Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

[Noumero]

Politics:

• Nara ensures Hyuga doesn't join in attack
• Convince teammates to donate chakra

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Suggestion: add a bullet-point clarifying general idea behind our provocative speech. @eaglejarl, is that fine with you?

Supposition: Shikamaru will want to communicate something to us during break day (for example, new intel on STR's abilities, or our impeding failure due to his inability to convince STR to follow a self-defeating strategy, or our arrived failure due to our teammates' inability to conceal our plan's existence from STL). Suggestion: add a line to watch out for that.

Physical:

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Supposition: there won't be enough time to set up all traps. Suggestions: prioritize which defences we want to have the most, explicitly delegate who sets up what to preserve time.

Are we not testing pitfalls and goo-clusterbombs in the Seventh Path?

Safe path includes avoidable but hidden LBF seals with nonlethal AOE seals.

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No description of pitfalls?

Prepare an emergency exit through traps.
Consists of a path of fake traps blending in with the trap field.

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Not a tunnel? We are not baiting enemy into the building?

 

[Emstar]

Suggestion: add a bullet-point clarifying general idea behind our provocative speech. @eaglejarl, is that fine with you?

Supposition: Shikamaru will want to communicate something to us during break day (for example, new intel on STR's abilities, or our impeding failure due to his inability to convince STR to follow a self-defeating strategy, or our arrived failure due to our teammates' inability to conceal our plan's existence from STL). Suggestion: add a line to watch out for that.

Supposition: there won't be enough time to set up all traps. Suggestions: prioritize which defences we want to have the most, explicitly delegate who sets up what to preserve time.

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I can add something to deal with trap prioritization. Lemme think of how to work the Shika thing in.

Are we not testing pitfalls and goo-clusterbombs in the Seventh Path?

No description of pitfalls?

Not a tunnel? We are not baiting enemy into the building?

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Im wary of doing pitfalls since the wordcounts getting tight here and it uses up even more LBFS (when we already have a handful of Air Domes). Also the safe path is no longer a straight line-drive.

I'll do it if enough people think its worthwhile.

Im going to clarify that if necessary Hazou et all retreat via tunnel or whatever means necessary.

Prearranged tunnel might not work though, we dont have that much chakra leftover for combat and I think prioritizing Pangolins would work more to our advantage.

Ill see what I can do though.

 

[Adept_Woodwright]

Im wary of doing pitfalls since the wordcounts getting tight here and it uses up even more LBFS (when we already have a handful of Air Domes). Also the safe path is no longer a straight line-drive.

I'll do it if enough people think its worthwhile.

Im going to clarify that if necessary Hazou et all retreat via tunnel or whatever means necessary.

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The new setup has several series of straight paths between defended openings.

Tactic:
Layer the outermost layer with goo pitfalls. When everyone is clear of the traps and all of ground STR is within the layer, have Paneru pull the cord to activate the trapped area.

Probably needs like 3-4 of the pratfall sets, each of which take 25 minutes to scribe.

Edit: only the outermost, because I wouldn't expect it to work twice in a row, it applies maluses early in the fight, and it effectively coerces the STR to push on in the fight (safe retreat path is sticky for 30 min. Also conveniently incapacitates ISC without us doing much)

I think the pratfalls are a better idea than the air domes, under the notion of offense better than defense in almost all cases in this setting.

 

[Erolki]

The new setup has several series of straight paths between defended openings.

Tactic:
Layer the outermost layer with goo pitfalls. When everyone is clear of the traps and all of ground STR is within the layer, have Paneru pull the cord to activate the trapped area.

Probably needs like 3-4 of the pratfall sets, each of which take 25 minutes to scribe.

Edit: only the outermost, because I wouldn't expect it to work twice in a row, it applies maluses early in the fight, and it effectively coerces the STR to push on in the fight (safe retreat path is sticky for 30 min. Also conveniently incapacitates ISC without us doing much)

I think the pratfalls are a better idea than the air domes, under the notion of offense better than defense in almost all cases in this setting.

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I don't see how using a few pratfall traps stops us using air domes to support the retreat - especially since something like the air domes linked to LBF seals is the only way to really let the melee people retreat without being immediately followed.

 

[Emstar]

@eaglejarl

Do you care overly much if I include a simple picture or two to clarify general design ideas?

