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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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_The_Bomb said:
@Paperclipped why don't you go ahead and just put an 80 in our Wealth category
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We're gonna need to be somewhere careful about how/where we drop 10+ tons of gold on the market. We'll devalue gold quickly, and someone will be left holding the bag.

The goodish news is that farmers have no gold, and aren't directly affected.

The bad news is that not being able to trust the value of the currancy is pretty economically damaging to the world at large, and I don't know how much of the EN's total currancy-value is currently represented by gold.

Anyway, this doesn't create goods/value, just hoodwinks it from people who don't yet know that we can print gold.
I've got it! Partner with a neutralish(kurshu?) clan to offload the gold on the Hagoromo(and hyuga?), in exchange for long-term contracts.
Make the gold payout be spread out over months, so that they don't have the chance to pass it on to the next sucker before the market crashes.
 
Sir Stompy said:
That reminds me, I forgot the most important part! Converting metric tons of gold to ryo. Will edit in.
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Sir Stompy said:
Okay, so how many ryo is this? Well at current prices, it's about $2300 per oz of gold or $75000 per kg. That would be about $2 billion for 27 metric tons.

However it's worse than that, historically gold has been worth more that that per oz. Inflation adjusted prices are about $3000 per oz in medieval Europe. That would put us at ~$2.7 billion.

Conservatively, it's 20 billion ryo at the 10-to-1 conversion factor that we've used in the past.

Assuming there's a mint fee but gold does a little better than $2,300 per oz in PPP, we can probably expect to get roughly 20 billion ryo out of this.
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faflec said:
Make sure to convert to foreign currency to avoid crashing the Leaf ryo. :p
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I don't think that matters? What we should do instead is mint new ryo with it, increase the purity a bunch, and buy up the old ryo with it. It's called currency revaluation. Cause the other countries to experience inflation. Plus we get some free copper/silver out of the bargain from their shitty coinage.
 
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Left-Hand Mutant said:
We're gonna need to be somewhere careful about how/where we drop 10+ tons of gold on the market. We'll devalue gold quickly, and someone will be left holding the bag.

The goodish news is that farmers have no gold, and aren't directly affected.

The bad news is that not being able to trust the value of the currancy is pretty economically damaging to the world at large, and I don't know how much of the EN's total currancy-value is currently represented by gold
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Well yeah, my current druthers is to have the Tower secretly mint it into ryo for a small fee and use it only to meet our liquidity needs from our current debts. No further uses.
 
Sir Stompy said:
Assuming there's a mint fee but gold does a little better than $2,300 per oz in PPP, we can probably expect to get roughly 20 billion ryo out of this
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When I ran the numbers, my best estimate of Leaf's entire gov budget was 50 to the lower end of 100 million ryo, based on the tax info we were provided. (And Leaf spends most of it paying clan heads) So yeah. We're about to sit on a pile of worthless rock if we don't find something instrumentally useful for gold. (After, of course, becoming the rich person to ever exist in Leaf, ever, by like 3 orders of magnitude)

Personally, after buying everything worth buying, I think we should become the fed again, and be the lender of last resort, set up Leaf's first real bank, make loans, etc.

We can print money (gold), it's intrinsically valuable, it can't be easily copied (yet) etc, it's easily tradable, hard to fake, etc.

We could be the printer of the entire worlds currency! Imagine that! Gold standard, baby!
 
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CitizenTen said:
When I can the numbers, my best estimate of Leaf's entire gov budget was 50 to the lower end of 100 million ryo, based on the tax info we were provided. (And Leaf spends most of it paying clan heads) So yeah. We're about to sit on a pile of worthless rock if we don't find something instrumentally useful for gold. (After, of course, becoming the rich person to ever exist in Leaf, ever, by like 3 orders of magnitude)

Personally, after buying everything worth buying, I think we should become the fed again, and be the lender of last resort, set up Leaf's first real bank, make loans, etc.

We can print money (gold), it's intrinsically valuable, it can't be easily copied (yet) etc, it's easily tradable, hard to fake, etc.

We could be the printer of the entire worlds currency! Imagine that! Gold standard, baby!
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I think it's more like 1 billion ryo. IIRC the Hokage's salary is about 200 million.

