Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Left-Hand Mutant · Dec 8, 2024

eaglejarl said:
That was the CR38 attempt.

How long until Hazou's overdraw moderate is healed?

Dictator4Hire · Dec 8, 2024

Paperclipped said:
Having Orochimaru treat Hazō like a peer (instead of like a fascinating future vivisection) was enjoyable enough.

I'd like to take one moment to reflect on the fact that we, the hivemind, transformed a disposable genin from Mist into a recognized research peer of Orochi-fucking-maru. Regardless of what goes down with the Rift that is an accomplishment worth celebrating.

Well done hivemind.

Inferno Vulpix · Dec 8, 2024

Dictator4Hire said:
I'd like to take one moment to reflect on the fact that we, the hivemind, transformed a disposable genin from Mist into a recognized research peer of Orochi-fucking-maru. Regardless of what goes down with the Rift that is an accomplishment worth celebrating.

Well done hivemind.

It is really, really satisfying, yeah. Especially after the last time we talked to Oro about runes and admitted we hadn't made any new ones. We walked into this meeting with sheafs of paper in hand, and when he looked at the specs he had only positive things to say about them. Not just our character progression overall, this validates our research choices during this research arc. Even if we could've squeezed more optimality out of them, our real results impressed a Sannin.

roobee · Dec 8, 2024

we should ask oro why he was willing to attack akatsuki without hazou's help when the risks of losing are severe. what insider knowledge does he have of akatsuki/pain?
and the risks of letting Akatsuki resurrect pain are uncertain. whether this is a fully general afterlife rift instead of something similarly weird, whether pain can be found before he dissolves, whether pain will do something like the moon plan again now that the time window has passed or just maintain AMITY. if pain just does a normal dictatorship oro could hide in the woods as missing-nin instead of dying in an assault. pain said oro was the best of akatsuki and mused on what could have happened if oro had worked with them. how aligned was pain?

DanZapman · Dec 8, 2024

_The_Bomb · Dec 8, 2024

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped

Had Hazō!Prime been at this meeting instead of a clone, would he have observed any of the seals in Orochimaru's OPSEC array enough to make an Iron Nerve imprint?

Paperclipped said:
Endō took the seals and started to arrange them silently on the ground around them. She didn't look at Hazō or Mari again.

Paperclipped said:
Orochimaru watched her departure for half a second before busying himself rearranging the privacy seals to make that opalescent dome snap into existence around the runemasters.

Paperclipped said:
Several minutes of quiet copying and note-taking later, the shadow clones started to pass notes to their creator. Prime took the notes and gave the clones seals instead, which they used to form a second opalescent dome around their stone table, cutting Hazō and Orochimaru Prime out.

Kiba · Dec 8, 2024

Orochimaru still believe that our area effect runes won't be enough.

MarsIronPI · Dec 8, 2024

Inferno Vulpix said:
The jutsu that must not be named doesn't exist, but could we hack together a sufficiently-convincing visual replica of Naruto through biosealing and/or weird jutsu? If we could pull Naruto out of Leaf while "proving" to Konan that he's still there, that would be ideal.

Time for Army of One to shine, baby!

Cariyaga · Dec 8, 2024

DanZapman said:

God tier meme

eaglejarl · Dec 8, 2024

Kyreneryk said:
What happens if the rune is activated when there isn't a rift scar at its exact centre? Does it just not work, or will it cause a runic failure? (I'm hoping Hazō wouldn't make a rune that was that prone to failing, but it seems worth making sure.)

The rune burns out harmlessly.

Sir Stompy said:
Now that Hazou is out of the apprenticeship phase of learning mednin, can he determine if he can understand Noburi's jargon about the chakra water well enough to research a rune replicating the effect (with Noburi's help) without a prep day?

Would spending another prep day (and FP) be enough to determine this?

If not, does Hazou have a feeling about what level of mednin is necessary to understand Noburi's jargon? Would spending a prep day on the rune determine that?

At Hazou's current level, he can't casually follow what Noburi's saying when he gets into the intricacies of chakra networks, but at least Noburi can try to explain things to him. Raising Hazou's level would help, but you won't get a definitive answer of "can they meaningfully collaborate" until you try it in-character.

Sir Stompy said:
So if you have CR 32 (AB 4) and 4 copies of [ACE], can you begin the meditation for a fifth copy while your CR is still 32? With the intention that your CR will be 40+ by the end of the year. At that time you pay the XP cost for the Stunt and you can benefit from it.

