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[X] Action Plan: Debriefings and Doctorings

@Roomba if you're still looking for a new challenge, I'm partial to trading a huge pile of salt for the Condor scroll. The scroll is worth much less without the strength of the summons behind it, but even then they might decide to keep salt and scroll. It'll be fun to prepare for that and set it up so that salt is massively devalued before they can find a buyer.

I'm not that much of a fan of obtaining more summon scrolls, to be honest. Pangolins have a major role in the narrative as is; I'm not keen on adding even more summon realm shenanigans.
 
@MMKII, I'm trying to decrease the wordcount. Question: why are we asking Jiraiya permission to meet Hana? Here Hazou went to her on his own initiative entirely. I'm guessing that part of the plan at first asked about meeting Ren, but then she was replaced with Hana?
 
*mentally struggles with trying to reconcile Details vs. Bonus XP*
*looks at the XP award for the last chapter*
*realizes that @Tua has been pulling overtime on the amazing Omakes*

I think keeping it sub-400 is fine.

@MMKII, I'm trying to decrease the wordcount. Question: why are we asking Jiraiya permission to meet Hana? Here Hazou went to her on his own initiative entirely. I'm guessing we first asked about meeting Ren there, but then she was replaced with Hana without changing the rest of that section?
Sorry, my brain has just decided that English is an extremely inefficient medium to explain what I mean here coherently. I'll just edit that section and gesture at it weakly and hopefully all will be clear.
 
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@MMKII, I'm trying to decrease the wordcount. Question: why are we asking Jiraiya permission to meet Hana? Here Hazou went to her on his own initiative entirely. I'm guessing that part of the plan at first asked about meeting Ren, but then she was replaced with Hana?

Clarification: We're asking permission for this inasmuch as it involves talking to a foreign agent with unknown goals (AKA our mother) about acquiring the clan secrets of the clan the Mizukage is the clan head of, and then possibly asking after the Mizukage's opinion of us and/or arranging some sort of meeting (hopefully not one sided, definitely not one-on-one) where we can try to capitalize on our relations with these individuals and actually acquire Shiny Thing (and maybe some other stuff too while we're at it, but thats something to be decided at a later date).

A political minefield, this might be. *shrug*
 
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Clarification: We're asking permission for this inasmuch as it involves talking to a foreign agent with unknown goals (AKA our mother) about acquiring the clan secrets of the clan the Mizukage is the clan head of, and then possibly asking after the Mizukage's opinion of us and/or arranging some sort of meeting (hopefully not one sided, definitely not one-on-one) where we can try to capitalize on our relations with these individuals and actually acquire Shiny Thing (and maybe some other stuff too while we're at it, but thats something to be decided at a later date).
Do we care about meeting Ren for any reason other than getting the Shiny Thing? At least, in that context?

293 words, my suggestions included. Cut only the "Ami is competent" conclusion. Significantly reworded Kurosawa body-language section.

  • Vomit.
    • Enter a public bathroom (privacy).
    • Puke the food into a bucket. Seal it.
    • Eat charcoal. Drink water.
  • Debrief Jiraiya:
    • OPSEC: Underground and/or privacy seals?
    • Recount everything with maximal accuracy and objectivity.
    • Offer your analysis and conclusions.
    • Analysis.
      • Censor depending on OPSEC conditions.
    • Conclusions:
      • Proactive in procuring favours.
      • Possibly acting in good faith: she was sandbagging hard.
      • Meeting felt like a test combined with a warning: we're out of our league.
      • Aside: Hazou needs to up his game. Significantly.
    • Ami's offer: should decline.
      • Couldn't trust that she'll be acting in good faith.
      • Gives her significant leverage: ability to sabotage first Uplift experiment.
      • Owning her "the mother of all favours" seems suicidal.
    • Apologize for:
      • Any mistakes during the meeting.
      • Pre-match speech. You looked alarmed.
    • Ask about:
      • Seeing a medic ASAP. (Potential poisoning.)
      • Update on GS incident.
      • Meeting with Hinata.
        • (Joking) Hazou wants to play in the right league for once.
        • Hiashi sucks. She's ... alright?
        • Her friendship would be a boon.
      • Kurosawa body-language training. Could we acquire it? Through Ren/Hana?
        • What's Ren's attitude towards us?
  • Hang out with Noburi
    • Internally:
      • Noburi always struggled with self-esteem. Losing to Hinata must be hard on him.
      • He's avoided talking about family, but specifically mentioned his sisters... Is he embarrassed? Self-conscious?
    • Commiserate on losing the tournament.
      • (Serious, resolute expression) Good thing Keiko didn't scar us... that'd make winning back Akane harder!
        • Reveal the joke once Noburi has suffered enough.
      • Aren't all the girls we know terrifying?
    • Gently bring up his family.
      • He was upset his sisters didn't talk to him after his match.
        • Wanna talk about it? Any plans to visit them?
      • Might be better to see them on his own terms?
      • Regardless, Hazou has his back, and is willing to go "pretty damn far" to help.
 
