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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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I have an idea.

To hide the language memorization thing we should ask J to make the Goketsu formal wear include long baggy sleeves that can cover your hands. Hazo could then cross his arms, pretending to be deep in thought. He is of course spazzing out under the robes, but no one else needs to know that ^_^
 
Twinnstars said:
I have an idea.

To hide the language memorization thing we should ask J to make the Goketsu formal wear include long baggy sleeves that can cover your hands. Hazo could then cross his arms, pretending to be deep in thought. He is of course spazzing out under the robes, but no one else needs to know that ^_^
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Can we not just wear a cloak?

HAZOU: Sorry, I get cold easy. It's a bloodline thing just something I have to deal with. Tsunade said its not contagious.
 
I mean, there's a fairly simple hand-based signal that's easy to explain away: flute fingerings and drumming our fingers. For bonus effect, we can drum out Tears of Red on repeat to mask the fact that we're encoding the entire conversation and simply blame the drumming a on our small hobby of musicianship.
 
huhYeahGoodPoint said:
I mean, there's a fairly simple hand-based signal that's easy to explain away: flute fingerings and drumming our fingers. For bonus effect, we can drum out Tears of Red on repeat to mask the fact that we're encoding the entire conversation and simply blame the drumming a on our small hobby of musicianship.
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I was thinking about that. Wouldn't it look weird if we're silently running our fingers up and down a flute while we're talking to people though?

Though this would give us an excellent spying ability if we go undercover as a bard somewhere.
 
MMKII said:
I was thinking about that. Wouldn't it look weird if we're silently running our fingers up and down a flute while we're talking to people though?

Though this would give us an excellent spying ability if we go undercover as a bard somewhere.
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No, we don't do it in air; we're doing it on the table and mimicking which fingers go down; which incidentally is exactly the information we're encoding.

Alternatively we learn how to wiggle our toes independently and encode that :V
 
We should be using our toes anyways, because the more bandwidth they handle the less bandwidth we need our fingers to handle and the more subtle we can make those movements.

Either way, though, this sounds like the sort of thing that falls under [Iron Nerve Socials] like we've been wanting Hana to teach us (in all honesty, it's probably a set of stunts like this, which I think is cool since we haven't seen too many stunts to they're still new and interesting). I imagine if we wanted to reinvent them on our own, we'd need a coherent game plan all the way through and we'd still need to spend multiple times as much XP on it than if we had a teacher.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
We should be using our toes anyways, because the more bandwidth they handle the less bandwidth we need our fingers to handle and the more subtle we can make those movements.

Either way, though, this sounds like the sort of thing that falls under [Iron Nerve Socials] like we've been wanting Hana to teach us (in all honesty, it's probably a set of stunts like this, which I think is cool since we haven't seen too many stunts to they're still new and interesting). I imagine if we wanted to reinvent them on our own, we'd need a coherent game plan all the way through and we'd still need to spend multiple times as much XP on it than if we had a teacher.
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The socials to me just seem like a bunch of small body expressions(posture, facial expression, level of eyelid droop, etc) cobbled together into larger macros or something.

We might be able to do our own shoddy approximation with a decent pile of help from Mari (and perhaps some more data on the IN from Kabuto) and several months of work.
 
So I guess we can't use our toes? To supplement his hands, so he doesn't spazz out as badly.

Or recruit some other, less visible muscles, like his buttocks?

Then we could say Hazou is talking out of his ass.
 
MMKII said:
The socials to me just seem like a bunch of small body expressions(posture, facial expression, level of eyelid droop, etc) cobbled together into larger macros or something.

We might be able to do our own shoddy approximation with a decent pile of help from Mari (and perhaps some more data on the IN from Kabuto) and several months of work.
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So is everything else? Concepts you learn become part of overarching concepts, in which you chunks concept together.
 
Kiba said:
So is everything else? Concepts you learn become part of overarching concepts, in which you chunks concept together.
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Yes, everything is conceptually a pile of things. I don't see how this is a pertinent observation.

We can execute strings of muscle movement sequences with the Iron Nerve. I suspect that outside of taijutsu usage, Hazou does not use incredibly complex or expertly tailored strings of IN movements. He has a couple go-to expressions when he needs them, built off of life experience, but nothing super complex like the shit we see Ren doing in the Hotsprings interlude.
 
@faflec

Iron nerve stuff:
1) Can we be selective when using the IN (i.e., does it reproduce the full body worth of body language/motion each time, or can we save and recall individual muscle movements?)
- - My answer: I think we've done individual expressions before that don't necessarily reproduce the entire body-scan worth of muscle movements during that time, so probably the latter.
2) Can we play multiple movements back at the same time ?
3)Does the Iron Nerve record our movements when we're using movements form the Iron Nerve?


If so, the following is maybe valid (I can only express this succinctly with psuedo code).

Say Hazou wants to practice his smile. He also wants to practice giving a nice peace sign. He practices and commits the movements to the IN. This looks like:

Smile.IN := IronNerve.SAVE( [Smile] )
PeaceSign.IN := IronNerve.SAVE ([Peace Sign])

If he wants to play these back, he has to do:

IronNerve.PLAY(Smile.IN)
or
IronNerve.PLAY(PeaceSign.IN)

Now, Hazou could try doing both at once, and then saving that. This would have him do:

SmileAndPeaceSign.IN := IronNerve.SAVE([Smile,Peace Sign] )

where the compounding difficulty on this, is of course the original complex (relatively) reproduction of smiling and peace sign-ing at the same time. Doing two things at once is harder than doing either separately, so it would be harder to get the ideal movement saved up here compared to the individual ones. Replace "Smile" and "Peace Sign" with two complicated things now: "Expression of wide eyed incredulity" and "convincing staggering step backwards".