Additionally, if you can do that, can you keep meditating each day, so that even if you don't have CR 40+ by the end of the year, when you eventually do, you have a year of meditation "banked" and you can then immediately buy the next copy of the stunt?

Both of these work.

Kyreneryk said:
@eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien , does Hazō know how fast, and/or how chakra-efficiently, Bones of Creation can make substrate? It's not specified in the jutsu doc - the casting cost is, as is the additional sustain cost to make substrate, but not how fast the technique can convert how much material. (In particular, is the fixed thing "time for 1 unit of substrate" or "time to convert all affected material to substrate"? If it's the latter, that would mean the technique becomes massively more efficient at higher levels.)

HDK.

Sir Stompy said:
Does Hazou think Army of One would unstagnate his Sealing at its current level? We made an infusion on that back before getting DoB

HDK.

DanZapman said:
You misunderstand. EJ explicitly addressed it earlier- the REs not being designed to work with MARS is the only issue barring egregious length of MARS chains.

Correction: we might get stroppy about egregious MARS chains in any case, where 'stroppy' means that we would stop simply assuming they work as intended with no significant delay.

Kyreneryk said:
[The rift-opener rune] doesn't sound like the kind of thing someone could walk through. If we make the bigger versions, will the gaps be big enough for a person to get through them (or indeed are they already in this version)? Or would we need to research a different version that had one or more person-traversable holes?

You'd need to squeeze at the smallest size (the one created by a 5 substrate-points rune), but runes made with more substrate can be entered with no problem. Reminder that the diameter of the rift opening depends on the amount of substrate used:

5 points of substrate: 1 meter opening, closes after 6 hours.
25 points of substrate: 3 meter opening, closes after 1 day.
125 points of substrate: 10 meter opening, closes after 2 days.
625 points of substrate: 30 meter opening, closes after 3 days.
…and so on.

Sir Stompy said:
In the optimal scenario we can get barrage fire from RERs without adding Landmine (primed) functionality to the rune, is that something we can do? Or is a primed rune required for effective barrage fire from a Remote Explosive variant?
In this scenario, rather than using a MARS to activate the barrage, we'd signal our SCs (perhaps by popping a clone?) and have them all activate their RERs at the same time. Does the vanilla design of RER allow for barrage fire in those circumstances?

A primed rune is not required for effective barrage fire. It would make timing the RER to align with other actions easier, since the delay on the rune is non-trivial.

faflec · Dec 8, 2024

Inferno Vulpix said:
The biggest snag, it seems, will be getting Naruto out of the village without immediately alerting the Akatsuki. Here's some scattershot ideas:

Naruto feigns going on a different mission somewhere else, trying to send out costly enough signals to convince Konan that it's legit. Then tank the costs and loop back around to O'Uzu.

Leave Naruto behind to convince Konan that we aren't making this play, but have Tsunade instead come with a bunch of Leaf ninja in secret.

The jutsu that must not be named doesn't exist, but could we hack together a sufficiently-convincing visual replica of Naruto through biosealing and/or weird jutsu? If we could pull Naruto out of Leaf while "proving" to Konan that he's still there, that would be ideal.

A stupid idea that probably won't work: We convince Conjura to spacetime teleport Naruto and co. to the rift site and back, such that any watchers physically cannot move in time and possibly won't even realize that they left.

Shrooms · Dec 8, 2024

If Konan is at Leaf let's just blow up rain to get her attention :^)

faflec · Dec 8, 2024

Shrooms said:
If Konan is at Leaf let's just blow up rain to get her attention :^)

[X] EM Nuke Rune Leaf to get Konan's attention

eaglejarl · Dec 8, 2024

Official thing, signed off:

coldcutconvict said:
Could you go into more detail? What about cut blanks takes the most time to repair?

Gluing the pieces back together is comparatively quick, rebuilding the chakra channels is not.

Left-Hand Mutant said:
How long until Hazou's overdraw moderate is healed?

It heals tomorrow.

Moving to ponwog:

_The_Bomb said:
Had Hazō!Prime been at this meeting instead of a clone, would he have observed any of the seals in Orochimaru's OPSEC array enough to make an Iron Nerve imprint?

The others are (hopefully) asleep right now, but based on my understanding of the events of the chapter I would assume that yes, Hazō would have downloaded the seals that Orochimaru used. That is ponwog90.

