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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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TaliesinSkye said:
I just had a ridiculous skywalker idea. Skywagons.

You carve a succession of skywalker seals into the ground-contacting surface of the wheels of a vehicle. Make them out of whatever material is convenient. We know stone can work, and we know multiple seals can be on the same object as long as they don't overlap. Ideally they would be all subcomponents of one larger seal so that you could easily turn it on and off and re-infuse it all at once, but it's not strictly necessary.

You'd have a vehicle that could roll on empty air, with seals that needed reinfusing every (seal duration x number of seals per wheel). Add a method of propulsion and you could travel fast anywhere. Sailing would work quite well, since you've effectively got nearly frictionless motion and perfect lateral stability provided by the immobility of the air domes. Speeds could theoretically far exceed sailing vessels because you don't need to push water out of the way.

If the skywalkers have a very narrow angular tolerance for how much wiggle room they grant, you could replace the four wheels with two rollers that have the seals carved such that two of them are always pointing exactly at the ground. The arrangement would look a bit like Fred Flintstone's car.

As an alternative to the permanently engraved wheels, you could stick modified paper skywalker seals to a regular wheel.

Changing altitude is slightly tricky. You need to deactivate the seals on one wheel, use a mechanism to raise or lower it slightly, and then reactivate it. The procedure is repeated on the other wheel across from it. Once done you can go up at a steady slight incline, go down at a steady slight incline, or stay level.

As a fast shortcut to gain altitude you can have a ninja climb way up with skywalkers (or ascend some other way) and unseal something the mass of the vehicle. Then a ninja in the vehicle substitutes it, and the mass is resealed.

If the vehicle is too massive to conceivably store in any storage scroll, you could set up a crane with a counterweight to lift it up with a skywalker to suspend the pulley in the sky. Getting the counterweight up into the sky in the first place could of course be done by bringing the weights up in multiple storage scrolls. Fill a big bucket with rocks or lead bricks or whatever.

The fun thing is that once you're up way high you can set the vehicle to travel down at a slight incline and it will go a long long way fast without needing to worry about any other propulsion. (Put a brake on the axle to slow down at the end of the trip. Also a rack and pinion for steering.) Something like this could work as an actual rapid transit network, delivering a constant flow of messages, people, and goods sealed into storage scrolls.
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Skywalkers derive from Air Dome seals, which are fixed in place. Also, storage seals are cheaper.
 
faflec said:
Skywalkers derive from Air Dome seals, which are fixed in place. Also, storage seals are cheaper.
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Yes, the idea is that the seal briefly activates to create a succession of domes under the wheel for it to roll over, experienced by the passengers as being an effectively flat surface.

As for the advantages of a skywagon over a skywalking ninja, you could potentially go faster, carry passengers, (needing fewer seals in the long run and making it possible to carry civilians) and the trip can be made essentially on autopilot without tiring out the occupants. It can even go 24/7 with people able to sleep onboard instead of having to stop for that. That means it can cover serious distance.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Yes, the idea is that the seal briefly activates to create a succession of domes under the wheel for it to roll over, experienced by the passengers as being an effectively flat surface.

As for the advantages of a skywagon over a skywalking ninja, you could potentially go faster, carry passengers, (needing fewer seals in the long run and making it possible to carry civilians) and the trip can be made essentially on autopilot without tiring out the occupants. It can even go 24/7 with people able to sleep onboard instead of having to stop for that. That means it can cover serious distance.
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The problem with your skywagon idea is that it still required a fuckton of seals. Anyway, Noburi already claimed the term "skywagon" for our airship idea.
 
Shadowwarp said:
Shikaku is here right? He's Jounin Commander, so should we check with him on what's classified and what isn't?
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He is not with you at the moment, nor was he back in Mist. He's either in Leaf and you'll see him in about 12 hours, or he's gone and gotten himself involved in a battle between literally the most powerful ninja on the planet.

Did I mention that Shikaku is good but very far from S-rank?

Jello_Raptor said:
*sigh*

I am too hype for the next few updates. It's legitimately problematic.

@eaglejarl: Can you promise that you won't drop cryptic hints till the next update? I need to be able to work, and if you don't I'll keep obsessively checking the thread.
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I am capable of making that promise, yes.



...argh, I'm way too much of a softy. I don't want to actually cause harm to your career. Ugh. I lose the last vestiges of "evil QM" status that I had.

Hey, here's a better idea: install LeechBlock on your browsers and tell it not to let you onto the thread during work hours.
 
faflec said:
How is the wagon going to pick up and deactivate/reactivate the Skywalkers without being attached to it?
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We modify them so that they activate when they're facing the ground and deactivate when tugged away.

Alternatively, you do something like have two brushes of different materials (two kinds of metal wire, perhaps) that make contact with the wheels slightly fore and aft of the bottom-most part. Have the seals activate when they touch the first and deactivate when they touch the second.

Unless, do the seals work by affixing the seal to the dome after it's created, so it can't be moved, rather than just making a dome wherever they're activated but not being stuck to it? If the former is the case I will need to rework the design to a caterpillar tread.
 
