I want to ask Orochimaru about his plans for the Rift after we win. At the very least, I want to hear him confirm that they're compatible with our plans to rescue Jiraiya and Akane. "Uncertainty about shared goals precludes cooperation" indeed.
  • I tentatively want to read him in on Jiraiya still being alive - for a certain value of alive, anyway. Just getting to see his reaction would be useful. I'd rather do that with Mari around.
  • I'd also like to be straight with him: our reluctance to be around him is because we're afraid he's going to kill us to take uncontested control of the Rift and to be the sole runesmith in the world. I expect his reaction to range between 'this is a sensible concern; here's why it would be stupid for me to do this' and 'you fool; obviously it would be stupid for me to do this'. Anything in that range is still going to be useful information.
  • Frankly, I'd also like to ask him why he calls us nephew. If he pushes back, we can be clear that it's an unknown, it seems out of character, and that trusting him enough to accept a bioseal or even spend time around him while he has strong incentives to see us dead requires a better model of his thinking. I expect him to say something like 'I see potential in you' and 'Jiraiya, buffoon that he was, spoke highly of your creativity even if it was limited by your tremendous naivety'.
While these are great question, I'd rather not ask them.
Any answer will bleed at least a tiny bit of info, but it will also make Oro consider our questions, which might not be good.

So I kinda have a "shush you'll break it" reaction to asking Oro relationship questions about while calls us Nephew. He'll decide that doing so is inviting more annoying questions from us and stop.

I do kinda want to make the argument that given Hazou's collaborative goals, being "bound by our self-image" is actually adaptive, because it makes it easier to trust and collaborate with us.

We should figure out how much substrate we need and confirm Orochimaru has it available.
How many RER2.0 do we want?
4 sets of 5 is 20x625 = 12500 units
If each set of rift movers totals 50 more units(wild guess), we need one every 5 miles for 800 miles, and a 25% safety margin = 10000 units.

Add in a 500 unit fund for Force Domes, Iron Earths, Ninja Radars, and other misc usage, and we're looking at 23,000 units.

Oro better get back to the rock mines.

We could cut usage down to ~10,000 units with only two stacks of RER2.0, and just hiding the rift somewhere in Tea or the edge of Fire. Still more than the "few thousand" Oro has produced.
 
Chakra chameleon, if you please, and a set of custom shuriken seals as used by Tenten."

"Sorry, didn't quite catch that."

"I said I wanted a"—Kei blinked—"chakra ostrich

"That makes sense. We say the same thing about chakra chameleons. If one lets you see it, it's because it will no longer make a difference."

"I didn't realise they had chakra scorpions in Water," Ino said. "So what did the last one do wrong?"
Apparently chakra chameleons have memetic defences that make people trying to talk about them discuss a different animal instead.
Yes. Yes they do. It's that, or they may be an infohazard (infecting the medium itself) or a general cognitohazard (perceiving them, or in this case their name, triggers the anomalous effects).
 
I don't know if anyone has asked, but if we happen to be say bleeding when we activate Shadow Clone Jutsu, are the Shadow Clones spawned also bleeding?
 
I do kinda want to make the argument that given Hazou's collaborative goals, being "bound by our self-image" is actually adaptive, because it makes it easier to trust and collaborate with us.
Could make an explicit metaphorical comparison to Oro's personal bioseals, since those came up with the shadow clone stuff: maintenance requirements and combinatorial restrictions are always going to be a concern, but some tools or defenses are well worth the price... and it isn't as rigidly-defined a price as most people assume, anyway.
 