EDIT history:

- moved the 'consequence heals tomorrow' out of ponwog and into official statement because Paperclipped is still up at 4am and popped in to confirm.

Left-Hand Mutant · Dec 8, 2024

Great chapter, thank you.

Paperclipped said:
I do not recall instructing you to waste your breath proselytising to those who proclaim lofty goals, yet refuse to pursue them efficiently lest they tarnish their precious self-image.

Good to know him opinion of us hasn't changed.

Paperclipped said:
Orochimaru turned to Hazō. "You will permit me to examine your cognitive metastructure briefly so that I may verify that you haven't been subverted by Akatsuki."

Reading this torn between "hahahah no. But why don't you tell me more about that technique" and "let him try and bounce him off resolve 63", which is clearly a worse idea, but I still want to see it.

Paperclipped said:
If I were Akatsuki, I would not give you further incentive to take the rift from them. I suspect they would instead keep any such targets alive but hidden away, while torturing or threatening to torture them until their minds were broken."

Hazō tried very hard not to think of Ino, and failed.

Yuuuuuup.
I think we did the right play by not inviting or kidnapping Ino, but I'm really not sure.

Paperclipped said:
"Of course," Orochimaru said. "You have not even heard news of Leaf in your isolation. Briefly: six months ago, Akatsuki attempted to kill me in Leaf. They fabricated an official justification, but their true purpose was to prevent me from opening the O'uzu rift. They likely know I am alive as a missing-nin. Akatsuki knows there are two things that could cause them to lose control over the O'uzu rift. First, my return to Leaf. Second, the return of your Wakahisa brother, who multiplies the power of Leaf's summoners several times over.

Hey Naruto, remember how you tried to make us keep Noburi in Leaf, and didn't want him to go missing with us?
You're fucking welcome.

This sitrep makes sense, and it was nice to see Oro do a little update on the fact that we when we say info blackout, we do it right and commit.

Paperclipped said:
"Consequently, here is my model of the world at present. Akatsuki will have used their position as lords of the current international regime to establish control over chakra redistribution bloodlines, preventing Leaf from executing an attack by recruiting a hapless Wakahisa and pressing them into service. Additionally, Akatsuki will be monitoring Leaf as close as possible without grossly violating Leaf's sovereignty, so that if any sign of either of our returns is noticed, Akatsuki will immediately prepare for an attack or for retaliation.

"Therefore, when either of us contacts Leaf, Leaf must act immediately. At that juncture, there will be no waiting even an hour, because every hour lets Akatsuki reposition, consolidate their forces, escape our assault, or find new allies among the abundant geopolitical players who would gladly humble Leaf for sheltering international criminal missing-nin. If your team or I returned alone, the other would have been locked out of participation. I could not let you return to Leaf without me.

"I obviously prefer to have Leaf's participation. Tsunade, the Fox, and Leaf's summoners will be indispensable in any attack plan, and Leaf's miscellaneous jōnin could be useful even if not used as chakra batteries. I simply did not wish you to return in a foolish, hasty manner."

Great, this is the best-possible scenario!
Take the easy win.

Paperclipped said:
"There is another reason for requiring you to see me first," Orochimaru said. "We must discuss how we intend to prevent the secret of runecrafting from disseminating beyond the two of us. I understand you have told both Tsunade and the Fox – and I presume that you have no intention to obey the Fox's orders if you are instructed to teach it to another Leaf sealmaster – but we cannot afford to be using runes in ways that are highly visible to ordinary Leaf ninja."

Hmmm, I'd thought Hazoupilot decided to spontaneously volunteer that his family knows about runes to Oro during a previous talk?

I'd rather that one-line unvoted OPSEC fuckup got retconed than having a significant chunk of this chapter rewritten, but they currently don't match up

Paperclipped said:
it is entirely possible that I am incapacitated for weeks or longer as a result of this upcoming battle, as I will be fighting personally. In that eventuality, you must be able to move the rift in my stead.

Confirmation that getting killed disables Oro for weeks or months. Evidence seemed to suggest it, but nice to hear it from him.

Paperclipped said:
Ninja-Radar is by far the most powerful, as one of our primary obstacles to killing Akatsuki members is locating them, and this does so over a far wider area than any battlefield

Interesting framing, glad he likes it.