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Do we care about meeting Ren for any reason other than getting the Shiny Thing? At least, in that context?

293 words, my suggestions included. Cut only the "Ami is competent" conclusion. Significantly reworded Kurosawa body-language section.

  • Vomit.
    • Enter a public bathroom (privacy).
    • Puke the food into a bucket. Seal it.
    • Eat charcoal. Drink water.
  • Debrief Jiraiya:
    • OPSEC: Underground and/or privacy seals?
    • Recount everything with maximal accuracy and objectivity.
    • Offer your analysis and conclusions.
    • Analysis.
      • Censor depending on OPSEC conditions.
    • Conclusions:
      • Proactive in procuring favours.
      • Possibly acting in good faith: she was sandbagging hard.
      • Meeting felt like a test combined with a warning: we're out of our league.
      • Aside: Hazou needs to up his game. Significantly.
    • Ami's offer: should decline.
      • Couldn't trust that she'll be acting in good faith.
      • Gives her significant leverage: ability to sabotage first Uplift experiment.
      • Owning her "the mother of all favours" seems suicidal.
    • Apologize for:
      • Any mistakes during the meeting.
      • Pre-match speech. You looked alarmed.
    • Ask about:
      • Seeing a medic ASAP. (Potential poisoning.)
      • Update on GS incident.
      • Meeting with Hinata.
        • (Joking) Hazou wants to play in the right league for once.
        • Hiashi sucks. She's ... alright?
        • Her friendship would be a boon.
      • Kurosawa body-language training. Could we acquire it? Through Ren/Hana?
        • What's Ren's attitude towards us?
  • Hang out with Noburi
    • Internally:
      • Noburi always struggled with self-esteem. Losing to Hinata must be hard on him.
      • He's avoided talking about family, but specifically mentioned his sisters... Is he embarrassed? Self-conscious?
    • Commiserate on losing the tournament.
      • (Serious, resolute expression) Good thing Keiko didn't scar us... that'd make winning back Akane harder!
        • Reveal the joke once Noburi has suffered enough.
      • Aren't all the girls we know terrifying?
    • Gently bring up his family.
      • He was upset his sisters didn't talk to him after his match.
        • Wanna talk about it? Any plans to visit them?
      • Might be better to see them on his own terms?
      • Regardless, Hazou has his back, and is willing to go "pretty damn far" to help.

You truly are the wordcount reduction diety.

That works perfect for my purposes. I don't think we specifically care about broaching a whole pile of things WRT Hana/Ren with J at this time. This will be adequate to feel out the temperature in the room on that one.

Edits (likely final):
Rough draft
Real plan! :V

WC: 293
[X] Action Plan: Debriefings and Doctorings
  • Vomit.
    • Enter a public bathroom (privacy).
    • Puke the food into a bucket. Seal it.
    • Eat charcoal. Drink water.
  • Debrief Jiraiya:
    • OPSEC: Underground and/or privacy seals?
    • Recount everything with maximal accuracy and objectivity.
    • Offer your analysis and conclusions.
    • Analysis.
      • Censor depending on OPSEC conditions.
    • Conclusions:
      • Proactive in procuring favours.
      • Possibly acting in good faith: she was sandbagging hard.
      • Meeting felt like a test combined with a warning: we're out of our league.
      • Aside: Hazou needs to up his game. Significantly.
    • Ami's offer: should decline.
      • Couldn't trust that she'll be acting in good faith.
      • Gives her significant leverage: ability to sabotage first Uplift experiment.
      • Owning her "the mother of all favours" seems suicidal.
    • Apologize for:
      • Any mistakes during the meeting.
      • Pre-match speech. You looked alarmed.
    • Ask about:
      • Seeing a medic ASAP. (Potential poisoning.)
      • Update on GS incident.
      • Meeting with Hinata.
        • (Joking) Hazou wants to play in the right league for once.
        • Hiashi sucks. She's ... alright?
        • Her friendship would be a boon.
      • Kurosawa body-language training. Could we acquire it? Through Ren/Hana?
        • What's Ren's attitude towards us?
  • Hang out with Noburi
    • Internally:
      • Noburi always struggled with self-esteem. Losing to Hinata must be hard on him.
      • He's avoided talking about family, but specifically mentioned his sisters... Is he embarrassed? Self-conscious?
    • Commiserate on losing the tournament.
      • (Serious, resolute expression) Good thing Keiko didn't scar us... that'd make winning back Akane harder!
        • Reveal the joke once Noburi has suffered enough.
      • Aren't all the girls we know terrifying?
    • Gently bring up his family.
      • He was upset his sisters didn't talk to him after his match.
        • Wanna talk about it? Any plans to visit them?
      • Might be better to see them on his own terms?
      • Regardless, Hazou has his back, and is willing to go "pretty damn far" to help.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on Feb 2, 2019 at 12:28 PM, finished with 354 posts and 13 votes.
 