[X] Action Plan: Ok
Wordcount: <299
Duration: <12 hours.
  • Let's do this with Leaf
    • If Tsunade suspects Akatsuki are in Leaf, Leave Naruto behind as cover.
      • Benching Naruto in exchange for benching Konan and Itachi/Kisame is a great deal.
    • Oro, Uplift, Tsunade, possibly Naruto, Leaf summoners and a bunch of chakra donors assault the rift.
    • Is it worth slowing down to bioseal Hazou if we're teaming up with Leaf?
      • How long would the bioseals+recovery take? would Hazou be able to research at full pace during this time?
      • Is summoning Cannai worth the delays if we have the rest of Leaf's firepower?
      • Would SC bypass Hidan's blood sense?
    • The Rift-opening sequence that Sasori stole requires Jinchuriki-level reserves to use.
      • So Kisame is probably at the rift site, leaving Itachi and Konan in Leaf
    • FYI, We'll need a LOT of substrate.
      • 4 stacks of 5 RER2.0 takes 12500 units alone.
    • BTW, spacetime effects on 7th path are what's causing the great seal to degrade.
  • Cannai
    • In the morning, attempt to Summon Cannai
    • Ask him if there are other powerful Dogs he thinks might agree to fight in the Riftwar.
      • Kakashi's personal combat summon perhaps? She fought against the Dragons.
      • Also helpful:
        • A troop of jounin-jevel dogs with low CR relative to their combat skills
        • Dogs with powerful mentally damaging attacks (for Itachi's SC)
        • Dogs with strong single-target lockdown effects(to incapacitate Hidan)
      • Would Cannai be willing to approach such dogs on our behalf, or direct us to meet them?
  • Noburi
    • Can you summon a sage to examine the Chakra Capacitor?
      • We need to know if it's safe for you to drain.

As always, feedback, ideas, and wordsmithing are all welcome.
We've got a spare wordcount right now, so hit me up.
 
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That was a really fun chapter. I so love Orochimaru being prosocial and cooperative and treating us as a peer. Now if only we could get him to do that when there isn't an existential threat on the horizon ...

"My suggested attack plan was roughly this," Hazō said. "Deploy a Force Dome and Iron Earth rune to trap them in an enclosed area, then open with a barrage of Remote Explosives on the center of their base. Deploy an Air Leadener and Icarus rune to slow them down and keep them on the ground, then fire on the survivors with additional Remote Explosives from a skytower, locating them via telescope and Ninja Radar. Finally, once the explosives are expended, mop them up with our shadow clones and Boss summons.
Um. @eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien , you've previously stated that Air Leadener and Icarus have opposite effects and shouldn't be overlapped.
In-universe, this rune is similar to an inverted Icarus Rune: this rune forcibly increases air's "hardness", while the Icarus rune prevents this effect from happening. Hazō is not certain what would happen if an Air-Leadening rune and an Icarus rune overlapped their areas-of-effect. He does not want to find out because he thinks the answer could be… exciting.
Is that no longer the case?

Orochimaru frowned. "I have had neither time nor chakra to investigate runecrafting as deeply as I would like, as I have spent the better part of the last year focusing fully on the rift runes. Prior to that, I made attempts shortly after you finished teaching me, but those were amateurish at best. They are too niche and limited to be useful in combat."
"The transplanted coils will not regenerate chakra. I will teach you a meditation that will let you fill the transplanted coils from your own reserves. Without adaptation to your chakra system, there will be inefficiencies in chakra storage. I do not know how long the surgery will take, given the Iron Nerve's complexities, and you may need recovery time, so this should happen as quickly as possible. The transplanted coils should last a while without maintenance, but will eventually necrotize. If the Iron Nerve proves simple to work around, the transplant will be relatively isolated and an ordinary surgeon will be able to remove it. If you wish to keep the transplanted coils, I will perform the maintenance required, which will likely take half an hour every month, no less frequently than every two months. I will consider myself fully compensated for this service, as I will collect data on the Iron Nerve's operation in the process."
Ok, so together these basically confirm that Oro does not generate >2000 CP per day, he can just store that much. This explains why he found buying chakra from Noburi so useful.


I wish we hadn't lied to Oro, either about telling our team about runes or about Noburi overcharge. I'm worried that transplanted coils might react badly to the latter, and I don't think he'd be that annoyed by the former.
 
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That was a really fun chapter. I so love Orochimaru being prosocial and cooperative and treating us as a peer. Now if only we could get him to do that when there isn't an existential threat on the horizon ...
Or just get him to engage with the longstanding setting-background existential threats long enough for cooperation to become habitual. I mean, how far back was Oro's decision to deliberately suppress his own compassion?
you've previously stated that Air Leadener and Icarus have opposite effects and shouldn't be overlapped.

Is that no longer the case?
Could be Oro thinks "something exciting" happening to a lenticular volume of air all around Akatsuki's fortress would be a desirable outcome. How do we talk him out of it, without spilling the forbidden lore of cryo-hurricane physics?
 