Paperclipped said:
They found the Air Leadening and Icarus runes useful as well, as interfering with Akatsuki's movement again makes it easier to pin them in a killing net – and I assume you researched a variant of skywalkers that isn't reliant on Air Domes, using any spatially-locked seal effect such as Five Seal Barrier?

Hahaha yes, we definitely tried that, instead of just inventing a useless rune that disadvantages us in this fight.
*Takes notes*

Paperclipped said:
The Force Domes and Iron Earth runes are similarly useful at trapping them.

Yeah, but also for getting Naruto's buy-in to attack.

Paperclipped said:
The Remote Explosives are targeted at Sasori, I presume. He is an excellent defensive sealmaster, but that makes him static in a way that the Remote Explosives will counter. He excels at creating specific counters for particular capabilities, but broad-spectrum cancellation of chakra-effects is difficult for seals. Without foreknowledge of runecrafting, this may simply bypass his defenses and kill him."

Not quite our inspiration, and we're going for outright kills on Kisame and Deidara as well, but it does seem like their main contribution will be destroying Sasoris fortifications.

Paperclipped said:
What runes have you developed that should be used in a battle plan?"

Orochimaru frowned. "I have had neither time nor chakra to investigate runecrafting as deeply as I would like, as I have spent the better part of the last year focusing fully on the rift runes. Prior to that, I made attempts shortly after you finished teaching me, but those were amateurish at best. They are too niche and limited to be useful in combat."

Godamn, that feels good to hear.
Also nice to know that he isn't that skilled of a runecrafter yet.
Surprised he wasn't multithreading SC research like we do, What's up with that? Is his biosealing that important?
And he makes no mention of working on the great seal....

Paperclipped said:
"Okay," Hazō said. "Then, I should note that we don't actually have a skywalker-equivalent that would let us operate inside the Icarus Runes. I intended to turn it off once we'd finished the explosive barrage."

"Inconvenient," Orochimaru said. "The Five Seal Barrier is an unusual design, so I suppose adapting it into skywalkers could pose problems. In which case, the advantage generated by the Icarus Rune is far lower. That battle plan sounds reasonable on the whole, but I have several processes for brainstorming and reflecting, and it will take hours until they are completed. Needless to say, the final battle plan will be constructed en-route with Tsunade and the Fox present, given that they are already aware of runes' existence.

Yup, they were impractical. We totally tried super hard.

Paperclipped said:
"Your briefing indicated that you require additional chakra-conductive stone. I have prepared several thousand kilograms worth at my laboratory for your use, as I considered the odds that you would fail to train the techniques I gave you regrettably high. Given that you apparently do not want to risk your Prime body, I presume such methods as 'your clone takes storage seals to Prime' would be ruled out, given that it would expose Prime's location to me. I can instead store the stone on the Seventh Path and dispense it once we are on-site to your shadow clones shaping the runes.

Great, but we need more than a few thousand for massed RER fire. Also, point out that we'll need a surplus to make rift-movers and other runes if Oro is killed.

Paperclipped said:
"Additionally, you have noted that your Remote Explosives are too large to transport via the Seventh Path. I do not have larger storage seals for you to use. However, we will have considerable manpower available to us, including Tsunade's absurdly strong shadow clones, which will of course be summoned well in advance. We do not need to shape runes within a mile if we could instead shape the runes five miles away, then move them into position for infusion. The main difficulty will be acquiring an aerial position without Akatsuki's fliers noticing when they would expect any attack to be presaged by aerial observation. As I consider it, the more I believe that the runic assault will need to be executed from the ground, as the Icarus rune may disproportionately advantage Akatsuki's natural flight. That is something to consider."

Great thinking. Glad to solve that issue.

Paperclipped said:
"If I were them…" Orochimaru trailed off. "Assuming the rift isn't open, but Sasori has reported that completion is near, I would assign either Konan or Itachi to watch over Leaf – using either paper ninjutsu or genjutsu to infiltrate deep into otherwise secret areas. As for their pair… Sasori is occupied, Hidan is useless, and Deidara's flight does not enhance either Konan or Itachi, so they will take Kisame. They could assign four at the rift, as the next international meeting is a year away, and Konan has no doubt built an adequate diplomatic cadre in Rain to free her time for more important matters.

"For that matter, Itachi and Kisame would be on different teams, so the only viable model here is Konan and Kisame observing Leaf in secret, while Itachi, Sasori, Deidara, and Hidan guard the rift. Reflecting on this, this actually seems rather likely. Of course, I reiterate that we may be better served assuming all six are guarding the rift."