But if we can save Iron Nerve replays back to the Iron Nerve, and Iron Nerve replays can be played back locally (one muscle at a time), then we could just do:

SmileAndPeaceSign.IN := IronNerve.SAVE( [ IronNerve.PLAY(Smile.IN) , IronNerve.PLAY(PeaceSign.IN) ] )

Which will just concatenate two separate movements into a single one. The catch here is that you can cheese things a bit by practicing a lot of movements for (roughly) separate muscle groups and then throw them all together at once, and you don't actually have to worry about naturally getting the combined movement right, just that the finished product doesn't look janky.

Maybe this is something we already do though. I dunno.

I would imagine someone has suggested this already, but c'est la vie.
 
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So, I don't think we'll have enough time once we get back to Leaf to pursue sealing at the same time as our other projects.

So, between the following, what do we think we'll have time for?:
  • Sealing Research
  • Teaching (academy students)
  • Storage Seal bank (whether personal seals as per Kagome's suggestion or centralized Goketsu-run bank)
  • Salt-Making stuff (Don't underestimate how much time this will take)
  • Other things
Also, @eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail

Re: Salt plans, I think one of the main sticking points is the price of it. We've asked in Mist, and I think we could easily enough find out back in Leaf (or via Jiraiya, or asking Keiko) that this is worth asking.

According to this, the price of salt per kilogram was around $15 per kilo in Rome. However, given how, uh, hard Rome went on infrastructure, and the difficulty in creating and maintaining such infrastructure in the Elemental Nations, I'm unsure of how analogous this would be. It seems likely that supply would be QUITE a bit lower, whereas demand would remain the same per capita, but I thought I'd bring this to your attention.
 
Cariyaga said:
So, I don't think we'll have enough time once we get back to Leaf to pursue sealing at the same time as our other projects.

So, between the following, what do we think we'll have time for?:
  • Sealing Research
  • Teaching (academy students)
  • Storage Seal bank (whether personal seals as per Kagome's suggestion or centralized Goketsu-run bank)
  • Salt-Making stuff (Don't underestimate how much time this will take)
  • Other things
Also, @eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail

Re: Salt plans, I think one of the main sticking points is the price of it. We've asked in Mist, and I think we could easily enough find out back in Leaf (or via Jiraiya, or asking Keiko) that this is worth asking.

According to this, the price of salt per kilogram was around $15 per kilo in Rome. However, given how, uh, hard Rome went on infrastructure, and the difficulty in creating and maintaining such infrastructure in the Elemental Nations, I'm unsure of how analogous this would be. It seems likely that supply would be QUITE a bit lower, whereas demand would remain the same per capita, but I thought I'd bring this to your attention.
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If I had to guess, poor road infrastructure and the difficulty increase to trade from chakra monsters roaming around eating merchants would mean that salt has Rome-like (or a bit higher than Rome-like because the EN don't use slave labor that I'm aware of) prices near salt sources (mines, ocean shores, plus navigable rivers) and the price increases with distance from those sources by some linear function with a slope I can't guess at.

In theory anyone who got a bunch of storage scrolls should be able to make a lot of money by running between ports and inland settlements, which presents the question of 'why aren't they already?'. Even though storage scrolls are expensive they're reuseable, so it'd be a worthwhile investment to somebody.
 
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Cariyaga said:
Nah, we have better ways to generate free mechanical energy.
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Yeah, but there's something to be said for respecting tradition. Perhaps just do it for a day and then spend a season presenting it in an infinite loop of recursive flashbacks?

Huh, actually, that sounds like an interesting seal...



TaliesinSkye said:
If I had to guess, poor road infrastructure and the difficulty increase to trade from chakra monsters roaming around eating merchants would mean that salt has Rome-like (or a bit higher than Rome-like because the EN don't use slave labor that I'm aware of) prices near salt sources (mines, ocean shores, plus navigable rivers) and the price increases with distance from those sources by some linear function with a slope I can't guess at.

In theory anyone who got a bunch of storage scrolls should be able to make a lot of money by running between ports and inland settlements, which presents the question of 'why aren't they already?'. Even though storage scrolls are expensive they're reuseable, so it'd be a worthwhile investment to somebody.
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We know that there are chakra users hurting for money and the price of salt is is something anybody who isn't absurdly wealthy is going to be acutely aware of. Monopolizing the salt trade almost singlehandedly saved an entire Chinese dynasty. I just can't imagine that obvious solutions have been systematically neglected without some compelling reason.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
If I had to guess, poor road infrastructure and the difficulty increase to trade from chakra monsters roaming around eating merchants would mean that salt has Rome-like (or a bit higher than Rome-like because the EN don't use slave labor that I'm aware of) prices near salt sources (mines, ocean shores, plus navigable rivers) and the price increases with distance from those sources by some linear function with a slope I can't guess at.

In theory anyone who got a bunch of storage scrolls should be able to make a lot of money by running between ports and inland settlements, which presents the question of 'why aren't they already?'. Even though storage scrolls are expensive they're reuseable, so it'd be a worthwhile investment to somebody.
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Innovation in general is stifled because if someone tries to get rich out of innovation then some Old Money family will send the yakuza / ninja to kill them and then take over their business. Whoever currently has a monopoly on salt doesn't appreciate competitors.
 
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