This will likely give you a better idea of what we want without turning 100-200 words of the plan into overly descriptive word-spaghetti.

 

[Adept_Woodwright]

I don't see how using a few pratfall traps stops us using air domes to support the retreat - especially since something like the air domes linked to LBF seals is the only way to really let the melee people retreat without being immediately followed.

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Clarification: pratfalls are better idea only in the context of resource (seal element or word count) constraints. Both are better than only one, but if only one, then I'd go for pratfalls.

 

[Emstar]

Clarification: pratfalls are better idea only in the context of resource (seal element or word count) constraints. Both are better than only one, but if only one, then I'd go for pratfalls.

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Instead of doing this in a specified location (outermost, whatever) I'm going to specify we do this at a "key choke point." (perhaps Hazou thinks its more economical to set this up two layers in (see picture in my above post) or something ).

Things we have to balance:

1) Chakra
2) Time
3) Other resources (seals).

In the interest of trying to minimize consumption of all the above resources I don't think just flooding the outermost regions with these is viable.

 

[Adept_Woodwright]

@MMKII I was picturing three impassable sides , and the side with the door having a snaking path 3-4 zones out, with 3 zones in each turn ( so it would be ~9-12 zones to get from entrance to the fort.)

 

[Emstar]

@MMKII I was picturing three impassable sides , and the side with the door having a snaking path 3-4 zones out, with 3 zones in each turn ( so it would be ~9-12 zones to get from entrance to the fort.)

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But doing things in a circular design maximizes the amount of stuff they would need to trudge through as well as minimizing our own design cost?

Note: Each layer in the above past the first is probably multiple zones perimeter wise. Each layer is just one zone deep to the next layer.

Say, the first layer is just a zone, maybe. Then the second layer is ~6 zones long. The third is ~12, and so on.

Added content from @Noumero and @Adept_Woodwright 's collective criticism.

If someone could skim this and see ways to edit it down, that'd be great.

Word Count: 395
[X] (defenses) Layers of Rocket Tag
General:

• Tactical decisions (Target priority,squad makeup, etc.) ultimately left to IC judgement.
  • This plan is a framework to work around.
• Keiko runs everything through Frozen Skein.
• Hazou makes seals as needed.

Politics:

• Nara ensures Hyuga doesn't join in attack
  • Updates us during rest day on new info if necessary/possible.
• Convince teammates to donate chakra

Physical:

• Internal Defenses:
  • FSB'd MEW base (preventing tunnelers) and panels reinforcing key passageways, walls, and ceilings
• External defenses:
  • 4 zones cleared in each direction with explosives
    • First zone -- primary ranged attack station -- create lightning cover with MEW covering, force walls.
    • Second - fourth zones -- field of traps with a safe path winding around.
    • Separate zones with border of walls/abattisses from downed foliage.
  • Conventional traps as prepared by Paneru.
  • Nonlethal AOE seals and fake seals throughout field.
  • Safe path includes avoidable but hidden LBF seals with nonlethal AOE seals.
    • Goes through a single large gap in each layer's border.
    • Has an outward facing LBF-ed Air Dome at each layer's entrance (cover for retreat).
    • Entrances to layers alternate (maximize time spent in each).
  • Set up dirt ramps facing outwards in layer 2 for ranged vantage points
    
  • Prepare a few LBF-ed Air Domes in ranged attack locations.
    • Purpose: Emergency cover.
  • Pangolins dig underground ring around facility to catch tunnelers. Trap it.
    • Turn the bottom into a puddle.
  • Prepare an emergency exit through traps.
    • Perhaps a path of fake traps(blend in with real traps).
  • Consider: Goo Bomb Pitfall trapped area at key choke point.
    • Tile an area with the above trap design for area coverage.
    • Put a thin layer of dirt for camouflage.
    • Test one first, time permitting.

Spoiler: General layout idea

• Strategy
  • Above ground squad (Pandamonium, Pandojuru, ninja)
    • Pepper enemies with ranged attacks and brief bouts of CQC (Pangolins help with buffs and ranged)
    • Retreat layer by layer back to the facility.
      • Ranged is at layer 2, then retreats to layer 1 when appropriate
      • They cover the CQC retreat and then do their own.
  • Underground squad (Panashe, Pankurashun, Noburi(?), ninja)
    • Counter tunneling attack, capture and drain.
    • Ambush above ground attackers from below afterwards (back lines).
      • Priority targets: Wakahisa, Hazama, etc.
  • Do not get pinned down.
• Contingencies:
  • Prioritize closer layers of traps
  • If pinned down (at facility or otherwise): Kagome out. Hit and run.
    • If overrun at facility: try to escape underground. Failing that: Kagome.