Shit. Kisame and Konan are going to be a nightmare to root out of Leaf, especially if we need to stop Kisame from unsummoning or summoning a messenger.
Actually the boss can probably feel when Kisame dies. Tricky.

Paperclipped said:
"I have pre-arranged a line of communication with Tsunade, obviously," Orochimaru said. "When I said Akatsuki were watching Leaf, did you think they stationed Jashinists on watchtowers in the rice paddies? No, we will get into contact, exfiltrate Tsunade, the Fox, and any jōnin that can be reasonably extracted without arousing too much suspicion, then race to O'uzu. If we are lucky, they will not notice our disappearance, and if not, we will at least launch our attack on a subset of their forces."

Hazō hated that he was saying it, but he had to raise the possibility. "At that rate, could it be better to attack the rift just ourselves? It doesn't take a lot to notice that Naruto is out of the village, given that he's perpetually running a dozen shadow clones across the village. If they're using Seventh Path communications, going to Leaf first would basically destroy any advantage of surprise."

"The Fox does so?" Orochimaru asked. "How inefficient. Regardless, that is an option… but it would require dealing with Itachi on our own. Frankly, without Tsunade, I do not expect we will kill him. Still, we could force him to retreat and claim the rift in the interim.

Might make more sense to leave Naruto behind, bizzarely? Just take Tsunade and a bunch of Jonin/Chunin.
We should have SC spam saturated with Tsunade+Noburi, and her SC are stronger anyways.

Paperclipped said:
"My strength is multiplied lossily," Orochimaru said. "My shadow clones cannot be biosealed."

"You still have incredible ninjutsu to fight with, like the ones you gave me."

"I will grant that my shadow clones are competent elite jōnin," Orochimaru said. "Likely superior to any of the Jashinists or Rain ninja stationed on-site. My clones will not threaten Itachi, especially as shadow clones in general cannot be effectively deployed against a genjutsu user of his level."

Interesting.

Paperclipped said:
Orochimaru didn't respond immediately. "The Wakahisa – I will accept that his expanded reserves let the boy summon Gamabunta. You, however… how do you possess the reserves to summon a clan boss?"

We're just that good.
Interesting that Oro seems to not know about Vampiric Dew overdraw. Evidence against him having kidnapped the Picatist.
Or he doesn't believe that Hazou could have CR 39, which while odd, seems perfectly plausible.

Paperclipped said:
"I… don't," Hazō said. His last summoning attempt with Noburi's help, three days ago, had been another failure. "But I was hoping that you could help me with that. I don't mean to be rude, but I suspect that you know a bioseal that expands chakra reserves. Would you be willing to apply it to me, so that I can summon Cannai?"

"Iron Nerve bloodline holders are challenging to operate on, given that the bloodline permeates the entire nervous system," Orochimaru said immediately.

"Again, Cannai has already agreed to be summoned. Another Boss summon on the battlefield could be a gamechanger," Hazō said.

"I did not refuse," Orochimaru said, turning to face the shifting, shimmering blobs on the privacy dome's wall. "I suppose you would not be willing to lose the use of the Iron Nerve in one of your limbs…"

"I would not."

"Very well," Orochimaru said after several seconds of thought, facing Hazō again. "This is not a trivial bioseal you request. Few in the world could do it."

"I'm not asking them."

"Needless to say, you would need to present your Prime body to me. When you do so, you should also memorize my rift runes and store the chakra-conductive stone yourself."

"That makes sense."

"The transplanted coils will not regenerate chakra. I will teach you a meditation that will let you fill the transplanted coils from your own reserves. Without adaptation to your chakra system, there will be inefficiencies in chakra storage. I do not know how long the surgery will take, given the Iron Nerve's complexities, and you may need recovery time, so this should happen as quickly as possible. The transplanted coils should last a while without maintenance, but will eventually necrotize. If the Iron Nerve proves simple to work around, the transplant will be relatively isolated and an ordinary surgeon will be able to remove it. If you wish to keep the transplanted coils, I will perform the maintenance required, which will likely take half an hour every month, no less frequently than every two months. I will consider myself fully compensated for this service, as I will collect data on the Iron Nerve's operation in the process."

"How much will it expand my chakra reserves?" Hazō asked.