...accept the chakra bioseal
And the blood switch as well I assume?
...ask if he has any assets willing to teach us biosealing, at some point in the future.
This seems like an impertinent diversion.
Offer RRBs and Force Blades to allies so the lack of skywalkers aren't to their complete detriment. Equip Summons with Force Blade vests.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Icarus Rune also disable Force Blades?
Surprised he wasn't multithreading SC research like we do, What's up with that? Is his biosealing that important?
His method of extending chakra coils involves grafting coils that don't passively regenerate. We know that that his capacity is massive but I assume that his regeneration is not as monstrous. And he doesn't have the services of a Wakahisa. Apparently those are controlled by Akatsuki now.
 
His method of extending chakra coils involves grafting coils that don't passively regenerate. We know that that his capacity is massive but I assume that his regeneration is not as monstrous. And he doesn't have the services of a Wakahisa. Apparently those are controlled by Akatsuki now.
Right, but he should totally have the CR for a clone or two, and it looked like BoC was pretty chakra-efficient.

I guess BoC just has costs similar to ES that makes multithreading prohibitive?
 
Occurs to me Noburi's a world-class expert in chakra coil expansion and repair at this point, even if he doesn't know biosealing specifically. Could the extra-capacity graft be optimized for mednin ease-of-access to some useful effect? Omitting longer-term homeostasis mechanisms so there's less direct strain on the body, and routine maintenance is simpler, but it needs that maintenance twice a week, for example. Nobs would probably be a lot more willing to believe there wasn't a killswitch hidden in there anywhere if he could see under the hood and work on it himself.
 
That went amazingly.

I love Orochimaru, he's truly the new Ami (constantly making me oscillate between kill/indoctrinate).

Also, if we sleep with either Kei will kill us!

That Orochimaru is willing to do the Bioseal for no extra cost because it would let him study our bloodline should not be overlooked. He values that EXTREMELY highly, and we should likely be wary of that. Note that he committed to a half hour of his once a month at no extra cost. Consider how much we have spent in the past to get non-recurring similar portions of his time.

For my part, I dont particularly want to see Orochimaru empowered more than we can avoid, and that means if he wants something this badly, it would likely power him up a lot. If that argument does not particularly sway you though, it also likely means we could probably get more from him at this cost.

His clear knowledge of Iron Nerve capacity confirms that he already has a strong Kurosawa sample, so I doubt he'd assign so much value to the chance to study Iron Nerve. What other reason could be equaling the scale?
 
Tsunade's presence enables RER barrages. Noburi would need to be left in Leaf, which will require coordination, but we favour leaving Naruto in Leaf - he's a liability with Itachi present and his death at the Rift site would be a disaster.
Noburi being in Leaf would be bad, since it would mean we couldn't refill Tsunade's shadow clones, which defeats most of the point of bringing her.

Instead of the anti-blood-tracking bioseal, why not just use Ninja Radar to outrange Hidan's senses and unsummon if he approaches?
Ninja Radar only has a 1km range, while Hidan's blood sense allegedly has a range of several miles.

Locate Konan&Kisame in Leaf with Ninja Radar, kill them, then Rush the rift with all Uplift, Oro, Tsunade, Naruto, every leaf summoner, and half of Leaf as backup/chakra.
I'm not a fan of this, for a few reasons.
  • I'm not at all confident that we can successfully kill Konan or Kisame in Leaf without massive collateral damage, and honestly I'm not that confident we can do it at all. It seems likely that this might wreck Leaf and tip our hand without actually killing either Konan or Kisame.
  • What we know about Konan and Kisame makes them sounds like probably the two most sane Akatsuki members. I'd quite like it if we could get out of this situation with them both still alive.
    • Kisame is extremely useful for Dragonwar and in general a very potent Seventh Path asset if we can get him even vaguely onside, and Konan ... I'd really rather never have to fight Konan, not to mention that she's a Kage so it would be geopolitically nice for her not to die.
  • Konan doesn't actually have a physical body, so it seems unlikely that Ninja Radar would work to locate her.

