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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Noumero said:
I disagree with that. Armor jutsu is a Gouketsu secret, not Yamanaka or ISC secret. Ino'll tell either Shikamaru or Inoichi, they'll figure everything out (probably using the very clues we'll be planting for enemy agents), Jiraiya will be mad.

I agree that romcom bullshit is distasteful, but it's nowhere near as potentially disastrous.
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I think you misread the intent there. I specifically said "disinformation campaign", not "read in on the full details of the opsec breach".

Also, to be clear, I would be willing to vote for your plan if you got Kei's permission -- or at least let her know we intended -- to talk to Ami.
 
Removed talking about Kei with Ami. Meeting is strictly about learning more about her



Oneiros said:
Some modifications to @huhYeahGoodPoint plan
[X] Action Plan: Hazou's Busy Day Plus One
  • General
    • Check with Jiraiya
    • No binding commitments on first meeting
  • Merchants
    • Meet with prior contacts
      • specifically: the salt/spice merchant, glass blower and brewer from before.
      • Bring gifts: 'excess' storage seals, perhaps
    • Make other contacts
      • Start compiling a notebook of potential ones.
  • Ami
    • Arrange for a meeting. Suggest meeting at the library
    • MAKE SURE NOT TO MENTION ANYTHING THAT COULD VIOLATE OPSEC
      • If Hazō thinks any manipulation is going on he will politely leave ASAP
    • Ostensible subject is how Hazō is interested in her politics and philosophy as a rising ninja
      • Feel her out about uplift
      • mention that the "special envoy to Leaf" position has been vacated recently
      • Ask for any book recommendations she has
  • Ikeda
    • Arrange another meeting at her leisure, should she be willing
    • Ask about her experience in Sand
      • Use missing-nin experience as excuse - curiosity about what a normal ninja life is like
      • See what she knows about the civilian experience
    • Trade story for story if necessary, but don't give more than she does
      • DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HOT SPRINGS AND MOUNTAIN AND ENTRY TO LEAF
    • Give a brief explanation of uplift philosophy
      • Casually mention Till-n-fills as a new mission category Leaf's been trying out.
        • Easy money for the economy, good practice for the greener Genin, and it makes the civilians more productive.
      • Maybe float it by your higher-ups for brownie points, perhaps Sand could adopt something similar, who knows?
  • ISC
    • Watch Ino and Shikamaru's match
      • Celebrate as appropriate afterwards should they win.
        • Don't stay out too late though. Tomorrow is showtime.
  • Contingencies
    • Armor
      • Insist on the Kotsuzui explanation at all times.
        • Even if Kotsuzui himself asks.
      • As far as Hazou is concerned "Breaking OPSEC with cute Sand Genin." is now officially on the list of "Hazou's fuck ups."
        • Do not talk about it. It didn't happen.
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Cariyaga said:
I could use suggestions for better phrasing on getting Keiko's permission.
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Can't see this happening but considering she went behind our back to talk to Hana to fix our collective family we are within rights to call her out on this if she tries to get mad.

@Noumero Word space left to add this as contingency?

@faflec Any idea if we know about the Hana/Keiko scene IC?

If no, have Hazou say something like this: "Can you swear to me that you never tried to improve my/our happiness/family circumstances without my knowledge nor that you will ever do so in the future? Because I cannot, I like you guys too much to watch you be unhappy. Yes, even if that means making you mad at me in the short-term. You are all worth it to me."

I think that is in character for Hazou, right?
 
Aodyssey said:
tell_me_more.png

You know, if Hazou become a grappling expert I bet it'd be synergistic with applying sealsin some shape or form
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That gives me an idea. What about explosive seals that are adhesive and have a decently long timer (1-2 turns)? Hazou could set the timer, punch someone, and in the process attach the explosive to them. Then, they'll be flailing around with trying to get the tag off, giving Hazou an aspect bonus to taijutsu. If they're small scale explosives (the size of Kagome's smallest implosion seals?) then they probably won't hit anyone outside of melee range, which people automatically leave after they attack.
 
