Also, just to clarify. Multi-voting is allowed? Also, if I may ask where can I find the most current information about how XP/training work and chakra costs for different methods (so I can estimate things like how many clones can be made by X)?
 
Various people said:
How does mission pay work?

Here's some general details about how missions work. We're trying to figure out the exact numbers but there's a total absence of QM spoons for the task, and we'd like to get the help of the economically-talented members of the hivemind. Your task: Assign plausible numbers for cost of living in Konoha and attendant rates for mission pay. Your reward: +10 XP and the gratitude of your fellow questers. Let us know what information you need that isn't already available.


More information coming soon, but here's a starter:


Missions are paid by civilians. They go to the Hokage Tower and talk to the desk chūnin to get them filed. There will be some paper shuffling, it will be assigned a rank, the Hokage will sign off (usually a rubber stamp), and then one or more ninja will be assigned when they come available. Mission priority is set by the Tower and missions may not happen immediately if the selected personnel are not available right away. Typically the delay will not be more than a couple of days.

There's a standard scale -- D,C,B, and A-ranks. The ranks are subjective and determined on the spot. Pay varies within levels; clients can choose to pay above the minimum charge in order to increase the priority of their mission. (Note: This isn't a democracy, so ranks and pay are ultimately at the discretion of the Hokage and he can order a mission to cost more if he wants.)

D-rank:
Max Duration: A few hours
Risk: None
Description: Inside Leaf, low economic value, typically given to students and fresh genin. Basically chores. Used as teambuilding exercises. The Tower may not accept such missions if they feel it's a waste of their people's time.
Typical pay: 20 ryo/hour/ninja

C-rank:
Max Duration: 2 days
Risk: Low
Description: Anything outside Leaf is at least C-rank. Typically short-duration, low-risk missions. Little expectation of contact with hostile ninja or significant numbers of chakra beasts. Examples: escort a caravan to another town near Leaf, kill a small group of bandits.
Typical pay:

B-rank:
Max Duration: 2 weeks
Risk: Moderate.
Description Like a C-rank but with a longer duration (2 weeks+) or higher risk. Contact with hostile ninja or chakra beasts is probable. Example: escort a caravan to a city outside of Fire.
Typical pay:

A-rank:
Max Duration: Any
Risk: High
Description: Contact with hostile ninja / chakra beasts certain. Example: search-and-destroy a swath of land to eliminate all threats.
Typical pay:
 
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kk. So unless things get changed horribly by the lore update, would addition of a conditional where we only take a mission if our clan is in dire fiscal straits and we don't see another good option satisfy the the minus faction? Also, proposed changes to Prometheus to integrate GUNWANDs? I thought that was more of a training plan.
Gunwands are a gamechanger. The training plan was to integrate macerators into Hazou's fighting style.

Gunwands allow civilians to use any seal. I'm just calling them gunwands because that's how I imagine they'll look, and they can be used with macerators which basically makes a shotgun. Thus, gunwand.
Also, just to clarify. Multi-voting is allowed? Also, if I may ask where can I find the most current information about how XP/training and chakra costs for different methods (so I can estimate things like how many clones can be made by X)?
The wiki provides mostly-accurate information on technique functionality, the character sheets provide the most accurate information on it.

XP costs are 1 per level the skill or technique is being raised to , and 2 per level of the Attribute (which are, generally, only used for determining whether one can level a skill further -- they cap skills). Elemental Techniques have a slight variation: If one already has an elemental technique of level 10 or higher, levels in other techniques of the same element are at half cost.
 
Also, just to clarify. Multi-voting is allowed? Also, if I may ask where can I find the most current information about how XP/training work and chakra costs for different methods (so I can estimate things like how many clones can be made by X)?
MfD runs on an approval voting system. You may vote for as many plans as you like. If you need more detailed guidance on the voting mechanism, there's a post on the first page.

Rules in general can be found here. The doc is updated sporadically, but if something is missing, it's almost certainly been posted somewhere in the thread. Let us know and we'll add the relevant information (if you find it for us first, that would help even more).
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail

Let us say that the average D-rank mission is 3 hours, and that Because Teambuilding the average team that would take a D rank takes two a day. That's 40 ryo per day, let's say 6 days a week for 240 ryo a week. I assume that this is sufficient for a genin to survive alone with food and cheap (but not slum level) housing. Because I don't know, inflation.

I would say that the threat multiplier would best be adjusted by the Hokage -- or someone he trusts to estimate threat -- accordingly to the skill level required to complete the misison safely. So if something required an estimated 30 tac move/combat/awareness, it'd be, say, a 4x multiplier? Just throwing numbers out there.