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[Kiba]

What is the use of force walls for?

 

[Emstar]

What is the use of force walls for?

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More protection on the MEW covering? Also, on the Goo Bomb traps.

If we want to remove that and change to "Earth Domes" or something I'm game.

General Note:
I do not consider "Create MEW everything." to be valid to all our construction needs since it either costs significant chakra or significant time. We need to minimize expenditure of either in whatever way we can.

 

[Cariyaga]

@MMKII How about trapped substitution locations and real ones, to get over our traps when we jump the walls?

 

[Emstar]

@MMKII How about trapped substitution locations and real ones, to get over our traps when we jump the walls?

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I suppose? I've been given reason to believe by Adept that chakra costs may be an issue.

I already have Air Dome's popping up once we go through the entrance to each layer. (purpose: Cover retreat)

BTW: Do we want to turn this into an obstacle for the enemy too? I'd change (Purpose: Cover retreat) -> (Purpose: Cover retreat, obstacle to divide enemies).

 

[Kiba]

More protection on the MEW covering? Also, on the Goo Bomb traps.

If we want to remove that and change to "Earth Domes" or something I'm game.

General Note:
I do not consider "Create MEW everything." to be valid to all our construction needs since it either costs significant chakra or significant time. We need to minimize expenditure of either in whatever way we can.

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I have no idea what you're thinking. Force walls are invisible walls with sharp edges.

 

[Emstar]

I have no idea what you're thinking. Force walls are invisible walls with sharp edges.

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Yes, this is known.

Ill switch/axe the force walls bit in the defensive covering, they may be stupid and jump on it.

Re: Pitfall traps:

Theres a negligible probability this poses a danger.

Suggestion: Provide an alternative instead if you dont like that

 

[Cariyaga]

Your descrptive diagram should also probably show the tiny safe paths for use when jumping over the walls.

 

[Adept_Woodwright]

@MMKII
Definitely don't have the water stored to turn an underground ring into a puddle

Should choose exactly what gets MEWed to prevent salt. Recommend Floor and prisoner section. Everything else is unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Floor at minimum.

Only want one safe path through the rings - no splitting attention. Recommend placing a coloring in the trapped region between abattis rings.

 

[Cariyaga]

@MMKII
Definitely don't have the water stored to turn an underground ring into a puddle

Should choose exactly what gets MEWed to prevent salt. Recommend Floor and prisoner section. Everything else is unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Floor at minimum.

Only want one safe path through the rings - no splitting attention. Recommend placing a coloring in the trapped region between abattis rings.

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How do you suggest retreating safely, then? We need a path we can use but they can't.

 

[Emstar]

Your descrptive diagram should also probably show the tiny safe paths for use when jumping over the walls.

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How do you suggest retreating safely, then? We need a path we can use but they can't.

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Consider:

1)I think CQC is only viable at the entrance of each layer. We cannot do a bunch of prolonged engagements.
2) We will likely have a big Pangolin with us that cannot just tiptoe through traps. Any safe path big enough for him is too large.
3) We already have LBF air domes providing Instant Zone borders to slow enemies down.
4) Ranged fire will cover the retreat


I will modify the strategy to only engage in CQC at the entrances (where we can quickly and easily retreat).Acceptable?

I do not see people not emulating our retreat once we reveal we know how to step around traps (they can just look at what we do). So I don't want extra safe paths towards the facility.

@MMKII
Definitely don't have the water stored to turn an underground ring into a puddle

Should choose exactly what gets MEWed to prevent salt. Recommend Floor and prisoner section. Everything else is unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Floor at minimum.

Only want one safe path through the rings - no splitting attention. Recommend placing a coloring in the trapped region between abattis rings.

