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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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I love Kagome so much.


faflec said:
Oh god I just thought of something horrifying.

What happens if Skywalkers get retcon'd? There's already precedent (*******) for flight-based powers getting erased from reality.
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Then Kagome will tell us, and all we have to do is believe him, because he has lived through all the previous versions of the matrix.



TaliesinSkye said:
So do we have any answer for why Kagome remembers shifts but everyone else doesn't? It can't just be that he's a sealmaster or the other sealmasters would remember too.


Clearly the sky squid are the secret masters of reality.
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-because I fucking called it.
 
One thought for a start of combat ambush: have the pangolins and maybe some of the ninja lay burrowed in wait a bit outside the minefield perimeter. When enemies first get close they can spring out and trap them with their backs to the minefield and try to force them into it. It'll probably ruin whatever tactics they've prepared for dealing with minefields.
 
MMKII said:
Keep in mind, we DONT have to spend time on 5SB sealing.
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Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh

In-character, I think Hazō doesn't know that, but he might assume Kagome would do it? But maybe he'd feel guilty about the assumption given how his talk with Akane went.

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My reaction to the thought of easing off 5SB production because of this interlude is "METAGAMING!!!"

blegh
 
Briefvoice said:
Okay, in all seriousness, if Henge is really gone than it needs to be made more explicit than some lines buried in the middle of a Kagome Journal Entry lore update.

Not so much for the people reading the thread right now, but for the people a month from now who might stumble across the quest and binge through the archives without reading the discussion posts in-between. This probably happens reasonably often, and such a person would almost certainly miss the relatively subtle way it was done here and be left wondering what the hell happened.
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Absent the use of colors and oversized fonts, I'm not sure how to make it any more explicit or less subtle than to literally say "Henge is gone" and "no one remembers it". Especially given that I said it twice and spent multiple paragraphs referencing it being gone, the implications, and thoroughly establishing that retcons were an in-universe thing that people typically don't remember.

What more do you think would be needed?

MMKII said:
Taking into account some of the previous discussion on defensive strats, as well as EJ's comment regarding us totally being able to warn the encroaching horde of any weak explosive minefields we set up, I have updated my previous image:
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Note that I was very clear to say that my endorsement was based on how much I would enjoy writing it, not on whether or not it was a good idea. It might work brilliantly or it might blow up in your face with epic firepower.
 
Dissonance said:
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh

In-character, I think Hazō doesn't know that, but he might assume Kagome would do it? But maybe he'd feel guilty about the assumption given how his talk with Akane went.

Like
My reaction to the thought of easing off 5SB production because of this interlude is "METAGAMING!!!"

blegh
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Depend on if the delivery makes it on rest day or the end of second round.
 
eaglejarl said:
Absent the use of colors and oversized fonts, I'm not sure how to make it any more explicit or less subtle than to literally say "Henge is gone" and "no one remembers it". Especially given that I said it twice and spent multiple paragraphs referencing it being gone, the implications, and thoroughly establishing that retcons were an in-universe thing that people typically don't remember.

What more do you think would be needed?
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At the end of the latest update:

A/N: To be clear for those just reading the threadmarks: Henge was removed as a jutsu shortly after the fourth event in the chunin exams. It was simply too problematic/unfun to QM or plan around. In order to remove it with the least amount of fuss/disruption to the world we've decided that <mechanics of how people's memories interact with the grue-eating>.
 
Does anyone remember how big an area basic explosive seals (not implosion seals) cover? Trying to work out how many we'd need for the 75 meter radius death zone to be properly treecapitated.
e:
eaglejarl said:
"Why are you so confident, Jiraiya?" the Tsuchikage asked, reading the proposed deal in turn. "A is correct. Your children are simply too far behind. Yes, your daughter is a Summoner and before the Exams you equipped them with a ridiculous number of seals. Still, even if they defeat all the other contestants in this first round they would be crushed in the second."
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Also, ahahahahahahah, they think Jiraiya provided most of our seals. Boy is that a mistake.
 
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Dissonance said:
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh

In-character, I think Hazō doesn't know that, but he might assume Kagome would do it? But maybe he'd feel guilty about the assumption given how his talk with Akane went.