Some of our best runes, like the Ninja Radar and Force Dome, last for a full month.
Force Domes are actually only two weeks, and we can switch them off if we need to.
Runic Force Domes cannot be toggled on and off, but can be turned off at any point (at which point the rune burns out). The rune lasts for 2 weeks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Icarus Rune also disable Force Blades?
Not that we know of. It disables hardered air constructs, not force constructs.
Hazō completes the Icarus Rune! Mechanics: This rune prevents the formation of Air Domes (including skywalkers) in a wide radius. Hazō suspects it may inhibit other forms of hardened-air-chakra-constructs (such as the tendrils in the skywalker sealing failure, certain Wind ninjutsu such as Whirlwind Barrier, etc).
 
What we know about Konan and Kisame makes them sounds like probably the two most sane Akatsuki members. I'd quite like it if we could get out of this situation with them both still alive.
Yeah, if we've got the rift secured, the rest of Akatsuki (especially Hidan and Deidara) out of the picture, and we're pitching something broadly compatible with Pain's ideals... I could certainly see K&K holding Leaf hostage as a negotiating tactic to secure their position in that new world order, but coming to some mutually tolerable agreement (witnessed by various summon clan bosses) seems more likely than everything getting burned down out of spite.
 
(witnessed by various summon clan bosses)
Okay so I know clan bosses are super big on keeping promises and whatever, but why do we think they'd care?

Like from the human end, why should a non-summoner care about what enemy summons think? And even a summoner could make an argument to their own boss, who they have a relationship with, that they were forced to make that oath under threat and so should be considered non-binding. Hazo the oath breaker still has a great relationship with his own summons, for example.

And from the summons side... yeah, they're big on oaths, but what does it matter to them if a human breaks a promise to a human on a different planet? Either they get summoned to kill an enemy, or they don't and it literally changes nothing. I guess they can spread the word on the 7th path that so-and-so is an oath breaker, but then see my previous paragraph.

The best outcome I can see from this is somebody who is not a summoner getting rejected by some future summoning clan, and like... that's fine, I guess, but doesn't really register on the level we're acting at right now in terms of world politics.

Like, making sure the current generation of Hagoromo can't form a summon contract even if they got their hands on a scroll would be the kind of petty clan politics I could see between feuding clans in leaf, not something to force Akatsuki to uphold their own promises with world domination in the balance.
 
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(all underlines added)

"We are presently one day away from Leaf," Orochimaru said. "With effort, Leaf is three days from O'uzu. Ideally, we attack in four days. As to which members are on-site, I sent Endō to observe with a telescope from a vast distance two weeks ago. Not only was she unable to identify any individuals, any recovered information could have changed by now. We must prepare for every option. In the best case, it is a weaker pair of their members, perhaps Hidan and Deidara. In the worst case, they have already opened the rift and are defending it with their full force.

If our best opportunity is in 4 days I doubt we will have enough time to not only undergo 2 major surgeries but also to recover adequately enough to be ready to fight and kill S-rankers. Anything that could potentially interfere with our ability to infuse Runes is too much of a risk at this point IMO. We can't have everything and Oro cannot make accurate medical calls when Hazou withholds relevant potential complications like Noburi's ability to overcharge us which we rely heavily upon in our plan making. For all we know the new coils will burst as soon as we try to overfill for the first time.

"If I were them…" Orochimaru trailed off. "Assuming the rift isn't open, but Sasori has reported that completion is near, I would assign either Konan or Itachi to watch over Leaf – using either paper ninjutsu or genjutsu to infiltrate deep into otherwise secret areas. As for their pair… Sasori is occupied, Hidan is useless, and Deidara's flight does not enhance either Konan or Itachi, so they will take Kisame. They could assign four at the rift, as the next international meeting is a year away, and Konan has no doubt built an adequate diplomatic cadre in Rain to free her time for more important matters.

"Adequate" is not necessarily the same as "robust". If we can cause an international incident that is both large enough and dire enough to require AMITY's overlords to intervene with an emergency session we could potentially avoid fighting some members of Akatsuki at the Rift site. The incident could not be anything that could be misconstrued as an attack on an AMITY member polity, so instead we should systematically EM nuke the ocean.

By disrupting shipping lanes to such a degree AMITY's member nations will demand that Akatsuki convene an AMITY meeting to then lead and/or intervene to solve the humanitarian crisis. Of course, to obfuscate our involvement we would have to stage our EM nukes in such a way that their weather phenomenons look like a highly unusual weather pattern originating from an unexplored corner of the ocean.