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1)I'll remove the water thing then.
2) I don't care about the facility other than "MEWed and 5SB-ed a bit" for more cover if necessary. Optimizing stuff in the facility is a waste of word count IMO since we will be fighting inside it at a last resort. They will do whatever is considered optimal IC anyway according to the plan guidelines, even if it goes against one of the components.
3) I agree on the paths thing. We can't make some unholy spiderwork of stuff for EJ to get a migraine over. Thats not very efficient and a bit mean.

 

[Noumero]

[defense layout]

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Previous "safe path" was straight, wasn't it? I'm dubious regarding the change to a circular one. My reasoning:

• We will not be able to turn everything except the safe path into a truly impassable ground, due to lack of time & resources as well as the non-lethality restriction.
• As a consequence, if STR decides to attack us from an "unsafe" direction, they principally will be able to do this without instantly losing or sustaining heavy loses.
• We are trying to incentive them to assault through the safe path by making it seem significantly more safe, as well as by employing Shikamaru's manipulations.
• As a consequence, if we don't make the safe path straight and visibly devoid of traps, they will ignore it and attack however they want.

Which part of this you disagree with, if any?

Do you care overly much if I include a simple picture or two to clarify general design ideas?
This will likely give you a better idea of what we want without turning 100-200 words of the plan into overly descriptive word-spaghetti.

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Previous answer to similar question:

Also, how are pictures counted towards a plan's word count? For example, the picture of the layout of our T&I facility and some MS Paint arrows to show where traps and zones are, blueprints for something like skywalkers or an air ship, or the optimal shipping polycule.

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Speaking only for myself here, since the other QMs aren't around right now:

Don't try to exploit the system and pictures won't won't against you at all. If I feel like people are taking advantage then I will just stop giving out bonus XP and start looking for other ways to incentivize short plans. @Velorien and @OliWhail can speak to their own thoughts.

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[Kiba]

Re: Pitfall traps:

Theres a negligible probability this poses a danger

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How do you know that's a negligible risk factor?

 

[Emstar]

Previous "safe path" was straight, wasn't it? I'm dubious regarding the change to a circular one. My reasoning:

• We will not be able to turn everything except the safe path into a truly impassable ground, due to lack of time & resources as well as the non-lethality restriction.
• As a consequence, if STR decides to attack us from an "unsafe" direction, they principally will be able to do this without instantly losing or sustaining heavy loses.
• We are trying to incentive them to assault through the safe path by making it seem significantly more safe, as well as by employing Shikamaru's manipulations.
• As a consequence, if we don't make the safe path straight and visibly devoid of traps, they will ignore it and attack however they want.

Which part of this you disagree with, if any?

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Ok. I see your objection re: Believability. I'm out for a bit but I can change the Safe Path bit to be "Relatively straight, but snakes around a bit to maximize travel time." Is this acceptable? Less egregious than making them spiral around everywhere. @Adept_Woodwright This is what you proposed earlier right?

If either of you has suggestions on how to edit the plan with this in mind, feel free to do so.

Previous answer to similar question:

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I viewed this as "Do not try to game the word count by piling on a bunch of diagrams or pictures loaded with complex information."

I think putting clarifying diagrams is helpful if they are relatively simple. I think what I've put in that quote is okay, and doesn't skirt the rules in a rude way IMO.

It is of course up to @eaglejarl (these are set up to avoid giving QM's headaches over complex plans afterall).

How do you know that's a negligible risk factor?

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These are shallow and I don't think ninja will be using Earth jutsu to sandshark their way through our safe path (theyd be deeper). So a head on collision is unlikely.

A top-down collision is beyond unlikely: The region of error has minimal volume (by a few orders of magnitude) if we tile them together tightly. If we get in a tizzy over optimizing against P < 1/10,000 chances of something going wrong, we should change our traps to shoot silly string and bubblegum so that no one gets blinded if they go off near an eyeball or something equally probable.

 

[Kiba]

@MKII word count is at least over 200 over @eaglejarl 's requirement.

 

[Emstar]

@MKII word count is at least over 200 over @eaglejarl 's requirement.

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He has stated "This can go negative" so I'm viewing this as pertaining to the bonus XP rules we've established unless he clarifies otherwise.

I have addressed your objection to pitfall traps in a previous post edit.

 

[Cariyaga]

@MKII word count is at least over 200 over @eaglejarl 's requirement.

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200 word threshold means we still get +1 FP XP, IIRC.