So this is quite a sum, yeah.
 
Buggy said:
Rune of Monkey-Patch
(Cooler name pending)​

Runes are cool and epic. They make giant explosions and alter reality! They're the lost art of the Sage, and only us and Vivisection Georg know what they can do! But they also can't seem to move around at all, and convincing our enemies to stand on that big red X is surprisingly difficult.

Seals are neat. They make little explosions, and we can carry a bunch. But they've been done to death by all the other sealmasters; finding something new and useful that they can do is a real challenge.

Clearly, we need to combine the two. Seals can move, runes are strong. Take the strengths, leave the weaknesses. Make a rune that makes a seal powerful.

Of all the paths we could explore, storage seals are a good start. They're intended to carry stuff for later, and we've got experience weaponizing them.

I suggest the following two runes to start out with:
  • Rune of Monkey Patch
    • To use this rune, place a filled storage seal atop it, and then activate it.
    • The storage seal's contents are lightly modified by the rune; heating is a good option, but any change that is innocuous and verifiable is acceptable.
    • The contents of the storage seal are not exposed or returned to the world, not even briefly. The storage seal functions as normal afterwards.
  • Heating Rune of Monkey Patch
    • Behaves similarly to the prior rune.
    • Strongly heats the contents of the storage seal.
    • Yield estimates (approximate, work not shown for brevity)
      • 100 kelvin heating: Explosive seal equivalent (0.5kg tnt)
      • 1000 kelvin heating: Low-yield explosive rune equivalent (~100kg tnt)
      • 10,000 kelvin heating: Surpasses explosive rune (~1 ton tnt)

Further runes could be added for, e.g. compression, sealing in compressed air a-la implosion seals, adding more content to a storage seal, luring a Out Entity into the storage seal to take a nap, etc. But this is a good start.

If anyone wants to help calculate the actual explosion created by heating 100kg of water to so-and-so degrees, I'd appreciate it. It's a nontrivial problem.
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I would like to point out that this also serves as its own way to conceal the OPSEC of this weapon. If someone is able to source a seal we've modified with the rune, all they will see is an ordinary storage seal.
 
I'm not sure how we're even supposed to handle this much wealth. Do we just... walk up to Naruto and be like "Hey we're infinitely rich, can you help us not destroy the EN's economy"?

I mean we have to go through the tower to mint Ryo anyway...


Alternatively, take most of the gold and dump it in a unmarked location of wilderness, then tell all the other Hidden Villages where it is. Free Akatsuki distraction, with a complimentary world war!
 
CitizenTen said:
We're about to sit on a pile of worthless rock if we don't find something instrumentally useful for gold.
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With this much gold, possibly, but I will note that I would find it almost astonishing if gold becomes worthless. Gold is such a universally, consistently valued substance through all of human history that completely devaluing it would be very surprising to me, even if we dump literally tons onto the market. IMO the rich will just rush to grab as much of it as possible and we'll get gold-plated mansions, with a moderate decrease in the value of gold.

Not to say that we won't get some serious economic effects from that, but still.
 
Buggy said:
I'm not sure how we're even supposed to handle this much wealth. Do we just... walk up to Naruto and be like "Hey we're infinitely rich, can you help us not destroy the EN's economy"?

I mean we have to go through the tower to mint Ryo anyway...


Alternatively, take most of the gold and dump it in a unmarked location of wilderness, then tell all the other Hidden Villages where it is. Free Akatsuki distraction, with a complimentary world war!
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We do it in small enough amounts that it's not a huge deal. Just enough money to pay Tsunade and restructure our loans ideally.
 
