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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Roomba said:
I disagree strongly regarding your first point. Keiko herself does at no point feel threatened by the man, or worried that he could touch her. And for good reason, him being a civilian and her being a Chuunin level ninja, he literally can't unless she lets him. This, for the record, is the very foundation of the power ninja hold over civilians.

As for the second point, we don't know either way, but I'm willing to bet that if Keiko murdered the man where he stood, she would've gotten away with nothing worse than a polite request not to do that again from the local authorities. Maybe Jiraiya would've received a similarly polite letter later. You really think this world's judicial systems are very zealous in prosecuting murders of random civilians by ninja royalty?
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You do remember the conversation Jiraiya had with us about how if we accidentally killed any civilians he'd be obliged to execute us, right?
 
Cariyaga said:
You do remember the conversation Jiraiya had with us about how if we accidentally killed any civilians he'd be obliged to execute us, right?
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I don't, actually. Not really relevant here though, as it wouldn't be an accident, but an avenging of a noble clan's impunged honour. Considering Jiraiya was more than fine with us murdering tens of civilians on board the Sunset Racer, he should be ok with this as well.

More seriously, Keiko would absolutely face consequences from Jiraiya himself. But I don't for a second believe it would be execution, or any kind of serious public-facing punishment.
 
Roomba said:
I don't, actually. Not really relevant here though, as it wouldn't be an accident, but an avenging of a noble clan's impunged honour. Considering Jiraiya was more than fine with us murdering tens of civilians on board the Sunset Racer, he should be ok with this as well.

More seriously, Keiko would absolutely face consequences from Jiraiya himself. But I don't for a second believe it would be execution, or any kind of serious public-facing punishment.
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You forget that Keiko and the others do not actually have the medieval mindset. They are closer to modernity.
 
Roomba said:
I feel like you're all letting context from the real world colour your perception of what transpired. To be fair, said context almost definitely influenced @Velorien's writing here, so it's very natural to adopt it. But, what if we look at the situation purely from an IC perspective?
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Are you not letting IRL morality color yours?

I'm fairly certain its quite allright to beat half of the piss out of random peasants in Keiko's position for trying to make some romantic moves on her, let alone spook them a little bit.
 
...On another note, while checking for sources (I wish I had Faflec's magic voodoo), I noticed that Keiko told off a Yamamoto when she was first settling in. Oops. Wonder if that was one of Haru's brothers?
e:
One of the things that Kei liked best about the library was that it was quiet. Anyone making noise risked the wrath of Auntie, and bold was the person who dared reach into that fire. Unfortunately, the fierce old woman wasn't on duty today. Her replacement was an idiot, too stammering-stupid at being in the presence of the Hokage's daughter to provide useful information like where to find the data on trade between Leaf and Hot Springs from fourteen years ago. Kei had waited with outward stoicism as the woman scrambled through the index books that were kept at the information desk while simultaneously keeping up a steady stream of social babble that Keiko couldn't force herself to listen to no matter how hard she tried.

Speaking of babbling, there was a crowd of teenage males lurking about and whispering to each other. Periodically they would glance over at her where she stood by the desk. Each time they did, the whispering would intensify for a moment, only to be followed by a nervous laugh that felt like claws on the blackboard of her soul.

Eventually Kei couldn't stand it anymore. "Do not worry," she said to the fluttering incompetent at the desk, keeping her tone steady with what she felt was Sage-like patience. "I believe I know where to start." She turned and headed off into the stacks. In truth, she had only a vague idea of where to find what she needed but she simply could not put up with the woman's idiocy for another second.

The pack of males stood up as she moved and trailed along behind her, two of their number leading. She ignored them and started going systematically along one likely shelf of old, leather-bound volumes, making it very clear that she was involved in what she was doing and would prefer not to be disturbed. The pair in the lead didn't take the hint.

"Hi," said the taller of the two, leaning against the shelf with what he probably thought was cool insouciance. "I'm Yamamoto Dai."

She plucked a volume off the shelf more or less at random and pointedly flipped it open. "And I am busy."

His friend laughed and Yamamoto blinked. "Hey, c'mon, I'm just trying to be nice. I haven't seen you in here before."

She glanced at him for a moment, then turned back to her book. "True."

Yamamoto was starting to get angry. He straightened up; he must have hit his growth spurt recently because he was a full head taller than she was despite being around her own age. "You don't have to be rude, okay? I just wanted to say hi, that's all."

Keiko turned her body to face him and looked straight into his eyes.

"You are bothering me."

Yamamoto and his hangers-on recoiled in shock before turning and scrambling away. Kei watched them go for a moment, then went back to her book.
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@Veedrac remember clear communication no jutsu?

If we are unsure of how to go about actually convincing jiraya of things...

Maybe just ask him?

The worst thing he could do is lie to us. And make fun of us. And tie us upside down over the monument while extolling our foolishness and ineptitude. (That sounds like a great nightmare actually)

I think we should work on our relationship with jiraiya though. He's still a cypher to us. Which. I mean. Ninja. Still also our clan head.
 
zxzx24 said:
If we are unsure of how to go about actually convincing jiraya of things...

