- Location
- Yes.
I worry that the documents could be destroyed if we try exploding the lockboxes.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Potato land
Denial about the breakup, but he's still upset about having the fight with Akane.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Best not to do that. Otherwise it could destroy the documents. I do agree with avoiding having to lockpick them or exploding them or anything, that's a silly risk.
There's only one set of documents we actually care to possess, which is our target ones. The others we want to destroy, right? So, just explode those lockboxes.
Does eaglejarl want to write social, or does he want to write punching? Hmmm...
- Location
- Yes.
Oh those lockboxes. Yeah, I guess...
Oh, I'm 100% on board with taking them, I'm just not sure we'll get any real utility out of trying clever game-theoretic negotiations over them instead of just sticking them with the Pangolins until we need them. Still, might work.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
He'll have to write social anyway. Unless he just skips over that, which I'd be fine with.
- Location
- US
We want a red team representative to turn each document into the central proctor at the East gate, to ensure maximum point penalties to Blue
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
There is writing social and then there is writing pre-punching badass boasts.
- Location
- Potato land
I don't think it's particularly clever game-theoretic negotiations; we have something they want, so they do something for us. That's about as simple as things can get as far as leverage goes. The clever part is setting everything up in such a way that every top squad has to watch their own team for betrayal throughout round 2, but the details of that are still up in the air.
Trust me, I generally much prefer boring and simple over clever and complex.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
We can do that with ISC if they're red, or let them keep them if they're blue. For everyone else, we should probably have the weakest person turn it in, and then stick them in a cell.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Current plans are not doing that. Current plans are just destroying them, sans ours.
There's a day between Round 1 and Round 2. Would they not bathe? Or would the scent stick around long enough that washing wouldn't matter?
- Location
- Yes.
Sure.
I would love some more feedback on my plan for the sake of avoiding -insert massive fuckup here-.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Taking into account the feedback that's been given so far, here's Be Kakashi again. Best guess, the plan's around 380 words.
[X] Action Plan: Be Kakashi
Outline
Maximize point differential between our squad and everybody else by knockout and word-half seizure.
Prep
[X] Action Plan: Be Kakashi
Outline
Maximize point differential between our squad and everybody else by knockout and word-half seizure.
Prep
- Convincing squadmates:
- This strategy will get every single one of us into the tournament while also largely avoiding serious harm; overwhelming force is nice like that.
- That said, cooperation is a favor to us, no matter how much it might also benefit you.
- On the other hand, we cannot afford sudden but inevitable betrayals on our best chance at getting this whole squad to the tournament.
- Word-halves
- We'll publicly announce our squad has them during the break.
- Too hard to hide we took them.
- Will trade for full-strength explosive tags; they deserve something for their efforts.
- Will not protect them if they refuse trade.
- We'll publicly announce our squad has them during the break.
- Designate friendlies
- Will not knockout, intimidate, and steal word-halfs from friendlies, but will otherwise destroy their score and drain chakra as needed. Will require description.
- Designate ISC.
- If Doigama does not suggest Wolf compatriot, press.
- Will not knockout, intimidate, and steal word-halfs from friendlies, but will otherwise destroy their score and drain chakra as needed. Will require description.
- Seal distribution
- Do not want back:
- Training tag
- Weapon:2 for demolitions
- Oxygen Mask Seal
- Earmuff Seals
- Will want unused back:
- Goo Bombs
- Banshees
- Do not want back:
- Chakra redistribution
- Suggest permitting Noburi to measure and redistribute as necessary
- Chakra levels may be uneven after first event
- Transfer method is strange the first few times
- If intent is questioned, point out donated seals as collateral.
- If Kato lied about reserves, press. If explanation is not sufficiently good, drain and leave with medics.
- Suggest permitting Noburi to measure and redistribute as necessary
- Brief squadmates on high-level opposition and facility layout.
- Reveal bare minimum about Leaf teams.
- Always scout ahead, prioritizing broad situation and avoiding capture.
- Enemies:
- Seize documents
- Locked up
- Terrified
- Overdrained to moderate physical consequences
- Have word-halfs taken
- Dabbed with perfume behind ears.