Like
My reaction to the thought of easing off 5SB production because of this interlude is "METAGAMING!!!"

blegh
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Not really. I mean we originally planned to just do a 48 hour 5SB marathon after Round 2 before *alien warlord debt consequemces* seemed threatening. "Dealing with it later" is perfectly IC.

eaglejarl said:
Note that I was very clear to say that my endorsement was based on how much I would enjoy writing it, not on whether or not it was a good idea. It might work brilliantly or it might blow up in your face with epic firepower.
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*groans*

Duly noted.
 
1234qwerty said:
Also, how are pictures counted towards a plan's word count?
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Speaking only for myself here, since the other QMs aren't around right now:

Don't try to exploit the system and pictures won't won't against you at all. If I feel like people are taking advantage then I will just stop giving out bonus XP and start looking for other ways to incentivize short plans. @Velorien and @OliWhail can speak to their own thoughts.

Kurkistan said:
At the end of the latest update:

A/N: To be clear for those just reading the threadmarks: Henge was removed as a jutsu shortly after the fourth event in the chunin exams. It was simply too problematic/unfun to QM or plan around. In order to remove it with the least amount of fuss/disruption to the world we've decided that <mechanics of how people's memories interact with the grue-eating>.
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I strongly prefer to handle things like this in-character, and I find that readers tend to be smarter and more attentive than I expected.
 
eaglejarl said:
Absent the use of colors and oversized fonts, I'm not sure how to make it any more explicit or less subtle than to literally say "Henge is gone" and "no one remembers it". Especially given that I said it twice and spent multiple paragraphs referencing it being gone, the implications, and thoroughly establishing that retcons were an in-universe thing that people typically don't remember.

What more do you think would be needed?
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I was going to say in a similar way you announced the transition from the old system to the FATe rules... but looking back at threadmarks I'm not sure that's very clear either.

The simplest way might be to edit something into the initial informational post at the beginning of the thread explaining that the quest started on one system and then after Chapter 159 switched to Fated to Die rules. Then another note after that saying that readers might be confused by the disappearance of the Henge post Chapter 200 after it featured so prominently in the story and explaining that the GMs had to retcon it out in the spirit of balance.

It wouldn't hurt to edit in a spoiler box at the bottom of Interlude: Journal, Entry #20,934 that looks something like:

Note the retconning out of Henge is not a Kagome hallucination or a joke on the part of the GMs. For reasons of balance discussed in the thread.... etc.

I'll note you did put such a message in under chapter 159.

EDIT: There were originally two additional scenes at the end of this chapter. They are no longer canon but are still available in the Apocrypha. Those scenes included a massive attack on the fort by multiple teams of enemy ninja. The homebrewed rules system that we were using at the time was poorly designed and needing to run a battle that size absolutely broke the QMs, so we put things on hold as we moved to a modified form of the Dresden Files RPG rules.

Designing the new system and putting together new character sheets took about four months; we continued publishing on schedule during that time but the updates were either omake (i.e., not actually part of MfD canon) or interludes (i.e. things that are canon but don't advance the main plot -- flashbacks, scenes that focus on people other than the main characters, etc. If you want to read:

  • The interludes: Continue by way of the '>>' threadmarks button at the bottom right corner of this post
  • The omake: Check the 'Apocrypha' and 'Sidestory' lists at the bottom of the page, just above the comment box.
  • The next actual story post: Chapter 160 v2: Opening with a Bang
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Again, please take this in the spirit that I'm not quibbling to make extra work for you. People really do come to Sufficient Velocity new all the time, see the quest on the front page, and decide to binge it from the beginning. I did, I think Roomba did... pretty sure there are several regular posters who were not in the quest from the beginning. A couple of notes to ensure that that such people understand some of the system changes and retcons will help a lot. The stuff in Journal Entry 20,934 is very clear if that's the only FtD chapter you read that day, but to someone binging the quest it might be the dozenth chapter they've read in a row, and by that point it's hard not to start skimming.
 
eaglejarl said:
Speaking only for myself here, since the other QMs aren't around right now:

Don't try to exploit the system and pictures won't won't against you at all. If I feel like people are taking advantage then I will just stop giving out bonus XP and start looking for other ways to incentivize short plans. @Velorien and @OliWhail can speak to their own thoughts.
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Well, if pictures are worth a thousand words, then they are to be avoided at all costs.
 