Cariyaga said:
think you misread the intent there. I specifically said "disinformation campaign", not "read in on the full details of the opsec breach".
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While this is still an ongoing operation (we are still surrounded by foreign ninja right? ) full information security on all aspects of this (including the existence of the operation) should be exercised.

We can apologize and tell her it was for some vague social-fu bullshit later. She's a ninja, she'll understand. If she's even jelly or mad about it.
 
Tua said:
Can't see this happening but considering she went behind our back to talk to Hana to fix our collective family we are within rights to call her out on this if she tries to get mad.

@Noumero Word space left to add this as contingency?

@faflec Any idea if we know about the Hana/Keiko scene IC?

If no, have Hazou say something like this: "Can you swear to me that you never tried to improve my/our happiness/family circumstances without my knowledge nor that you will ever do so in the future? Because I cannot, I like you guys too much to watch you be unhappy. Yes, even if that means making you mad at me in the short-term. You are all worth it to me."

I think that is in character for Hazou, right?
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I don't think that doing something bad and then, when someone calls you out on it, pointing out that they did the same thing in the past, justifies our action.
 
I don't think explaining matters to Ino is a good move. If she was jealous then explaining signals to her that we think her jealousy was poorly concealed, and that's insulting to a social spec. If she wasn't jealous, then Hazou looks oblivious for thinking she was. Furthermore, even though there's interest on both sides, since they're not actually dating it looks a bit... iffy for Hazou to be apologetic about showing interest in people that aren't her.
 
faflec said:
I don't think that doing something bad and then, when someone calls you out on it, pointing out that they did the same thing in the past, justifies our action.
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We aren't doing anything objectively bad nor is pointing out the hypocrisy of said action (if Keiko thinks what we did is bad) useless. We are also providing arguments for why we did and she logically has no grounds to stand on if she accuses us of going behind her back because she also did it.
 
MadScientist said:
I don't think explaining matters to Ino is a good move. If she was jealous then explaining signals to her that we think her jealousy was poorly concealed, and that's insulting to a social spec. If she wasn't jealous, then Hazou looks oblivious for thinking she was. Furthermore, even though there's interest on both sides, since they're not actually dating it looks a bit... iffy for Hazou to be apologetic about showing interest in people that aren't her.
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It's neither. She was obviously looking out for Hazou by trying to keep him from getting drunk around sand ninja.
 
Sentient Tree said:
As a side note, would just not being allowed anywhere near Ikeda be the logical thing to do? I can imagine everyone forbidding Hazou from going near her after a leak like that
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Yep, there are two ways to look at that.

1. On the one hand, yes, Hazou was just seduced by a fellow competitor leading to an OPSEC breach and should be ordered to stay far away from her.

2. On the other hand, if a Hazou who seemed smitten with Ikeda stopped interacting with her the moment he leaked her his secret, that'll look suspicious too, especially since he started showing interest only when the Gouketsu needed a cover-up.

We could play a you-know-I-know-you-know n-level deception game here, but consider this: Hazou leaks a secret to Ikeda, he then act suitably sad, but he is still allowed to interact with her later. Why? Perhaps because said secret wasn't actually that serious — which is consistent with our "Kurosawa bloodline secret" explanation. It's not scaleable, it's something the Kurosawa have always had, the status quo remains.

So I think having another meeting is a slightly better idea, especially if Hazou will manage to act his part as well.
Cariyaga said:
I think you misread the intent there. I specifically said "disinformation campaign", not "read in on the full details of the opsec breach".
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I'm afraid that'll be enough. Hazou tanking the explosion apparently raised quite a few eyebrows. Even if Ino didn't start to wonder, do you think Shikamaru missed it? And if that very day Hazou will take part in some kind of "disinformation campaign" that requires him to be drunk with Ikeda, do you think Shikamaru wouldn't connect the dots? It'll be obvious that whatever trick Hazou used, it was strategically important.