We'll need our team's feedback, especially Kei's, on whether this weather based distraction could work against Akatsuki but I believe it is worth bringing to our team's attention. Of course, we should not mention the existence of EM to Oro if we can manage to do so (instead we should tell him we are junior Illuminati members learning how to control the weather).

Orochimaru gazed upwards for a second. "I have a number of subjects at this laboratory that are suitable for draining, yes. I would use one for your transplant. The subjects are not prepared for transport, and moving them across the continent seems logistically challenging, even though they number only a dozen. I have never before needed to transport so many subjects swiftly over vast distances including an ocean… but with a Wakahisa, it would be doable. At a guess, it would take two weeks – uncomfortably long – and of course, this would still be a small fraction of the chakra available with Leaf."

If Oro thinks two weeks is pushing our luck I would be much more comfortable with any plan(s) that call(s) for the attack on the Rift to happen by the end of this (in game) week.

"Consequently, here is my model of the world at present. Akatsuki will have used their position as lords of the current international regime to establish control over chakra redistribution bloodlines, preventing Leaf from executing an attack by recruiting a hapless Wakahisa and pressing them into service. Additionally, Akatsuki will be monitoring Leaf as close as possible without grossly violating Leaf's sovereignty, so that if any sign of either of our returns is noticed, Akatsuki will immediately prepare for an attack or for retaliation.

I am curious how Akatsuki are enforcing this if all of their other members are (assumed to be) accounted for handling the Rift and AMITY (even with the next scheduled meeting being a year away). If Akatsuki's control is anything remotely similar to how they treated Leaf after Asuma's murder we might be able to convince some Wakahisa to assist us by supplying us with chakra for the Rift fight. If Noburi is the battery equivalent of a special jonin Wakahisa with his current chakra reserves we could have Kei run the estimated numbers to see how many Wakahisa's we'd need to make such a detour and its time commitments worthwhile. We can even ask her and the rest of our team their thoughts on Oro (and maybe Endo too?) assisting us in helping the Wakahisa if it would make the trip even faster. If none of the 6 S-rankers are there I am confident in Snuncle's ability to blitz through whatever is keeping the Wakahisa "controlled".

We would not tell them why we want the chakra other than we plan on fighting their oppressors (or that the chakra would be payment for services rendered to oust the Akatsuki mooks giving them trouble and/or promises made that would be fulfilled long after J-Dad is back and ready to handle international obligations) and to meet us at a certain location close enough to not let the over-chakra-capacity burn us too much before the fight yet close enough that our techniques will be mostly still running by the time we arrive at the Rift site.

As a stretch goal we could try to recruit the new Mizukage to the rift fight as another jinchuuriki would be a welcome addition to our raiding force, but we'd have to explain the merits of the Rift and expand the OPSEC circle of people who know about Necromancy so eh, probably not. Maybe we could throw it to Kei as an option to see if she or anyone else on the team shoots it down hard.

Furthermore, this would be necessary reconnaissance to see if, instead of forcibly subjugating them, the Wakahisa have been bribed by the Akatsuki to give Akatsuki preferential access to chakra recharging. If the Rift is being defended not only by S-rankers but S-rankers sipping chakra juice for who knows how long we will need to factor that into our attack plans. WOOSH-like Itachi or even worse, all of them with extra shadow clones, would absolutely necessitate revising our plan of attack.

"My instinctive reaction is that I would rather fight a prepared and assembled Akatsuki with Tsunade at my side than fight alone against a subset, but that may be irrational. More importantly, attacking alone isn't resilient to the possibility that they may have all six at the rift site, whereas if we work with Leaf, we would at least retain surprise in that situation. On margin I would prefer to involve Leaf. However, my information is incomplete regarding your team's capabilities and the practical performance of these runes, which I assume you've tested extensively. What would you have us do, and why would you have us do it?"

Honestly, it is time for us to go back to our team and talk about our options while Oro finishes digesting our research notes. Both he and Hazou need to catch up on what the other has been doing and Oro himself noted that haste will only bring ruin down upon us all without sufficient prep for such a fight.
 