Maybe just ask him?
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This is pretty much my plan, yes. Ditto for the pangolins, actually.

E: By which I mean it's a constituent of the real plan that I'd actually propose, rather than the hypothetical I've been discussing a lot but wouldn't actually advocate.
 
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Roomba said:
I disagree strongly regarding your first point. Keiko herself does at no point feel threatened by the man, or worried that he could touch her. And for good reason, him being a civilian and her being a Chuunin level ninja, he literally can't unless she lets him. This, for the record, is the very foundation of the power ninja hold over civilians.

As for the second point, we don't know either way, but I'm willing to bet that if Keiko murdered the man where he stood, she would've gotten away with nothing worse than a polite request not to do that again from the local authorities. Maybe Jiraiya would've received a similarly polite letter later. You really think this world's judicial systems are very zealous in prosecuting murders of random civilians by ninja royalty?
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Important point to bear in mind: whatever the actual power differential at play, the civilians were not aware of it prior to the interaction (otherwise one assumes even they would not have been stupid enough to try anything). As such, the treatment they deserve should be evaluated based on the choice they thought they were making, which was to engage in that same interaction from a position of strength rather than weakness. In such circumstances I think a verbal evisceration is entirely justifiable.
 
10k words?!?!

And no filler?!?!

Nani the fuck?!?!?!?!

I desperately want to write a chapter reaction after waiting over an IRL year for Hazou to finally have lunch with Ino, but I simply don't have time to do this chapter justice.

I will skip to the important bit for voting though (bear in mind that I am not reading the thread before posting, again due to time constraints):

Hazou needs, needs to explain to Ino while kowtowing (or the MfD equivalent) that he is an absolute idiot when it comes to social... anything. He should use an analogy such as Hazou himself is like a lonely chakra porcupine: adapted to surviving harsh conditions yet desperate for love as he harms everyone he tries to hug. Then he should say that Akane, being the divine being of patience and benevolence she is, willing accepted the pain that being Hazou's romantic partner entailed until Hazou forgot he had sharp quills in the first place. Hazou should then come to the conclusion in his soliloquy that Akane leaving him was inevitable given his nature even though he thought everything was fine as he was unintentionally hurting her. After that Hazou should beg (yes, literally beg) Ino to help him remove his barbs, no matter how painful the procedure(s) may be to him, so that he will never again harm another person in such a personal (and therefore, all the more excruciating) way again. Hazou knows he doesn't have a choice when it comes to romance: he knows that his hand in marriage is far too valuable to Jiraiya as a political asset. Please help him so he does not repeat the same tragedy he had with Akane with someone new--someone innocent--all over again.

Honestly, this is probably a prerequisite to any romantic endeavors we want Hazou to embark upon. Our boy is black hole-level of dense at the moment. Ino, by contrast, is definitely the most socially adept person of people in our age group we've met and she has temerity to call Hazou out on his shit whenever he screws up.

Mari is out of commission at the moment.

Jiraiya's too busy with important shit.

Noburi and Hana are too biased in Hazou's favor to give him the objectivity he needs.

Keiko is Keiko and Kagome is Kagome.

Akane... no. All of the No.

Granny therapist told him to fuck a goat.

...

We need this guys, badly.
 
Kiba said:
Incorrect, chakra boosting is purely internal, which means you can't detect it.
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  • What exactly does "internal" mean?
  • Is your skin a chakra visibility barrier?
    • If so how is the Byakugan capable of seeing chakra systems?
  • What is the casino seal actually detecting?
    • Something akin to chakra light?
    • Chakra sound?
    • Warping of the world related to the use of chakra?
    • <Insert 4-5 other possibilities that would take more patience than I have to explain>
    • Something else entirely?
  • What is chakra moulding?
    • movement of chakra?
    • intention being applied to chakra?
    • Translation of chakra from one state to another?
    • Something else?
  • Why does something being internal make it undetectable?
    • Is it a function of the seal?
      • chakra boosting isn't particularly useful for cheating at gambling so the seal could purposefully ignore it.
    • Is there something about being "internal" that affects the actual detection process?
    • Is there a fundamental difference between "internal" and "external" use of chakra?
      • What is it?
Seriously, dude. Take a second to step back from the obvious non-answer and actually think about things for a second.

"It's internal" is an obvious curiosity stopper, rather than an actual answer. People commonly respond with those instead of actual answers, so I don't begrudge the QMs including it, but that doesn't mean that it's meaningful to us.

Stop being so confident that you know an "answer", or understand a "threat", or have a "worry". Pattern matching a few words is no substitute for actually thinking.

@Kiba, you in particular have a bad habit of having knee-jerk negative reactions to everything even mildly experimental and speculative.

I find this incredibly annoying. Every attempt to actually experiment or explore gets a pointless, content-free, negative response from you.