"A static amount depending on the donor's coils," Orochimaru replied. "I have the materials to create the bioseal, but donors are limited. I could use Endō..."

Hazō shuddered. "I don't need a lot. I think I'm quite close to summoning Cannai on my own."

"You will need a lot of additional chakra," Orochimaru said. "You are a chuunin. You will not be able to summon a Clan Boss without a substantial transplant, and I do not believe you are resilient enough to accept two transplants in short succession, not without increasing the complexity of the operation manyfold."

Hazō didn't want to explain Noburi's ability to overflow his chakra coils if he could help it. "Really, I've been training my chakra reserves extensively. I don't need much."

Noooooo don't do it.
It was pretty clear that Oro's huge bioseal reserves don't increase his regen to match, but nice to confirm.

Paperclipped said:
"Very well," Orochimaru said. "Incidentally, you previously mentioned that Hidan has your blood trace. Am I correct?"

"Yes."

"So that will need to be corrected as well. Two unrelated bioseals will stress your body, so some reinforcement may be required…"

He has a relitively small radius,and we have SC and ninja-radar. nice to have, but not worth going under the knife.

Paperclipped said:
"My instinctive reaction is that I would rather fight a prepared and assembled Akatsuki with Tsunade at my side than fight alone against a subset, but that may be irrational. More importantly, attacking alone isn't resilient to the possibility that they may have all six at the rift site, whereas if we work with Leaf, we would at least retain surprise in that situation. On margin I would prefer to involve Leaf. However, my information is incomplete regarding your team's capabilities and the practical performance of these runes, which I assume you've tested extensively. What would you have us do, and why would you have us do it?"

Nice.

Try to summon Cannai at CR39, have his assistant run the substrate to a point we specify while we talk to Oro, move to team up with Leaf.

Paperclipped · Dec 8, 2024

Left-Hand Mutant said:
How long until Hazou's overdraw moderate is healed?

He should be healed once he gets a good night's rest.

Paperclipped · Dec 8, 2024

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Great chapter, thank you.

Good to know him opinion of us hasn't changed.

Reading this torn between "hahahah no. But why don't you tell me more about that technique" and "let him try and bounce him off resolve 63", which is clearly a worse idea, but I still want to see it.

Yuuuuuup.
I think we did the right play by not inviting or kidnapping Ino, but I'm really not sure.

Hey Naruto, remember how you tried to make us keep Noburi in Leaf, and didn't want him to go missing with us?
You're fucking welcome.

This sitrep makes sense, and it was nice to see Oro do a little update on the fact that we when we say info blackout, we do it right and commit.

Great, this is the best-possible scenario!
Take the easy win.

Hmmm, I'd thought Hazoupilot decided to spontaneously volunteer that his family knows about runes to Oro during a previous talk?

I'd rather that one-line unvoted OPSEC fuckup got retconed than having a significant chunk of this chapter rewritten, but they currently don't match up

Confirmation that getting killed disables Oro for weeks or months. Evidence seemed to suggest it, but nice to hear it from him.

Interesting framing, glad he likes it.

Hahaha yes, we definitely tried that, instead of just inventing a useless rune that disadvantages us in this fight.
*Takes notes*

Yeah, but also for getting Naruto's buy-in to attack.

Not quite our inspiration, and we're going for outright kills on Kisame and Deidara as well, but it does seem like their main contribution will be destroying Sasoris fortifications.

Godamn, that feels good to hear.
Also nice to know that he isn't that skilled of a runecrafter yet.
Surprised he wasn't multithreading SC research like we do, What's up with that? Is his biosealing that important?
And he makes no mention of working on the great seal....

Yup, they were impractical. We totally tried super hard.

Great, but we need more than a few thousand for massed RER fire. Also, point out that we'll need a surplus to make rift-movers and other runes if Oro is killed.

Great thinking. Glad to solve that issue.

Shit. Kisame and Konan are going to be a nightmare to root out of Leaf, especially if we need to stop Kisame from unsummoning or summoning a messenger.
Actually the boss can probably feel when Kisame dies. Tricky.

Might make more sense to leave Naruto behind, bizzarely? Just take Tsunade and a bunch of Jonin/Chunin.
We should have SC spam saturated with Tsunade+Noburi, and her SC are stronger anyways.

Interesting.

We're just that good.
Interesting that Oro seems to not know about Vampiric Dew overdraw. Evidence against him having kidnapped the Picatist.
Or he doesn't believe that Hazou could have CR 39, which while odd, seems perfectly plausible.