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faflec said:
How is the wagon going to pick up and deactivate/reactivate the Skywalkers without being attached to it?
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Tank tread style would work, I'd imagine:
  • Ten skywalkers on the bottom, ten skywalkers on the top.
  • Deactivate the rearmost bottom skywalker.
  • Move the tank treads one unit forwards.
  • Activate the new frontmost skywalker on the bottom.
  • Repeat.
The bigger question is still how you'd actually build something like this and make it work at more than snail speeds. Their competitor is a ninja wearing skywalkers, capable of freeform 3D movement at ninja sprinting speed, capable of holding a nigh-infinite amount of non-chakra cargo in storage seals, strong enough to carry chakra cargo (likely up to and including humans if properly secured), and capable of resting as much as necessary on Skytowers.

So, more than getting it to move, you'd need to solve a lot of other problems to give it even a niche utility as compared to ninjas.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Tank tread style would work, I'd imagine:
  • Ten skywalkers on the bottom, ten skywalkers on the top.
  • Deactivate the rearmost bottom skywalker.
  • Move the tank treads one unit forwards.
  • Activate the new frontmost skywalker on the bottom.
  • Repeat.
The bigger question is still how you'd actually build something like this and make it work at more than snail speeds. Their competitor is a ninja wearing skywalkers, capable of freeform 3D movement at ninja sprinting speed, capable of holding a nigh-infinite amount of non-chakra cargo in storage seals, strong enough to carry chakra cargo (likely up to and including humans if properly secured), and capable of resting as much as necessary on Skytowers.

So, more than getting it to move, you'd need to solve a lot of other problems to give it even a niche utility as compared to ninjas.
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Yup. As a bonus over wheels or cylinders, plates in the tread are easier to carve seals on.

Advantages are that the ninja cannot move while resting and cannot carry civilians. If you load up the vehicle with passengers and get it moving at a decent speed it will require fewer seals than the same number of ninja each using skywalkers would. If you use permanently engraved plates on the treads you also don't need to keep redrawing the seals over and over again, you just reinfuse them. Saves lots of time and paper.

You absolutely need some automatic means of activating and deactivating the seals for the idea to be practical. Having them activate/deactivate when touched by a particular material would be enough for the brushes idea to work. (I stole it from electric brush motors.) Another idea would be to put some sort of small chakra sources along the front and back so that the seals activate and then deactivate when they come close to each. Maybe another infused seal would work. Or something like a plant, if they can detect nature chakra. It's important that the detection be specifically tuned, you don't want any random chakra use setting the thing off.

With a good wind or going downhill the vehicle has the potential to actually exceed ninja running speeds. Especially so on long trips, because ninja don't travel while they're asleep, but a vehicle with more than one passenger could keep going through the night.

By the way, do storage seals have any known theoretical upper bound on mass or volume? Not the ones we currently have, but conceivable designs for bigger ones.
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
Yup. As a bonus over wheels or cylinders, plates in the tread are easier to carve seals on.

Advantages are that the ninja cannot move while resting and cannot carry civilians. If you load up the vehicle with passengers and get it moving at a decent speed it will require fewer seals than the same number of ninja each using skywalkers would. If you use permanently engraved plates on the treads you also don't need to keep redrawing the seals over and over again, you just reinfuse them. Saves lots of time and paper.

You absolutely need some automatic means of activating and deactivating the seals for the idea to be practical. Having them activate/deactivate when touched by a particular material would be enough for the brushes idea to work. (I stole it from electric brush motors.) Another idea would be to put some sort of small chakra sources along the front and back so that the seals activate and then deactivate when they come close to each. Maybe another infused seal would work. Or something like a plant, if they can detect nature chakra. It's important that the detection be specifically tuned, you don't want any random chakra use setting the thing off.

With a good wind or going downhill the vehicle has the potential to actually exceed ninja running speeds. Especially so on long trips, because ninja don't travel while they're asleep, but a vehicle with more than one passenger could keep going through the night.

By the way, do storage seals have any known theoretical upper bound on mass or volume? Not the ones we currently have, but conceivable designs for bigger ones.
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I think it would be very dangerous wagon to travel in. The slightest mistake could tear it in parts due to competing forces and immobility of air domes multiplied by high speed.

I'd be more excited about some kind of train with simple rear propulsion. Sure, it needs rails and some infrastructure, but it cannot fall apart because synchronization failed for half a second or one seal was out of charge.
 
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TarzanNn said:
I think it would be very dangerous wagon to travel in. The slightest mistake could tear it in parts due to competing forces and immobility of air domes multiplied by high speed.

I'd be more excited about some kind of train with simple rear ptopulsion. Sure, it needs rails and some infrastructure, but it cannot fall apart because synchronization failed for half a second or one seal was out of charge.
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5 seal barriers aren't permanent and only last 30 days. We can't build free standing structures in the sky that don't require regular ninja maintenance.

What we can do is go from kites to gliders to parachutes to hot air balloons.
 
eaglejarl said:
He is not with you at the moment, nor was he back in Mist. He's either in Leaf and you'll see him in about 12 hours, or he's gone and gotten himself involved in a battle between literally the most powerful ninja on the planet.