... I could add thanking her for looking out for Hazou/apologizing for not listening, if you want?
 
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Cariyaga said:
It's neither. She was obviously looking out for Hazou by trying to keep him from getting drunk around sand ninja.
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We're still trying to pull off an operation (its not finished until we step foot in Leaf, and even then the coverup aspect needs to stay) to protect clan secrets.

We should inform Ino of NOTHING about this, unless we want more problems.

At worst in the future we can just do a:

HAZOU: Hey, so sorry about making an ass of myself despite your attempts to make that not happen.

INO: Hmph.

HAZOU: Needless to say, there was a reason for that and it would help me out a bit if you could give me some shit for it.

INO: Gladly.
 
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MMKII said:
We're still trying to pull off an operation (its not finished until we step foot in Leaf, and even then the coverup aspect needs to stay) to protect clan secrets.

We should inform Ino of NOTHING about this, unless we want more problems.

At worst in the future we can just do a:

HAZOU: Hey, so sorry about making an ass of myself despite your attempts to make that not happen.

INO: Hmph.

HAZOU: Needless to say, there was a reason for that and it would help me out a bit if you could give me some shit for it.

INO: Gladly.
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Showing her trust is important, though. I don't expect it to cause problems if we say just that right now.
 
Um...I'm pretty sure social-spec Ino saw through our faking being drunk, and decided to help us by pretending to (and failing to) stop us.
 
Well, whatever, no one's interested in letting Kei know we're talking to her sister anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.

[Tone: Flippant, not distressed.]
 
Cariyaga said:
Well, whatever, no one's interested in letting Kei know we're talking to her sister anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.

[Tone: Flippant, not distressed.]
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I would like to, but I'm pretty sure she would tell us not to. And possibly try to kill us in order to prevent it.

Edit:
I'm mostly worried she'll say no though. Her killing us is always a possibility, increasing that likelihood doesn't matter as much to me as it should.
Probably too much randomly trying to kill us just because we saw a small toy or whatever.
 
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Sentient Tree said:
I would like to, but I'm pretty sure she would tell us not to. And possibly try to kill us in order to prevent it.

Edit:
I'm mostly worried she'll say no though. Her killing us is always a possibility, increasing that likelihood doesn't matter as much to me as it should.
Probably too much randomly trying to kill us just because we saw a small toy or whatever.
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If she says no, we can argue against that.

I have zero interest in pissing off Kei "for her own good".
 
Cariyaga said:
Well, whatever, no one's interested in letting Kei know we're talking to her sister anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.

[Tone: Flippant, not distressed.]
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I'm not really convinced that anyone in the clan has much grounds to be warding us away from their private life, especially when they don't have the ability to prevent it from interacting violently with anyone else in the family. As Hana showed...

Like, "Don't talk to my sister (without my permission)." seems really reasonable until you realize that said sister could probably decide to have you strung up on the village gates by your intestines because you were a shitty sibling, or because your habit of being the Greatest Spanner in The Works derailed a few crucial plots of theirs(the existence of which you had zero knowledge of) and theres probably not much you could do about it.
 
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Cariyaga said:
Well, whatever, no one's interested in letting Kei know we're talking to her sister anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.
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I just don't think it's warranted or optimal, from any perspective. We're not, as of yet, even approaching Ami for Keiko-related reasons, we're trying to figure out her political views. They're separate individuals, a fact which Ami tried to make very clear to Keiko.

Keiko will either say no, or say she doesn't care because Ami hates her et cetera, cue a depression spiral, and the large-scale reasons for approaching Ami now wouldn't change. She doesn't need this in the middle of the tournament.
It's intended to avoid the romcom bullshit that will inevitably result of ignoring her.
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I'm worried it's the very thing from which the hivemind's OPSEC breaches come from: inability to divide allies into tiers of trust and coldly judge when ignoring these tiers is justified and not justified.
 
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