Noooooo don't do it.
It was pretty clear that Oro's huge bioseal reserves don't increase his regen to match, but nice to confirm.

He has a relitively small radius,and we have SC and ninja-radar. nice to have, but not worth going under the knife.

Nice.

Try to summon Cannai at CR39, have his assistant run the substrate to a point we specify while we talk to Oro, move to team up with Leaf.

Reaction posts are always nice to see. Can't respond in detail right now, but take +1 XP to a character of your choice (chosen randomly by 1d3 among the PCs if you do not pick within 24 hours) as thanks.

DanZapman · Dec 8, 2024

Left-Hand Mutant said:
Surprised he wasn't multithreading SC research like we do, What's up with that? Is his biosealing that important?

chakra income limited ig

Left-Hand Mutant · Dec 8, 2024

Paperclipped said:
Reaction posts are always nice to see. Can't respond in detail right now, but take +1 XP to a character of your choice (chosen randomly by 1d3 among the PCs if you do not pick within 24 hours) as thanks.

Hazou, please.

FaintlySorcerous · Dec 8, 2024

Disorganized thoughts:

I want to ask Orochimaru about his plans for the Rift after we win. At the very least, I want to hear him confirm that they're compatible with our plans to rescue Jiraiya and Akane. "Uncertainty about shared goals precludes cooperation" indeed.
- I tentatively want to read him in on Jiraiya still being alive - for a certain value of alive, anyway. Just getting to see his reaction would be useful. I'd rather do that with Mari around.
- I'd also like to be straight with him: our reluctance to be around him is because we're afraid he's going to kill us to take uncontested control of the Rift and to be the sole runesmith in the world. I expect his reaction to range between 'this is a sensible concern; here's why it would be stupid for me to do this' and 'you fool; obviously it would be stupid for me to do this'. Anything in that range is still going to be useful information.
- Frankly, I'd also like to ask him why he calls us nephew. If he pushes back, we can be clear that it's an unknown, it seems out of character, and that trusting him enough to accept a bioseal or even spend time around him while he has strong incentives to see us dead requires a better model of his thinking. I expect him to say something like 'I see potential in you' and 'Jiraiya, buffoon that he was, spoke highly of your creativity even if it was limited by your tremendous naivety'.
Let's say we involve Leaf. Orochimaru says that his dozen subjects would be 'a small fraction' of the chakra available in Leaf. Are we leaving Noburi in Leaf and having him fill us all up via the Seventh Path? We'd be taking the Toad Sages and 'Bunta off the table.
If we involve Leaf I think we should leave Naruto in Leaf. He's a really bad matchup for Itachi, who is basically guaranteed to be there, and he's conspicuous. Tsunade can fade with a few jonin. This also helps keep Noburi under wraps.
- I will note that I expect Conjura to refuse to fight Itachi. Their interactions in the Dragonwar suggested that they were allies.
I'd like to feel him out on how long it'd take us to recover - ballpark - and whether or not he thinks having Cannai available is actually worth the time.
I'd like to feel Orochimaru out on what he thinks is possible with respect to Summon prohibition. He's familiar with Sasori's capabilities.
We should figure out how much substrate we need and confirm Orochimaru has it available.

In terms of an actual plan of attack...I'd like to blow them away and then just hit as hard as we can. Simplicity has a lot to commend it. We lock the fuckers down, blow their fortress to smithereens, and then unleash an appreciable fraction of hell. I don't know that there's a lot more to do or say.

It would be interesting to find out what Orochimaru's plan was, what odds he gave himself, and what that picture looks like now that we're in play. Presumably he had a plan that didn't seem suicidal, and 'march on the Rift with Naruto and Tsunade after the Akatsuki have had three days to prep' seems like a gamble at best.

Spector29 · Dec 9, 2024

FaintlySorcerous said:
I want to ask Orochimaru about his plans for the Rift after we win. At the very least, I want to hear him confirm that they're compatible with our plans to rescue Jiraiya and Akane. "Uncertainty about shared goals precludes cooperation" indeed.

I tentatively want to read him in on Jiraiya still being alive - for a certain value of alive, anyway. Just getting to see his reaction would be useful. I'd rather do that with Mari around.