@Briefvoice does a better job than I of arguing for something more explicit, but I'll throw in two more of my cents.

eaglejarl said:
I strongly prefer to handle things like this in-character, and I find that readers tend to be smarter and more attentive than I expected.
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Why do you have this preference and what are the downsides to going against it?

If every single person to ever read this quest picks up on the in-character hints then I'd wager that they see the A/N and go "yup, as I suspected." Then they go about their day, probably pleased with themselves for figuring it out themselves before needing to be told.

In the worst case there they feel you're not confident in your own writing skills and/or that making it explicit ruins the "henge? What henge?" joke. Not exactly the worst of consequences, in my mind.

For anyone who doesn't catch on to the in-universe clues (for instance dismissing this latest update as just Kagome being Kagome and/glossing over his paranoid ramblings) things get a lot dicier. They'll get confused and frustrated as they see henge not being used and/or accounted for when it should be, and think all the sudden MfD has a less rational setting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you didn't get one or two people de-lurking just to ask something to the effect of "hey why didn't you just use henge back in chapter X?"

Once these people are clued in (if they ever are) then at best they shrug and at worst they feel embarrassed/stupid for not catching something that was deemed obvious by he QMs.
 
Kurkistan said:
@Briefvoice does a better job than I of arguing for something more explicit, but I'll throw in two more of my cents.



Why do you have this preference and what are the downsides to going against it?

If every single person to ever read this quest picks up on the in-character hints then I'd wager that they see the A/N and go "yup, as I suspected." Then they go about their day, probably pleased with themselves for figuring it out themselves before needing to be told.

In the worst case there they feel you're not confident in your own writing skills and/or that making it explicit ruins the "henge? What henge?" joke. Not exactly the worst of consequences, in my mind.

For anyone who doesn't catch on to the in-universe clues (for instance dismissing this latest update as just Kagome being Kagome and/glossing over his paranoid ramblings) things get a lot dicier. They'll get confused and frustrated as they see henge not being used and/or accounted for when it should be, and think all the sudden MfD has a less rational setting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you didn't get one or two people de-lurking just to ask something to the effect of "hey why didn't you just use henge back in chapter X?"

Once these people are clued in (if they ever are) then at best they shrug and at worst they feel embarrassed/stupid for not catching something that was deemed obvious by he QMs.
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Seconded - while I agree that players can be amazingly insightful, one lesson I've learned from my GMing is that they can also amazingly obtuse (and it can be difficult to predict which is going to happen when). Putting in a little A/N is likely to do more good than harm.
 
Put the A/N at the end of the next chapter if you'd rather not edit the previous chapter, I'd say. Also has the benefit of most non-interlude chapters having A/N anyway, so it's not out of the ordinary.
 
Apropos of nothing, we should totally put all our XP into Taijutsu so we can finally dodge Inoue's Hair Ruffle no Jutsu. It'd be just too embarrassing if we are promoted to Chunin and still get hit by that.
 
Tua said:
Apropos of nothing, we should totally put all our XP into Taijutsu so we can finally dodge Inoue's Hair Ruffle no Jutsu. It'd be just too embarrassing if we are promoted to Chunin and still get hit by that.
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Thats an Alertness/Athletics roll, no?
 
Vecht said:
What is the current voting situation?
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Nothing, no voting. Someone will write punching, I think? @eaglejarl, is the next update an interlude, or more punching, or what?

If an interlude, I have a suggestion.

[x] AU Interlude: Hazou spontaneously remembers all aborted timelines: The Youthsuit Incident, The First Death of Minami, The Second Event's Unlimited Sealing Failures In A Doomed Fortress, Hot & Drunk & Anonymous Disaster

Vecht said:
FFFTPTPFPTP OMG SSHHHHHH
Do you want it to notice us?
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I do. It'll be fun.
Cariyaga said:
It's always been taijutsu in the past.
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If I recall correctly, she could also do it via a genjutsu.
 
Also @Erolki. Missed that you were on the bandwagon as well.

Briefvoice said:
I'll note you did put such a message in under chapter 159.
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There's a big difference between "Hey, you're not crazy. This chapter that you previously read has in fact been edited ex post facto and lost about 1/3 of its length" and "Hey, this thing that was explicitly stated multiple times in the update to have happened has in fact happened."
 
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