Did I mention that Shikaku is good but very far from S-rank?
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Yeah that's what I mean
Inferno Vulpix said:
Tank tread style would work, I'd imagine:
  • Ten skywalkers on the bottom, ten skywalkers on the top.
  • Deactivate the rearmost bottom skywalker.
  • Move the tank treads one unit forwards.
  • Activate the new frontmost skywalker on the bottom.
  • Repeat.
The bigger question is still how you'd actually build something like this and make it work at more than snail speeds. Their competitor is a ninja wearing skywalkers, capable of freeform 3D movement at ninja sprinting speed, capable of holding a nigh-infinite amount of non-chakra cargo in storage seals, strong enough to carry chakra cargo (likely up to and including humans if properly secured), and capable of resting as much as necessary on Skytowers.

So, more than getting it to move, you'd need to solve a lot of other problems to give it even a niche utility as compared to ninjas.
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Directional seal explosive based thrusters maybe
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Yup. As a bonus over wheels or cylinders, plates in the tread are easier to carve seals on.

Advantages are that the ninja cannot move while resting and cannot carry civilians. If you load up the vehicle with passengers and get it moving at a decent speed it will require fewer seals than the same number of ninja each using skywalkers would. If you use permanently engraved plates on the treads you also don't need to keep redrawing the seals over and over again, you just reinfuse them. Saves lots of time and paper.

You absolutely need some automatic means of activating and deactivating the seals for the idea to be practical. Having them activate/deactivate when touched by a particular material would be enough for the brushes idea to work. (I stole it from electric brush motors.) Another idea would be to put some sort of small chakra sources along the front and back so that the seals activate and then deactivate when they come close to each. Maybe another infused seal would work. Or something like a plant, if they can detect nature chakra. It's important that the detection be specifically tuned, you don't want any random chakra use setting the thing off.

With a good wind or going downhill the vehicle has the potential to actually exceed ninja running speeds. Especially so on long trips, because ninja don't travel while they're asleep, but a vehicle with more than one passenger could keep going through the night.

By the way, do storage seals have any known theoretical upper bound on mass or volume? Not the ones we currently have, but conceivable designs for bigger ones.
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Click to shrink...
One use for this would be to deliver WMDs without having to worry about a human getting killed in the process. Stick a nuke in the wagon, take the wagon super high up, point it at an enemy village, and angle it slightly downwards. Just make sure you have a very long timer on the nuke.

Pros:
might speed up to very high speeds by the time it gets to the target, making it difficult to intercept.
Doesn't require a friendly ninja to die as a delivery system.

Cons:
Enemies might be able to predict the trajectory and put stuff in the way as a method of interception.
If it fails there's no one around to stop the nuke from going off uncomfortably close to where you released it from.
Requires precise timing for the nuke, otherwise it might go off too early or be dismantled by enemy ninja once it stops moving (or it might overshoot entirely).
 
Sentient Tree said:
One use for this would be to deliver WMDs without having to worry about a human getting killed in the process. Stick a nuke in the wagon, take the wagon super high up, point it at an enemy village, and angle it slightly downwards. Just make sure you have a very long timer on the nuke.

Pros:
might speed up to very high speeds by the time it gets to the target, making it difficult to intercept.
Doesn't require a friendly ninja to die as a delivery system.

Cons:
Enemies might be able to predict the trajectory and put stuff in the way as a method of interception.
If it fails there's no one around to stop the nuke from going off uncomfortably close to where you released it from.
Requires precise timing for the nuke, otherwise it might go off too early or be dismantled by enemy ninja once it stops moving (or it might overshoot entirely).
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Couldn't you just drop it?
 
MMKII said:
Depends on if the terminal velocity of your delivery method is S-ranker interceptable or not.
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Terminal velocity is dependent on size and aerodynamics, with greater size meaning lower TV, all else being equal. The wagon is going to have a lower terminal velocity than any munition that can fit inside it.
 
eaglejarl said:
Terminal velocity is dependent on size and aerodynamics, with greater size meaning lower TV, all else being equal. The wagon is going to have a lower terminal velocity than any munition that can fit inside it.
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I misspoke when I said "TV" there, what I really meant was just velocity.

Anyhow, more WMD design is ongoing. I think we might have a really fun one at the moment (and I know what I'm spending my afternoon on)!
 
If you want the payload to fall faster, attach an impulse seal to the top.

...Now I'm wondering what we would need to do to make a seal that exerts force on an object to make it maintain its spatial orientation (so that the top stays the top and the thing goes in a straight line)
 
eaglejarl said:
I am capable of making that promise, yes.



...argh, I'm way too much of a softy. I don't want to actually cause harm to your career. Ugh. I lose the last vestiges of "evil QM" status that I had.

Hey, here's a better idea: install LeechBlock on your browsers and tell it not to let you onto the thread during work hours.
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Heh, I was joking. I figured asking for something physically impossible would be a dead giveaway.

But sarcasm over the internet is still hard. :>
 
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