I'd also like to be straight with him: our reluctance to be around him is because we're afraid he's going to kill us to take uncontested control of the Rift and to be the sole runesmith in the world. I expect his reaction to range between 'this is a sensible concern; here's why it would be stupid for me to do this' and 'you fool; obviously it would be stupid for me to do this'. Anything in that range is still going to be useful information.

Frankly, I'd also like to ask him why he calls us nephew. If he pushes back, we can be clear that it's an unknown, it seems out of character, and that trusting him enough to accept a bioseal or even spend time around him while he has strong incentives to see us dead requires a better model of his thinking. I expect him to say something like 'I see potential in you' and 'Jiraiya, buffoon that he was, spoke highly of your creativity even if it was limited by your tremendous naivety'.

I like these thoughts in particular.

Emstar · Dec 9, 2024

This was a really awesome chapter to read lol

Black King · Dec 9, 2024

I find Orochimaru strangely likable for the evil amoral lord of darkness that he is. Like a fun uncle.

strange_person · Dec 9, 2024

FaintlySorcerous said:
I will note that I expect Conjura to refuse to fight Itachi. Their interactions in the Dragonwar suggested that they were allies.

Would rapidly transporting Tsunade (plus entourage, and maybe a few abstract stone sculptures) from Leaf to an arbitrary spot which happens to be within a few dozen miles of the rift fortress, in exchange for e.g. a ridiculous quantity of gold, constitute an obvious violation of that alliance? Seems like that'd be more strategically important than direct participation in the assault anyway.

FaintlySorcerous · Dec 9, 2024

I'm not going to be around reliably enough to edit this but I want to get it out into the world. As I don't regard it as a tremendously viable plan I'm not going to care overmuch about wordcount.

All of this is to say: you probably shouldn't vote for this, but if you do, don't expect edits. If you want edits, read the link in my signature and follow the instructions/requests to maximize the chance that they can be made.

[X] Action Plan: Cooperation
Word count: ???

Orochimaru.
- On reflection, we agree with you.
  - Tsunade's presence enables RER barrages. Noburi would need to be left in Leaf, which will require coordination, but we favour leaving Naruto in Leaf - he's a liability with Itachi present and his death at the Rift site would be a disaster.
- Some Bosses may not fight the Akatsuki - Conjura seemed allied with Itachi, but Ruri may lack the reserves generally. But her spacetime ninjutsu could prove crucial if she can transport us to the Rift site rapidly, and might not qualify as direct action against Itachi...
- How long will it take us to recover from taking bioseals, roughly? Is Cannai worth the time, and will we (Hazo) be close enough to the Rift site to merit a fresh blood signature?
- We also agree uncertainty about shared goals precludes cooperation.
  - Our reluctance to be near you is rooted in fear. We are the only other living runesmith and one of very few capable of using the Rift. You have reasons to prefer us dead after the Akatsuki have been swept off the table.
  - To cooperate effectively, we'd like to understand you better. To this end:
    - What's your plan for the Rift once it's in your hands?
    - Are your plans compatible with our plans to revive Jiraiya and Akane?
      - Explain why we're going after Jiraiya first: the ritual, our vision, the Toad Sage's corroboration. Include our prayer to Jashin and why Hidan believes we have Jashin's favour.
    - Why should we trust you aren't going to kill us and flee Leaf as soon as you can?
    - Why do you call us nephew?
      - Insist on a substantive answer. Kei isn't niece and Noburi isn't nephew. So, why?
      - It's anomalous behaviour and understanding it would go a long way to trusting him.
- What was his plan to take the Rift before we arrived? How likely did he believe he was to succeed? How does our arrival modify those odds?
- With respect to a plan: we marshal our forces, contain the Akatsuki as best we can, use RERs to eliminate any traps or preparations they've made, and then hit them as hard as possible.
  - The Akatsuki seem likely to have developed some anti-Summon capabilities after we seized the Arachnid scroll. You're more familiar with Nature chakra than we are - could a seal array replicate Pain's abilities? Even a pulse which destroys Summons could be massive if multiple Bosses are dispelled.
- We'll meet him in 24 hours, ready to move with a decision about bioseals. Where?
  - If the positions were reversed, what would we need to guarantee him to take one of our bioseals?
Team Uplift:
- Read them in. Yes, he might betray us. No one beyond necessity is going to be physically near Orochimaru even after Tsunade/Leaf is involved, but we need to take the Akatsuki out and the Rift back. This is our best move.

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