- Siege our Blue facility first
- During redistribution, signal ISC and prioritize scouting other sites. Deliver documents in force.
- Prioritize teams based on Keiko's calculations to maintain rampage
- Redistribute and repeat after clearing site.
- Do not revisit sites unless to drop off prisoners or insufficient point differential.
- Open field:
- Explosions to distract, intimidate
- Area-disabling seals to weaken targets
- Attack with overwhelming physical force
- Infiltrators watch for retreating enemies and reinforcements
- Chase fleeing enemies but don't waste time and chakra.
- Siege
- Breach from multiple directions simultaneously
- Clear room by room, scout with tags
- Seize key and documents
- Enemy team blatant rule violation: fetch proctor.
- Maintain OPSEC on pre-Leaf experiences.
- Watch Doigama/Kato seal usages.
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Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
@Roomba: This may also be relevant for your plan.
So this reminds me:
Should we be having our discussing in an Air Dome so the proctor can't hear us? You and me know that this an empty threat but imagine one of our teammates getting killed or Severe Consequences in a fight with an enemy squad, how would this look like if it becomes a matter of their word vs our word?
Why is the scout pangolin not being summoned first? Would make more sense for her to confirm that every one in the Blue Team is in the building. If they aren't we have two options: (1) If not spotted, grab a proctor immediately and get them the -1k penalty or (2) if we are spotted, eliminate the ones outside first so they can't group up inside.
Unsure what the first point means? We need to grab the word halves and injure anyone that is not ISC or the people our teammates pointed out earlier. I don't think we should be injuring Team Kurenai either but take their word halves and drain them. Drawback: Their bloodlines are ridiculously well suited to coordinating an assault on us in R2. Solution: If they are Red Team now, we don't care. If they are Blue Team now, promise them their word halves back after Round 2 if they don't attack us.
Intimidation: This is tough. We need to find a good balance of people actually coming to attack us in R2 so we can imprison them but not too many that we are overwhelmed (or worse: no one at all comes for us).
Is this something that is done quickly? If yes, all good. If not, we shouldn't send that many people and continue hunting other teams while our CPs last. I think we are fine though.
Take care we don't rush into a trapped area because imagining someone "fleeing" into pre-laid traps isn't that hard.
Why? Presumably they are still ahead of us in points and we shouldn't be this generous early on. Only once we see how successful our rampage has been should we consider giving them their word halves back on Day 2 and use them as negotiation tool.
So this reminds me:
Should we be having our discussing in an Air Dome so the proctor can't hear us? You and me know that this an empty threat but imagine one of our teammates getting killed or Severe Consequences in a fight with an enemy squad, how would this look like if it becomes a matter of their word vs our word?
Why is the scout pangolin not being summoned first? Would make more sense for her to confirm that every one in the Blue Team is in the building. If they aren't we have two options: (1) If not spotted, grab a proctor immediately and get them the -1k penalty or (2) if we are spotted, eliminate the ones outside first so they can't group up inside.
Unsure what the first point means? We need to grab the word halves and injure anyone that is not ISC or the people our teammates pointed out earlier. I don't think we should be injuring Team Kurenai either but take their word halves and drain them. Drawback: Their bloodlines are ridiculously well suited to coordinating an assault on us in R2. Solution: If they are Red Team now, we don't care. If they are Blue Team now, promise them their word halves back after Round 2 if they don't attack us.
Intimidation: This is tough. We need to find a good balance of people actually coming to attack us in R2 so we can imprison them but not too many that we are overwhelmed (or worse: no one at all comes for us).
Is this something that is done quickly? If yes, all good. If not, we shouldn't send that many people and continue hunting other teams while our CPs last. I think we are fine though.
Take care we don't rush into a trapped area because imagining someone "fleeing" into pre-laid traps isn't that hard.
Why? Presumably they are still ahead of us in points and we shouldn't be this generous early on. Only once we see how successful our rampage has been should we consider giving them their word halves back on Day 2 and use them as negotiation tool.
- Location
- Under a Rock
The title is a Red Rising reference. It works. Changes are, fittingly, in red.
[]Action plan: Be Darrow
Outline:
[]Action plan: Be Darrow
Outline:
- Fulfill nominal objectives.