Also, what are "OPSEC conditions"?

It's a sliding scale between the time we went underground with Jiraiya in Mist to discuss Naruto and Hazou jumping down during Ino's pre-match so he can debrief Jiraiya by shouting up at the Kage box with the sound amplification jutsu active.
 
Is this a direction that Hazō should not tell Jiraiya the complete truth? Also, what are "OPSEC conditions"?
If we're not surrounded by privacy seals or underground (or both), don't explicitly say the words "Skywalkers." , "Cold Stone Killers." , etc. That sort of thing.

Re: Hana/Ren bit:
Kurosawa body-language training. Could we attempt to acquire it? Through Ren/Hana?
  • Might want to figure out Ren's attitude towards us.
That might be better phrasing? I think this avoids

"How does Ren feel about us?"
"Why the fuck should I know that?"
"Can we acquire body language training from Hana or Ren?"
"How the fuck should I know?

or what have you.
 
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Is it concerning that the part I'm most looking forward to from this plan is Jiraiya's reaction to Hazou's joke about "playing in the right league for a change"? I wonder what he'll think. Happy that Hazou is willing to learn and overcome his weaknesses? Or concerned that he's created a monster by agreeing to the Ami meeting?
 
Is it concerning that the part I'm most looking forward to from this plan is Jiraiya's reaction to Hazou's joke about "playing in the right league for a change"? I wonder what he'll think. Happy that Hazou is willing to learn and overcome his weaknesses? Or concerned that he's created a monster by agreeing to the Ami meeting?
I'm actually looking forward to seeing Noburi have a small breakdown when Hazou says "Good thing Keiko didn't scar me... that'd make winning back Akane harder!" with a very serious tone and resolute expression.

I'm also hoping Jiraiya doesn't take a page out of Hiashi's book and declare us Super Grounded (it's like being grounded, but with yellow hair and bursts of electricity(strange and ironic, since being grounded to me would imply a lack of electricity. Chakra bullshit, eh?)) as a result of that speech/something we did in the meeting accidentally.
 
You truly are the wordcount reduction diety.
Information density is aesthetically pleasing.
Is it concerning that the part I'm most looking forward to from this plan is Jiraiya's reaction to Hazou's joke about "playing in the right league for a change"? I wonder what he'll think. Happy that Hazou is willing to learn and overcome his weaknesses? Or concerned that he's created a monster by agreeing to the Ami meeting?
Ikeda, Ami, then Hinata: perhaps Jiraiya will be proud that Hazou is following in his footsteps.

That said, we won't be playing in the right league for long: don't forget the meeting with the Oyabun in a few days, where we'll be asking him about gambling & books.

My conspiracy of one has achieved unmitigated success by slipping that into a past plan. Soon, the Akatsuki Book Club will obtain the reading material it longs for... or destroy all of existence in the attempt.
 
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On further review, the QMs have concluded the following on Iron Nerve memorization:
  • Motions that are stored in the IN can be thought of as something like videotape -- they record a thing exactly as you performed it, with perfect fidelity. (This includes errors, inefficiencies, etc.) The difference is that these recordings are kinesthetic, not audiovisual.
  • Assuming you remember that the tape exists, you can replay it at will. There is a very small degree of "flex" allowed -- you can still use the IN to walk across a field despite the fact that the field you are currently in does not have precisely the same topography as the one where you were originally recording the walking. The amount of flex allowed is very small and should be considered fluff, not crunch. You will not be able to munchkin it, by fiat.
  • You could therefore use the IN for memorization. In theory, you could even use it to record speech. You would need to create a shorthand system that was fast enough to keep up with the spoken word and use it as the other person was talking. Again, you need to have the reflexes and training to do this -- the IN doesn't solve it for you.
  • This goes back to the videotape analogy -- the fact that you have the recording doesn't help unless you can remember that you have it and "where it is" (so to speak). This is relatively easy for things that you use a lot, like martial arts and calligraphy, but human memory is terrible and if you don't access a pattern fairly often you'll forget how to retrieve it.
If you want to record conversations, you will need to:
  • Come up with a relevant shorthand system
  • Practice using it in order to develop the reflexes necessary. This is not something the IN will help with.
  • Figure out an 'indexing' system so that you don't forget what you have stored.
  • Once you've recorded something you may need to replay it in order to job your normal memory. It's the same way that you may not consciously remember where the keys on a keyboard are, but you can mime typing and then reference what your fingers did in order to figure out the keyboard layout.
We do not believe that the human brain/body have enough bandwidth to do this sort of recording using anything other than the hands, so your system will need to be something manual. This will mean that you can't use handseals or do anything else that requires your hands while memorizing. We also don't believe that such a system can be made so subtle that people watching you won't notice it, meaning that you're going to look somewhat spastic and once people learn what you're doing they will probably be creeped out.
 