In reverse order:
Honestly, it is time for us to go back to our team and talk about our options while Oro finishes digesting our research notes. Both he and Hazou need to catch up on what the other has been doing and Oro himself noted that haste will only bring ruin down upon us all without sufficient prep for such a fight.
I will actually scream if we do that.
(all underlines added)



If our best opportunity is in 4 days I doubt we will have enough time to not only undergo 2 major surgeries but also to recover adequately enough to be ready to fight and kill S-rankers. Anything that could potentially interfere with our ability to infuse Runes is too much of a risk at this point IMO. We can't have everything and Oro cannot make accurate medical calls when Hazou withholds relevant potential complications like Noburi's ability to overcharge us which we rely heavily upon in our plan making. For all we know the new coils will burst as soon as we try to overfill for the first time.
I think it's highly unlikely that Oro would offer to do the surgeries if that was likely. So I don't really consider that a concern.
 
If we're involving Leaf, do we need to be present at the battle at all? Oro can deploy our RER's so the only thing we're adding is Cannai; I'm not sure the marginal benefit is worth the marginal cost. It takes us from ~9 s-rankers to ~10, but it also means that Hazou will be on-site and therefore need protecting which takes some amount of an s-ranker's capacity.

And it only really adds an S-ranker if we have unlimited chakra. If we're chakra limited (which seems likely) then we end up having to pick where we're spending our chakra, and the marginal benefit is just how much better is Cannai than the alternative S-ranker we'd take ?

In rough order of strength/how certain I am that they're S-rank. Question marks by the ones I don't know that we'll get. There's 7-11 which I'm calling ~9.
  • Tsunade
  • Oro
  • Naruto(?)
  • Manda
  • Gamabunta
  • Slug Boss
  • Turtle King/other turtle S-rankers (?)
  • Conjura (?)
  • Enma (?)
    • If Leaf has trained a monkey summoner over these past 6 months which they absolutely should have, I would be pretty surprised if he wouldn't fight.
  • Toad Sages
  • Tsunade Clones
It's not clear to me that that's worth the cost of:
  • Subjecting ourselves to surgery from Oro, especially since he now sees us as a peer
  • Putting all our "runemaster rift mover" eggs into one basket battle
 
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If we're involving Leaf, do we need to be present at the battle at all? Oro can deploy our RER's so the only thing we're adding is Cannai; I'm not sure the marginal benefit is worth the marginal cost. It takes us from ~9 s-rankers to ~10, but it also means that Hazou will be on-site and therefore need protecting which takes some amount of an s-ranker's capacity.
There's no distance limit between Summoner to Summon, so Hazou contributes by setting up runes, Summoning Cannai, and spending the next few hours running the fuck away.
 
Gluing the pieces back together is comparatively quick, rebuilding the chakra channels is not.
Gratitude. Feels like runes need to be made directionally, like seal strokes - not worked on in any order - or we could make them in not quite connected segments where we planned to cut, then connect them later. Or rebuilding takes as long as making a rune from scratch because it is very hard. Maybe there is still a last time saving option by making and storing the first hundred kilograms of a blank, no cutting, before continuing on site. This would save the most time for 125 unit blanks. An we would save on ES start up + wind down times if we could use the same start up for more than one rune.

Do we ask Orochimaru if he knows a toad or has a snake that can use space-time ninjutsu to swallow bigger rune blanks, bring them to our path? Lets us front load crafting time. Costs big chakra?

How many runes can we craft in 4 days. Or it is less with travel time? Are we substrate, chakra or time limited?

How to get in contact with Leaf? Need to be sure Hidan is not in the city. Orochimaru SC digs us under the city. We reverse summon to craft a ninja radar rune to minimize exposure, return to infuse it. Use it to locate Kisame and Konan or other large chakra sources in the city. Wait until Kisame reverse summons to hit Konan with RERs before trapping his return point or track chakra locations to secretly contact Naruto and Tsunade first? Give the city force dome and iron earth runes. Leave to the rift.
 
If we're involving Leaf, do we need to be present at the battle at all? Oro can deploy our RER's so the only thing we're adding is Cannai; I'm not sure the marginal benefit is worth the marginal cost. It takes us from ~9 s-rankers to ~10, but it also means that Hazou will be on-site and therefore need protecting which takes some amount of an s-ranker's capacity
Nah Oro can't do this, Hazou needs to be there to infuse them.
 
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