- KO other candidates (AMAP).
- Inflict maximum legal point penalties without causing serious injuries.
- Steal word-halves.
- Word-half custody:.
- Teammates deserve a share, but possession will be dangerous after this round.
- Offer explosives(real ones) in trade.
- If they decline, don't protect later.
- Make aware: Plan to be public re: possession.
- Friendly participants: We want to avoid overscrewing 1 Leaf squad (no KO, no word-half stealing); ask if others have similar wishes.
- One friendly per person is the baseline. Be flexible, but don't allow abuse.
- If Doigama doesn't mention Wolf compatriot, ask him about them.
- Check allies' chakra reserves:
- Pretense: Familiarizing to ease future transfers.
- If Kato lied about his reserves, confront. Bring up that he concealed his other village mate in the competition as well.
- If the team agrees, drain him of chakra and deposit him at the medic station.
- Prefer no fighting.
- Otherwise, keep an eye on him and don't give him any seals.
- Chakra Sharing: May need teammates' chakra to bootstrap Pangolin summoning.
- Point out given out seals as proof of good intentions.
- Debrief
- Debrief them about info on the dossier
- Be vague about Leaf teams.
- Share Hinata's sketch of general facility layout
- All facilities will likely be similar.
- Debrief them about info on the dossier
- Carrot and Stick
- If Teammates seem to be uncooperative or suspicious (with respect to above) note how flexible we are with taking everyones interests into account.
- Ask if they want to accept surrenders, and what horrible things we should do to those who betray our trust (They should get the hint)
- Choices for social spec people:
- Safety
- They act as a chakra battery. They don't get seals, word halves, or friendly people.
- Honor
- Act as a fighter.
- Glory
- Under a flag of truce, convince another team who is way behind to join us for rampaging. Be clear that we will fight each other once everyone else is out, but this is their only way tot he tournament.
- Safety
- Summon suggestion for Keiko: Pankurashun, Pandajouru, Pangaya, Panashe (can delay until after defeating designated Blue Team).
- Explosives: Encourage liberal use.
- Training: For people.
- Weapon:2 for demolitions.
- Oxygen Mask: Protect from Doigama's poison.
- Earmuff seals: Banshees.
- Banshees/Goo Bombs: Frontline fighters.
- Stress: Valuable, we want them back if unused.
- Use Pangolin pepper Macerators if tactically appropriate (avoid friendly fire).
- Scouting and Interference: Panashe, Doigama, Kato.
- Support and Ranged: Keiko, Noburi, Gomi.
- Assault: Everyone else.
- General:
- Always scout ahead. Priorities: Obtain a broad view of situation, avoid capture. Fast is more important than unseen.
- If scouting is confident they can take someone out without getting bogged down, do so.
- Accept surrender from non-top candidates: Drain chakra, inflict consequences, have them unlock the file cabinet, leave word-halves. Don't mislead them on the nature of the surrender.
- Destroy enemy documents, put other Red Teams into cells. Give everyone Moderate Consequences (ideally via chakra drain). Steal word-halves
- If we can get all non friendlies on a blue team DQed, stock some red prisoners in their base. Ask if the lone friendly wants to join the rampage.
- Prefer attacking softer targets. Prioritize Red Teams (harder to pin down).
- Agreed-upon 'friendly participants' can surrender without consequences and keep half words. Their teams and objectives get the normal treatment.
- Keiko Intimidates captured top team members into being afraid to come after us in round 2.
- Social spec warns them that people might try to stage a slaughter outside our door, so don't get manipulated into going there.
- Always scout ahead. Priorities: Obtain a broad view of situation, avoid capture. Fast is more important than unseen.
- Breach our designated Blue facility first. Recover key/documents.
- Afterwards:
- Noburi redistributes chakra.
- Signal Team Asuma.
- Send scouts to non-Team Asuma sites.
- Deliver documents to proctor station in full force.
- Move on to next target, rinse and repeat after site is clear/mostly clear. Leave the team with Asuma squad for last.
- General idea: Shock & Awe.
- Explosions: Distract/intimidate.
- Strongly consider tunneling
- Strongly consider firelog macerators to disable traps over a wide area.