Frankly, you make it less fun to participate in the quest, and make it harder for me to get enthusiastic about the parts I care about. Since I now know I'm going to have to waste my time pushing back against your non-constructive, vapid criticism.

You've done this over and over, to the point that I've lost my patience with you. I've said this same thing before without calling you out explicitly, or being as mean, and nothing has come of it.

At this point I'm not asking you to change (I have lost hope of that happening). I am reduced to just being publicly frustrated at how you seem to pull our discourse down a few levels.

In much the same way that certain answers to questions are curiosity stoppers, (they don't actually help develop a better model of the world and just exist to shut people up) your criticism tends to be a exploration stopper. You object to things, but provide "reasons" that are fundamentally content-free and don't present an actual problem that others can fix. So anyone trying to respond to you is stuck having to, with difficulty, make the subtle point that there is nothing in your objection that we can actually directly respond to.

You might not be doing this on purpose, but it is happening. You are burning the conversational commons, and pretending it's the other guy. It's everything I hate about political rhetoric writ small and tedious.
 
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Dictator4Hire said:
10k words?!?!

And no filler?!?!

Nani the fuck?!?!?!?!

I desperately want to write a chapter reaction after waiting over an IRL year for Hazou to finally have lunch with Ino, but I simply don't have time to do this chapter justice.

I will skip to the important bit for voting though (bear in mind that I am not reading the thread before posting, again due to time constraints):

Hazou needs, needs to explain to Ino while kowtowing (or the MfD equivalent) that he is an absolute idiot when it comes to social... anything. He should use an analogy such as Hazou himself is like a lonely chakra porcupine: adapted to surviving harsh conditions yet desperate for love as he harms everyone he tries to hug. Then he should say that Akane, being the divine being of patience and benevolence she is, willing accepted the pain that being Hazou's romantic partner entailed until Hazou forgot he had sharp quills in the first place. Hazou should then come to the conclusion in his soliloquy that Akane leaving him was inevitable given his nature even though he thought everything was fine as he was unintentionally hurting her. After that Hazou should beg (yes, literally beg) Ino to help him remove his barbs, no matter how painful the procedure(s) may be to him, so that he will never again harm another person in such a personal (and therefore, all the more excruciating) way again. Hazou knows he doesn't have a choice when it comes to romance: he knows that his hand in marriage is far too valuable to Jiraiya as a political asset. Please help him so he does not repeat the same tragedy he had with Akane with someone new--someone innocent--all over again.

Honestly, this is probably a prerequisite to any romantic endeavors we want Hazou to embark upon. Our boy is black hole-level of dense at the moment. Ino, by contrast, is definitely the most socially adept person of people in our age group we've met and she has temerity to call Hazou out on his shit whenever he screws up.

Mari is out of commission at the moment.

Jiraiya's too busy with important shit.

Noburi and Hana are too biased in Hazou's favor to give him the objectivity he needs.

Keiko is Keiko and Kagome is Kagome.

Akane... no. All of the No.

Granny therapist told him to fuck a goat.

...

We need this guys, badly.
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If you'd like to get people to go along with your devious plans for Hazou's relationship, I'd recommend starting smaller. For instance, I'd be perfectly willing to vote for a plan where Hazou was like, "Hey Ino, so, you know, I wasn't really brought up in a clan at all: could you help me out with all that stuff that you take for granted?", but I have negative interest in pursuing romance for him. (If it happens naturally fine, but otherwise eeeeeeeh.)
 
Was hazou actually a blackhole of misery for Akane or...? I don't remember I tend to gloss over updates that make we want to cry.
 
Cariyaga said:
If you'd like to get people to go along with your devious plans for Hazou's relationship, I'd recommend starting smaller. For instance, I'd be perfectly willing to vote for a plan where Hazou was like, "Hey Ino, so, you know, I wasn't really brought up in a clan at all: could you help me out with all that stuff that you take for granted?", but I have negative interest in pursuing romance for him. (If it happens naturally fine, but otherwise eeeeeeeh.)
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I'm the inverse of your position, I think. I'm okay with pursuing Hazou/Ino interactions for useful purposes without worrying about unduly influencing Hazou's love life, but I don't want to ask for another favour right after she just helped us clean up all this mess despite being angry with us. We should try to pay her back and let some time pass before bringing it up again (not so much time that the topic stops being at all relevant though).
 
I want to do two three different posts. One about the merits of actually, no shit, being a Hufflepuff, upright paragon of Paladins.

One about how we need to talk to Hana and then actually go and apologize to Akane.

And this one.

ALERT ALERT ALERT @eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail ARE THE DATES FOR THE PAST FEW UPDATES CORRECT?
eaglejarl said:
September 25, 6:30pm
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eaglejarl said:
November 27, 7am
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THESE SEEM TO INDICATE THAT MORE THAN TWO MONTHS HAVE PASSED!
 
@Jello_Raptor

I will think "not possible" or "hard" for anything that's not merely a modification over what we had or things that are too novels. It's not that I lack for ideas, though.
 
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