Sir Stompy said:
[X] Action Plan: Leavetaking
Word Count: <399
  • Sanity Check with Mari/Kei/Snow/Noburi
    • Before we agonize over this choice, what are the odds we can get the TS and Tsunade to trade off days? Or each of them could take half of Noburi's day.
      • The TS mentioned wanting some time off, and Tsunade surely has other patients to work on
    • Toad Sages
      • Pros: Taught Jiraiya, know Sage Mode, TH training/FOOMing on Seventh Path for Hazou, need to stay on good terms to remain Toad Summoner, potentially years of training
      • Cons: Can't avoid Tsunade forever
    • Tsunade
      • Pros: Immediate boost in power, lots of medical jutsu, reputation as a doctor
      • Cons: Disrespecting the Toads, leaves Hazou's training in question, might jeopardize Necromancy, only a few months long
    • On balance, Hazou prefers the Toad Sages, but the decision is Noburi's
    • If alienating one side permanently seems inevitable, could we have Naruto order Noburi to work with Tsunade for a couple months first? That way the Toad Sages would be angry at Naruto, not Noburi.
  • Ino
    • Meet with her to say goodbye, give her the official line about the research mission.
    • Promise to send her weekly letters via the Seventh Path
    • Give her a farewell bouquet, have Mari help pick it out. Cast the fertility jutsu on the flowers.
      • Themes - Love through adversity, love everlasting.
  • Depart for the Gold Mine with Kei/Kagome
    • Immediately post-departure, have Canvass check the team for any scent-based markers.
    • Break trail with skywalkers a few miles out from Leaf. Use skywalkers exclusively.
    • Make a few random turns early on to obscure your trail. Use dice to randomize
    • Upon arrival, establish a basic perimeter around the mine before starting extraction.
    • Set up chakra on tap with Noburi for the duration.
    • For each cast of ES, concentrate the gold in the AoE into a small volume of earth.
    • Use ECs to dig up the highly concentrated gold-dirt mixture and store it in baskets
      • Bring extra baskets and storage seals. Draw down the Seal Bank if necessary.
    • Pass the gold off to Noburi via the Seventh Path
      • Give him enough to pay off Tsunade and keep a healthy buffer, keep the rest in Dog.
      • Suggest that Mari claim it comes from the Dogs.
      • We can pay Leaf miners to finish sifting it.
      • After it's purified, suggest that Mari have the Tower to mint it into ryo for a small fee.
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Edits for wording and clarity. WC now specified, I don't think we're gonna get below 300, but if anyone wants to try, go right ahead.
 
Sir Stompy said:
Edits for wording and clarity. WC now specified, I don't think we're gonna get below 300, but if anyone wants to try, go right ahead.
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I think you could probably cut the part about asking Mari help with the flower messaging (we know Hazou picked up some things from Ino over time, and I think it would be cuter/more touching if Hazou did it himself.

Also, have we said anywhere in a successful plan who is in charge once we're gone?
 
Halberdier said:
I think you could probably cut the part about asking Mari help with the flower messaging (we know Hazou picked up some things from Ino over time, and I think it would be cuter/more touching if Hazou did it himself.

Also, have we said anywhere in a successful plan who is in charge once we're gone?
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Mic drop a dull spoon and make them fight over who has to do it?

EDIT: Edits made
Sir Stompy said:
Noburi is busy, so Mari is in charge. Unless there are objections?
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Sir Stompy said:
Give [Ino] a farewell bouquet. Cast the fertility jutsu on the flowers.
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_The_Bomb said:
@Sir Stompy it's worth asking if the Toad Sages are fine starting Noburi's training a few months from now. Seems like Tsunade might only be here for a few months.

I'm sure Mari can find a way to give Noburi cover with the toad sages for short delay, especially if we let her throw us or Naruto under the bus. Trying to do both definitely comes across as greedy and is liable to upset both of them.
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@Sir Stompy JFU,T
 
Sir Stompy said:
On balance, Hazou prefers the Toad Sages, but the decision is Noburi's
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As someone who leans kinda towards taking Tsunade's offer (but not so much that I would make a fork advocating that route instead), could we replace this line with "Whichever route Noburi picks, he has Hazou's full support"? I don't think we need to weigh in with our own opinion after covering the pros and cons, and I'd also prefer a more direct statement of support than what we currently have.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
As someone who leans kinda towards taking Tsunade's offer (but not so much that I would make a fork advocating that route instead), could we replace this line with "Whichever route Noburi picks, he has Hazou's full support"? I don't think we need to weigh in with our own opinion after covering the pros and cons, and I'd also prefer a more direct statement of support than what we currently have.
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I've had other people ask me to say that we lean TS. But it looks like they aren't voting for me. So who cares, sure thing.
 
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