- Area-disabling seals: Soften up targets.
- Attack with overwhelming force.
- Approach buildings under cover of force walls
- Get force wall cover by having clones substitute ahead using thrown rocks, and then placing the seal.
- Take force wall down once allies get close
- Explosions: Distract/intimidate.
- Goo Bombs/Banshees: Open engagements.
- Ideally throw in open spaces.
- Inside buildings: Can also throw into rooms with likely enemy presence.
- Interference + Support: Can use explosives. Includes Keiko throwing Firelog Macerators above enemies' heads.
- Assault: Engage stunned/immobilized enemies. Pangolins lead charge.
- If assaulting building: Breach multiple directions simultaneously, clear room by room.
- Focus enemies, scouts check traps afterwards.
- Support/Interference: Watch for retreats/reinforcements.
- Chase fleeing enemies. Don't waste time on individuals if hard to track.
- Fetch proctors if enemy teams blatantly violate rules.
- Around Doigama/Kato: Don't leak too much information re: missing-nin activities/Leaf politics. Track their seal use if they cheat on returns.
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- Location
- [REDACTED]
Well, for one I'd be somewhat surprised if ninja bathed regularly at all, considering the time period. Secondly, I'm not sure they'd pay particular attention to the back of their ears even if they do bathe
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
All it takes is one member of a team to not have bathed super thoroughly.
- Location
- US
Protoplan: In all things Balance
Opening Round
-Dominate
--opponents Blue: If ISC, leave unconscious, but unharmed. Unconscious + MC everyone else - -300 pts. Chakra drain to full on everyone, then chakra drain the remainder into the ether.
-Turn in documents
-Dominate
-- red teams: Takedown as quickly as possible. Leave everyone unconscious + restrained and in a cell. Choose two 'spared' people (ideally from ISC, or fully undamaged team) and leave them and their teammate unharmed (see clean-up). Inflict MC on everyone else (unless Leaf / Wolf). Drain everyone but spared folks to full, drain spared to just above 24-hr limit.
-- blue teams: Takedown after red teams are taken down. Leave everyone drained + unconscious + inflict MC (unless Leaf / Wolf Guy). (-300 pts each)
Ideal State: Everyone but our team in unconscious. Everyone but 'spared', Leaf and Wolf have MC. Only 'spared' folks still have a tiny sliver of chakra
Clean-Up:
-Arrange Cells such that Blue do not take bonuses for prisoners
-Find the three documents for our opponents
-With less than one hour to spare, waken the spared folks, hand them the documents, and tell them to deliver them to the proctor. Explain that they are being situated such that they have a chance to proceed to the finals, and to provide additional opposition to blue teams next round. They will have next to no Chakra, so should not be able to put up a fight against our team
EV:
Red, Spared, Not cell: -150-210+75+5 = -280 (total 6 people)
Red, In cell: -150-210 = -360
Blue: -225-75 = -300
Us: 185
Next round:
If MC penalties persist
Red Max = -150 + 185 (has ISC) = 35 pts
Blue Max = -75 + 140 = 65 pts (has our R1 ally and 'spared')
Us Worst (save docs) = -100 pts
-- Red, Spared, Not Cell: -280+65 = -215 (300 pt diff)
-- Red, In Cell = -360 + 65 = -295 (380 pt diff)
-- Blue = -300 +35 = -265 (350 pt diff)
-- Us = 185 - 100 = 85
If MC penalties don't persist
Red Max = 185
Blue Max = 140
Us Worst (save docs) = 50
These are absolute worst case scenarios, and cannot all occur simultaneously. Note that there are only 6 total spared, not in cell, so it is acceptable for them to come out slightly ahead.
Edit: There are also 6 of our round one allies, making the spared+us contingent 15 strong, which is acceptable.
--
This strategy, if successfully implemented, generally makes Round 2 have 9-12 injured red face 3-5 fully capable blue on defense. Scores are still close enough where teams will need to get their maximum points to go forward, so they are motivated to continue and initially concentrate on their opponents.
If any team takes 2 unconscious, they are done. If we capture 5 Red, we win. If we can destroy other blue team documents, we win.
Thoughts?