20 * 8 (for a total of 24 hours) * 2 (for two days) = 320 Ryo minimum for a C rank mission, but that doesn't account for the additional risk. Let's say that the basic C rank provides a... let's call it a 2x Threat multiplier. So 640 minimum ryo per person for a max length C rank mission.

160 (24 hours) * 14 (max length) * 4 (average threat multiplier) = 8960 ryo per person for a max length B rank mission

160 (24 hours) * 25 (length of "milk run" intel-gathering mission) * 6 (multiplier for being involved in an engagement with a jounin) = 24,000 Ryo per person (96,000 to the clan's coffers, 24,000 to Akane, 24,000 to Minami's family)

e: You could probably pull inspiration from the rulebooks for Shadowrun runs on this, actually.
 
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Also, just to clarify. Multi-voting is allowed? Also, if I may ask where can I find the most current information about how XP/training work and chakra costs for different methods (so I can estimate things like how many clones can be made by X)?
Multi-voting is actively encouraged. It's why we're using approval voting in the first place.

Thank you!

Relevant:
How many civilians per ninja? Is civilian productivity any higher than ancient times?
Leaf: 30,000 total population (ninja + civilian)
Early medieval tech level
Only ~1500 ninja in Fire (all based in Leaf although some have long-duration assignments in major cities/towns)
Numbers are approximate, but:
1200 genin
250 chūnin
50 jōnin: 20 special jōnin, 20 regular, 10 elite (Gai, Kakashi…)
Typical ninja teams are 3 genin + 1 commander (chūnin/jōnin)
Some ninja operate solo. Teams of like-ranked people are occasionally assembled, usually for short term use.
 
i just realized that Jiraiya showing off the Wandgun to the Merchant Council will probably elicit a similar reaction (though less technically-inclined, as they aren't sealmasters) to his upon Mari showing off Skywalkers.
Multi-voting is actively encouraged. It's why we're using approval voting in the first place.


Leaf: 30,000 total population (ninja + civilian)
Early medieval tech level
Only ~1500 ninja in Fire (all based in Leaf although some have long-duration assignments in major cities/towns)
Numbers are approximate, but:
1200 genin
250 chūnin
50 jōnin: 20 special jōnin, 20 regular, 10 elite (Gai, Kakashi…)
Typical ninja teams are 3 genin + 1 commander (chūnin/jōnin)
Some ninja operate solo. Teams of like-ranked people are occasionally assembled, usually for short term use.
Ah, I was wrong, it's 5% then. That's actually pretty good, although I will note that the numbers are likely to be significantly lower outside of Leaf.
 
Multi-voting is actively encouraged. It's why we're using approval voting in the first place.


Leaf: 30,000 total population (ninja + civilian)
Early medieval tech level
Only ~1500 ninja in Fire (all based in Leaf although some have long-duration assignments in major cities/towns)
Numbers are approximate, but:
1200 genin
250 chūnin
50 jōnin: 20 special jōnin, 20 regular, 10 elite (Gai, Kakashi…)
Typical ninja teams are 3 genin + 1 commander (chūnin/jōnin)
Some ninja operate solo. Teams of like-ranked people are occasionally assembled, usually for short term use.
...holy hell losing those twelve ANBU must have been brutal on Leaf's military apparatus
 
@eaglejarl
I've read Introduction to Economic Analysis (which purports to contain "standard intermediate microeconomics material and some material that ought to be standard but is not"); does anyone else here have comparable or superior background?
I have read The Cambist and Lord Iron :lol

To start with
1. How much ryo is costs to handle the bare minimum living expenses of a person for a day. (This provides a standard for comparison)
2. How much wages a typical serf gets a day on average (This lets us calculate wealth using Engel's law - Wikipedia)
3, How much nobles take as taxes.
 
@eaglejarl

I have read The Cambist and Lord Iron :lol

To start with
1. How much ryo is costs to handle the bare minimum living expenses of a person for a day. (This provides a standard for comparison)
2. How much wages a typical serf gets a day on average (This lets us calculate wealth using Engel's law - Wikipedia)
3, How much nobles take as taxes.
Your task: Assign plausible numbers for cost of living in Konoha and attendant rates for mission pay.
Do you want to lose out on 10 XP? D:
 
I assume this is actual rank and not skill level? So there should be a few chunnin with Jonin skill level who don't actually are Jonin ? Or are they automatically special Jonin?
I suspect that if we asked we'd get a "That information's above your ability to protect and you haven't proven you've learned to keep your mouth shut yet, kid."
 
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Note that this was edited in to an earlier post in case anyone missed it:

@eaglejarl , @Velorien , @OliWhail , Does Wind Wall work together with Skywalkers? Mari appearently spend time to learn new tricks with Skywalkers so she should be able to tell us. If yes we should probably have Keiko train it.
No. Skywalkers create a dome which is anchored in place, thereby canceling the impetus given by the Wind Wall.