Voting is closed.
Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on Feb 2, 2019 at 2:04 PM, finished with 362 posts and 13 votes.
 
Do we care about meeting Ren for any reason other than getting the Shiny Thing? At least, in that context?

293 words, my suggestions included. Cut only the "Ami is competent" conclusion. Significantly reworded Kurosawa body-language section.

  • Vomit.
    • Enter a public bathroom (privacy).
    • Puke the food into a bucket. Seal it.
    • Eat charcoal. Drink water.
  • Debrief Jiraiya:
    • OPSEC: Underground and/or privacy seals?
    • Recount everything with maximal accuracy and objectivity.
    • Offer your analysis and conclusions.
    • Analysis.
      • Censor depending on OPSEC conditions.
    • Conclusions:
      • Proactive in procuring favours.
      • Possibly acting in good faith: she was sandbagging hard.
      • Meeting felt like a test combined with a warning: we're out of our league.
      • Aside: Hazou needs to up his game. Significantly.
    • Ami's offer: should decline.
      • Couldn't trust that she'll be acting in good faith.
      • Gives her significant leverage: ability to sabotage first Uplift experiment.
      • Owning her "the mother of all favours" seems suicidal.
    • Apologize for:
      • Any mistakes during the meeting.
      • Pre-match speech. You looked alarmed.
    • Ask about:
      • Seeing a medic ASAP. (Potential poisoning.)
      • Update on GS incident.
      • Meeting with Hinata.
        • (Joking) Hazou wants to play in the right league for once.
        • Hiashi sucks. She's ... alright?
        • Her friendship would be a boon.
      • Kurosawa body-language training. Could we acquire it? Through Ren/Hana?
        • What's Ren's attitude towards us?
  • Hang out with Noburi
    • Internally:
      • Noburi always struggled with self-esteem. Losing to Hinata must be hard on him.
      • He's avoided talking about family, but specifically mentioned his sisters... Is he embarrassed? Self-conscious?
    • Commiserate on losing the tournament.
      • (Serious, resolute expression) Good thing Keiko didn't scar us... that'd make winning back Akane harder!
        • Reveal the joke once Noburi has suffered enough.
      • Aren't all the girls we know terrifying?
    • Gently bring up his family.
      • He was upset his sisters didn't talk to him after his match.
        • Wanna talk about it? Any plans to visit them?
      • Might be better to see them on his own terms?
      • Regardless, Hazou has his back, and is willing to go "pretty damn far" to help.

I repeatedly suggested actual family reconciliation.
 
I repeatedly suggested actual family reconciliation.
I'm pretty sure Hazou still views the Kurosawa Clan as a whole with a moderate amount of dislike and a not-so-insignificant amount of bitterness. That's sort of written into his characterization. As the clan head, Ren sort of is the Kurosawa, in a sense. Directly suggesting that they try to suddenly reconcile would probably not be totally in character for him. Way more out of character than a lot of things we have him do, really.

HAZOU: Auntie Ren? Oh yeah, I'm sure she couldn't have done anything about my family being exiled to the Land of Overdue Bills and Mortgages for the majority of my lifetime.
 
Should probably also bring up her mention of Y. The only other thread mention was as a family member being notoriously pale in response to fear. Camouflage, shadow cloaking, subterranean bloodline?

Anyway, the important thing is probably their "ironic" death to a light element user. A literally invisible ninja. Perhaps a warning that there might be one around? Has there been any conflict between Mist and Waterfall since the swamp?
 
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I'm pretty sure Hazou still views the Kurosawa Clan as a whole with a moderate amount of dislike and a not-so-insignificant amount of bitterness. That's sort of written into his characterization. As the clan head, Ren sort of is the Kurosawa, in a sense. Directly suggesting that they try to suddenly reconcile would probably not be totally in character for him. Way more out of character than a lot of things we have him do, really.