Opening Round
-Dominate
--opponents Blue: If ISC, leave unconscious, but unharmed. Unconscious + MC everyone else - -300 pts. Chakra drain to full on everyone, then chakra drain the remainder into the ether.
-Turn in documents
-Dominate
-- red teams: Takedown as quickly as possible. Leave everyone unconscious + restrained and in a cell. Choose two 'spared' people (ideally from ISC, or fully undamaged team) and leave them and their teammate unharmed (see clean-up). Inflict MC on everyone else (unless Leaf / Wolf). Drain everyone but spared folks to full, drain spared to just above 24-hr limit.
-- blue teams: Takedown after red teams are taken down. Leave everyone drained + unconscious + inflict MC (unless Leaf / Wolf Guy). (-300 pts each)
Ideal State: Everyone but our team in unconscious. Everyone but 'spared', Leaf and Wolf have MC. Only 'spared' folks still have a tiny sliver of chakra
Clean-Up:
-Arrange Cells such that Blue do not take bonuses for prisoners
-Find the three documents for our opponents
-With less than one hour to spare, waken the spared folks, hand them the documents, and tell them to deliver them to the proctor. Explain that they are being situated such that they have a chance to proceed to the finals, and to provide additional opposition to blue teams next round. They will have next to no Chakra, so should not be able to put up a fight against our team
EV:
Red, Spared, Not cell: -150-210+75+5 = -280 (total 6 people)
Red, In cell: -150-210 = -360
Blue: -225-75 = -300
Us: 185
Next round:
If MC penalties persist
Red Max = -150 + 185 (has ISC) = 35 pts
Blue Max = -75 + 140 = 65 pts (has our R1 ally and 'spared')
Us Worst (save docs) = -100 pts
-- Red, Spared, Not Cell: -280+65 = -215 (300 pt diff)
-- Red, In Cell = -360 + 65 = -295 (380 pt diff)
-- Blue = -300 +35 = -265 (350 pt diff)
-- Us = 185 - 100 = 85
If MC penalties don't persist
Red Max = 185
Blue Max = 140
Us Worst (save docs) = 50
-- Red, Spared, Not Cell: -280+140 = -140 (365 pt diff)
-- Red, In Cell = -360 + 140= -220 (455 pt diff)
-- Blue = -300 +185 = -115 (350 pt diff)
-- Us = 185 + 30 = 235
-- Red, In Cell = -360 + 140= -220 (455 pt diff)
-- Blue = -300 +185 = -115 (350 pt diff)
-- Us = 185 + 30 = 235
These are absolute worst case scenarios, and cannot all occur simultaneously. Note that there are only 6 total spared, not in cell, so it is acceptable for them to come out slightly ahead.
Edit: There are also 6 of our round one allies, making the spared+us contingent 15 strong, which is acceptable.
--
This strategy, if successfully implemented, generally makes Round 2 have 9-12 injured red face 3-5 fully capable blue on defense. Scores are still close enough where teams will need to get their maximum points to go forward, so they are motivated to continue and initially concentrate on their opponents.
If any team takes 2 unconscious, they are done. If we capture 5 Red, we win. If we can destroy other blue team documents, we win.
Thoughts?
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- Location
- Yes.
The worry FMPOV is that we might not have enough chakra to summon and fight effectively, and that our goal is to smash ASAP. Also, I'm not sure that they'd get the -1k penalty for being outside, since it wouldn't make sense for at least some of them to get guard duty.
Because we need an incentive for them to actually surrender and save us time/chakra, and because they're not top teams and them having their word half doesn't screw us when counting points.
The rest I agree with, and have changed accordingly.
- Location
- US
That is bad. That's 75 points we're leaving on Blue's collective tables.
I'm not sure what this is trying to say? You'll probably have to expand that abbreviation.
How much are we willing to protect them once we aren't explicitly on a team with them anymore? Would we back them up if a dozen people came at them at once trying to recover word-halves? Do we want them to join what survives of STL between the end of the 5th Event and the end of the Events as a whole, and if not, how could we protect them? @Roomba, tagging you as well since you have basically the same line in your plan.
- Location
- US
NB is: Nota Bene, in latin. "Note Well"