying for an alliance (probably send Noburi to do the talking initially so he doesn't freak out about our eyes). Potentially try to get him involved in Naruto's rehabilitation.
My thought is to do our best to not make ripples in the greater Leaf schema (seeing as we aren't the Hokage's kids anymore), but to quietly consolidate power and stabilize.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Good fiction is supposed to make you feel things, so you shouldn't feel bad about me. I'm just going to be sad for the rest of the day, presumably. Thank you for the thought, though.
We don't actually know what happened to the Rinnegan - assuming it wasn't destroyed by the resurrection (and it wasn't in canon) then it would have been right there for the taking, in front of all the survivors. Survivors who were overwhelming Leaf ninja, in terms of people ready to fight. It seems very, very odd to me that no one would think to take the apparently strongest bloodline of all time when it's up for grabs. I actually think there's a pretty good chance one of the Leaf ninja took them - most likely Tsunade, given she's the medic-nin. Hell, they apparently offer a way to resurrect people, if you're willing to die for it! You'd think literally bringing back the dead would appeal to a great many people standing there.
I'm actually extremely suspicious that this wasn't addressed in the interlude. Maybe Kurenai genjutsu'd the memory out of Minori for OPSEC? Would any of the other villages there be capable of stopping this?
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- Location
- Italy
Eh, ordering Mari is not going to go well.
Ordering her to manipulate people is going to be even worse.
It must be her choice, or Mari is just going to feel even worse...and ordering her to present her true emotions it's not going to have any effect.
I suggest less "We order you" and more "We need you, because we are the edge of oblivion and you're our mom" with sprinkle of "Maybe this bond we have is not real, but now it's your choice if you want to make it real or no, to protect this family that was born. Are we your sons? Now that we're in danger, it's your time to choose", ending with "You don't need to manipulate people, if you don't want to, but we need you, manipulation or not manipulation".
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- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I would like it if you asked Kagome if we could get him to start teaching more students
Also we can't afford to be passive here
Also we can't afford to be passive here
We need to push for Naruto or Tsunade to take the hat ASAP
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- Location
- [REDACTED]
Meh, depends how long the update takes in in-game time. We need to start laying the groundwork within an in-game day though.