HAZOU: Auntie Ren? Oh yeah, I'm sure she couldn't have done anything about my family being exiled to the Land of Overdue Bills and Mortgages for the majority of my lifetime.

Honestly, I'm surprised our jokes about making life hard for Ren haven't made it into Hazou's IC perspective yet.
 
We do not believe that the human brain/body have enough bandwidth to do this sort of recording using anything other than the hands, so your system will need to be something manual. This will mean that you can't use handseals or do anything else that requires your hands while memorizing. We also don't believe that such a system can be made so subtle that people watching you won't notice it, meaning that you're going to look somewhat spastic and once people learn what you're doing they will probably be creeped out.
Hm... This sounds like the kind of thing that would be "Kurosawa clan secret technique" stuff, but when I read "The human brain/body doesn't have enough bandwidth", my first thought is "Yeah, without a technique it doesn't."
 
On further review, the QMs have concluded the following on Iron Nerve memorization:
  • Motions that are stored in the IN can be thought of as something like videotape -- they record a thing exactly as you performed it, with perfect fidelity. (This includes errors, inefficiencies, etc.) The difference is that these recordings are kinesthetic, not audiovisual.
  • Assuming you remember that the tape exists, you can replay it at will. There is a very small degree of "flex" allowed -- you can still use the IN to walk across a field despite the fact that the field you are currently in does not have precisely the same topography as the one where you were originally recording the walking. The amount of flex allowed is very small and should be considered fluff, not crunch. You will not be able to munchkin it, by fiat.
  • You could therefore use the IN for memorization. In theory, you could even use it to record speech. You would need to create a shorthand system that was fast enough to keep up with the spoken word and use it as the other person was talking. Again, you need to have the reflexes and training to do this -- the IN doesn't solve it for you.
  • This goes back to the videotape analogy -- the fact that you have the recording doesn't help unless you can remember that you have it and "where it is" (so to speak). This is relatively easy for things that you use a lot, like martial arts and calligraphy, but human memory is terrible and if you don't access a pattern fairly often you'll forget how to retrieve it.
If you want to record conversations, you will need to:
  • Come up with a relevant shorthand system
  • Practice using it in order to develop the reflexes necessary. This is not something the IN will help with.
  • Figure out an 'indexing' system so that you don't forget what you have stored.
  • Once you've recorded something you may need to replay it in order to job your normal memory. It's the same way that you may not consciously remember where the keys on a keyboard are, but you can mime typing and then reference what your fingers did in order to figure out the keyboard layout.
We do not believe that the human brain/body have enough bandwidth to do this sort of recording using anything other than the hands, so your system will need to be something manual. This will mean that you can't use handseals or do anything else that requires your hands while memorizing. We also don't believe that such a system can be made so subtle that people watching you won't notice it, meaning that you're going to look somewhat spastic and once people learn what you're doing they will probably be creeped out.
I see no problem with this whatsoever, would not feel the need to voice one if I did, and I am both continuously amazed that you guys devote enough mental energy to think about this stuff regularly in this amount of detail as well as extremely grateful that y'all have given us an avenue to pursue another shiny Iron Nerve related thing.

*throws fists up in the air, cheering*

Go Team QM!!!
 
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I see no problem with this whatsoever, would not feel the need to voice one if I did, and I am both continuously amazed that you guys devote enough mental energy to think about this stuff regularly in this amount of detail as well as extremely grateful that y'all have given us an avenue to pursue on another shiny Iron Nerve related thing.

*throws fists up in the air, cheering*

Go Team QM!!!
Also yes, thanks for all the work y'all do for us @OliWhail @eaglejarl @Velorien!
 
Hm... This sounds like the kind of thing that would be "Kurosawa clan secret technique" stuff, but when I read "The human brain/body doesn't have enough bandwidth", my first thought is "Yeah, without a technique it doesn't."

It's obviously a game balance thing. The team already has a non-vocal sign-speak and there shouldn't be anything preventing him from simply subvocalizing using exactly the same muscles as the person speaking in the first place, but allowing those to apply would be OP.
 
It's probably worth looking into Iron Nerve ninjutsu. It's not immediately obvious there would be any, but neither was is it obvious that there would be ninjutsu that could be used through the Minami bloodline, or Eight Trigrams for the Hyuuga.
 
It's obviously a game balance thing. The team already has a non-vocal sign-speak and there shouldn't be anything preventing him from simply subvocalizing using exactly the same muscles as the person speaking in the first place, but allowing those to apply would be OP.
I'm sceptical that one would be able to hear/recognise recorded subvocalisation, it by definition being inaudible and featuring very subtle movements.
 
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