Cool economic shinies:

@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail

Let us say that the average D-rank mission is 3 hours, and that Because Teambuilding the average team that would take a D rank takes two a day. That's 40 ryo per day, let's say 6 days a week for 240 ryo a week. I assume that this is sufficient for a genin to survive alone with food and cheap (but not slum level) housing. Because I don't know, inflation.

I would say that the threat multiplier would best be adjusted by the Hokage -- or someone he trusts to estimate threat -- accordingly to the skill level required to complete the misison safely. So if something required an estimated 30 tac move/combat/awareness, it'd be, say, a 4x multiplier? Just throwing numbers out there.

20 * 8 (for a total of 24 hours) * 2 (for two days) = 320 Ryo minimum for a C rank mission, but that doesn't account for the additional risk. Let's say that the basic C rank provides a... let's call it a 2x Threat multiplier. So 640 minimum ryo per person for a max length C rank mission.

160 (24 hours) * 14 (max length) * 4 (average threat multiplier) = 8960 ryo per person for a max length B rank mission

160 (24 hours) * 25 (length of "milk run" intel-gathering mission) * 6 (multiplier for being involved in an engagement with a jounin) = 24,000 Ryo per person (96,000 to the clan's coffers, 24,000 to Akane, 24,000 to Minami's family)

e: You could probably pull inspiration from the rulebooks for Shadowrun runs on this, actually.
Thank you, this is the kind of thing we're looking for. One note: D-ranks are 20/hour/ninja -- note the per hour. 3 hours sounds about right, but that means each genin makes 60 ryo per D-rank.

Note that we're pulling these numbers out of our ears at this point -- I don't recall that we've shown any Leaf prices thus far but if we have then we might need to modify the above-mentioned rate for D-ranks if it doesn't jibe.
 
I assume this is actual rank and not skill level? So there should be a few chunnin with Jonin skill level who don't actually are Jonin ? Or are they automatically special Jonin?
Good questions.

The (very) approximate numbers quoted above are pretty much common knowledge around town and can be put together without too much effort. Anything more specific (like the questions you ask above) you would need to research.
 
Do you want to lose out on 10 XP? D:

Working on it! (Not losing 10 xp, that is.) But cost of living depends on a bunch of things I shouldn't unilaterally decide. My focus in micro/game theory (neither of which are macro) doesn't help either.

Also, "cost of living" is a function of the standard of living, so it would be misleading to give a single number: I wouldn't be suprised if Ino's cost of living was an order of magnitude higher than Kenta's.
 
I don't recall that we've shown any Leaf prices thus far

Books.

You have purchased the following books:
  • Working the Hundred Woods of the Fire Country
  • Why Did It Fall Down Again?!: A Handbook of Architectural Do's and Don'ts
  • Three Akimichi Lore cookbooks (Inoue-sensei didn't have the heart to say no)​
  • Common Medicinal Plants and Their Uses
  • Assorted manga volumes​
  • Matsumoto's Modern Mathematics
  • Three different Konaya and Tamamono books​
  • The Merchant's Gazetteer, which among other things lists the best and worst countries to do business in this year (and why)​
  • Yumehara's History of the Elemental Nations

You have spent 両60,000.​

We know what Books cost.
 
Note that we're pulling these numbers out of our ears at this point -- I don't recall that we've shown any Leaf prices thus far but if we have then we might need to modify the above-mentioned rate for D-ranks if it doesn't jibe.
You have shown prices for goods in the Land of Iron, as well as rates for jobs in that area (for civilians, mind you):
Well I can't actually read white text because of my background settings, but all the same:

1000 sheets of seal-quality paper: 10,000
1gal chakra ink: 2,000
1gal honey: 1,000
10lb good tea: 4,000
Ingredients for one loaf fresh-baked bread with raisins: 30
1 copper kettle: 150
Available work : pay per hour : estimated limits : misc costs
Available Work Pay rate Maximum Use Misc Costs
Body Guards (no recommendation) ~200 ryo/hour/person 5-15 hours/day? Physically Dangerous
Body Guards (recommendation) 800 ryo/hour/person 5-15 hours/day? Physically Dangerous, need recommendation
Betting (not at casino) 100-500 ryo/game/person 4 places a night? Requires some starting money
Betting (at a casino) 1000-5000 ryo/game/person Unknown Deal with security, need covers, high risk of angry Yak
Deal with Yakuza Unknown Unknown Forced into unknown job, need good approach
Misc Jobs (bouncers, messengers,
supply runs)
<200 ryo/hour High Takes time
Steal Chocolate 15,000 ryo/job 1 Brings down the heat on us - may hurt future ties with
Yak or government.
Pit fighting 1000 ryo/fight? Low Dangerous (henge break), likely to make Yak angry
 
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