- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I can only give this post one rating, so please consider it to have received [hugs], [informative], and [insightful] as well.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
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- He/Him
Just ready the bot army to give all the reacts you want /s
These are my assumptions re: EJ's comments
Presumably, to intentionally induce personality drift. Essentially, Mari is nosy and thinks she cracked something Kei was trying to hide since their spat is pretty public knowledge, but it's actually some Nara business. Whether anyone buys that or not, I leave to you
Yes
Other bloodline users who would otherwise not want to be anywhere near Oro for fear of death
That part probably just needs to be reworded entirely, but I think it should mean "Ami, Kei is fucked if I can't convince Oro Snowflake is a dead-end. Whatever forbidden lore you know about bloodline shit that I can tell him to make him fuck off, please tell me now. Make him fear for his immortality via cognitohazard, eldritch horror, or what have you. If that means you have to throw me in a caldera later so be it"
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
The line in the sand is our continued survival and ability to actualize our full potential, and the secrecy of our bloodline secrets. I have been open about this in the past, making me restate it just wastes everyone's time.
To be clear:
- When I say 'if we give him what he wants, he doesn't want it anymore', that's the nigh-tautological statement of 'if a given Orochimaru's interest in us is to gain xyz knowledge, and he gains xyz knowledge, that portion of his interest is fulfilled and disappears'.
- I believe that the remainder, experiments he can only do on Hazou that involve his death, is not a large subset of the experiments Orochimaru can perform, the information he can gain, or his interest in us. Accordingly, I expect his inclination to further antagonize us for research to drop dramatically at this point.
- And yes, it's not a long-term solution, the long-term solution is resurrecting Jiraiya and Hashirama and getting them to keep the snake in line one way or another. Guess what, our survival is a prerequisite for that.
- Look at your own suggestion and ask yourself if Asuma would accept, if Asuma could accept. He all but said he's powerless against Orochimaru and that Orochimaru's just waiting for an opportunity to prove that, and he very directly told us that he needs Orochimaru to help fight WWIV, which he can't do sequestered in his basement. It was made very clear to us: Asuma will not choose Hazou over Orochimaru.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
In one of the earlier chapters (one of Vel's, iirc), it was mentioned offhand that the wider Leaf populace thought Snowflake was "another example of a long-term social experiment." I made the comment that the line was "interesting, because it implies that the Nara have done social experiments before." If you'd like, I can try to find the exact line.
Naruto has proven that it's possible to force a personality change via Shadow Clone. Snowflake, in her very first interlude/appearance/summon mentions that Kei had fantasized about becoming a different person via this means. Naruto dissuaded her against it.
The pretend social experiment would assert that the Nara are investigating this phenomena/possibility, and that Mari wasn't aware of the experiment as a way of testing whether or not Mari could tell. And, given that the rumor mill knows that Mari and Kei are fighting (they're not exactly subtle about their disagreement/animosity while in the same room as each other, and Kei doesn't visit the Goketsu Compound very often due to Mari).
Yes, I've since changed the wording to be more clear (about to post it after this reply-post).
General populace, potentially more people means potentially more data.
During the Heaven's Cradle chapter with Ami, Hazou made a pact with "The Ami," affirming that they were "united" towards Kei's survival. Kei, at the time, groused halfheartedly with a smile on her lips, saying "you know I'm a Summoner and a badass, right? And that I'm right here?"
And when Hazou was trying to persuade Ami to Uplift, and using "I'll do anything, research any seal, go to extremes to save humanity" language, Ami cut Hazou off. Ami said "Here be dragons, if you continue then you can never go back."
This part of the plan is intended to remind Ami about her mutual agreement with Hazou to protect Kei, and then asserts to Ami that Hazou will "accept any consequences" if it means Kei lives.
@RandomOTP Not sure if you've been following the discussion, but was wondering if you could include some stuff concerning Isan. Not sure why Hazo-pilot set Oro on Isan, but it was a stroke of brilliance. And then faflec pointed out why we should not tell Orochimaru how much of a golden sandbox Isan is to him or encourage his curiosity.
So it was evil brilliance.
Especially if Arikada might still be present there and might want to curry favor there.
If Orochimaru was a teen, we just gave him $1000 and told him not to head to the arcade and his way to school.
Opposite from my original idea, I was thinking of getting Tsunade to send some med-nin get non-invasive medical info, local herbs, and to cultivate a personal relationship with Takahashi. In return Takahashi might med-nin, med jutsu, foundations and expertise of a major village, and the personal relationship with Takahashi. Should insulate Isan enough to for Orochimaru not to poke around too much.
Can you add the following...
[x] Action Plan: Pretty Damn Far
So it was evil brilliance.
Especially if Arikada might still be present there and might want to curry favor there.
If Orochimaru was a teen, we just gave him $1000 and told him not to head to the arcade and his way to school.
Opposite from my original idea, I was thinking of getting Tsunade to send some med-nin get non-invasive medical info, local herbs, and to cultivate a personal relationship with Takahashi. In return Takahashi might med-nin, med jutsu, foundations and expertise of a major village, and the personal relationship with Takahashi. Should insulate Isan enough to for Orochimaru not to poke around too much.
Can you add the following...
- Tell Asuma and Tsunade about the benefit of having some med-nin accompany Orochimaru to catalogue Isan's unique resources. (Ninja dense village isolated from the EN for at time, local herbs, cultivating personal ties with it's leader, who is keen on obtaining medical knowledge.) In return Takahashi is probably interested in medical jutsu, maybe build out Isan's infrastructure to support a war, and more personal ties to Leaf leadership.
- Side benefit: Asuma can balance Orochimaru's leverage against Tsunade's.
[x] Action Plan: Pretty Damn Far
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
On mobile, leaving work, my apologizes if the edits are misspelled, or if I've missed some of the feedback/discussion. I'll give it another run through after I get home and eat dinner.
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Added, with admission of morality.
I'm not sure the speech would work, given that, according to Vel, Tsunade isn't a gambling addict as in canon.
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Added, with admission of morality.
@RandomOTP I will vote for you if you add the gambling reference from my plan back to the Tsunade section
Remember, this is an EJ update and he loves BAMF speeches
I'm not sure the speech would work, given that, according to Vel, Tsunade isn't a gambling addict as in canon.
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IV found quotes that I did not
Seems like she does like gambling but no one talks about it in Leaf. I don't want to leave our/whomever's conversation with her essentially blank and have EJ do all the work, especially when Naruto's section has some extra flavor, and it's something that Hazou can relate to with her, makes for (what I think) is a cool story beat, and ideally gets her on board where a mere "pls help" does not. And it would make me happy so a true utilitarian would do it
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Um, Faflec kind of pointed out why that might not go down so good with the clan. I'd say do the opposite. We just advocate for Tsunade to send some friendlier med-nin faces down to Isan to counter balance Orochimaru. They can get what's needed without doing the equivalent of Final Gift.
Shorten as needed but same as the reply above the quote.
- Location
- how about no
[X] Action Plan: Do Not Go Quietly Under the Knife
Word Count: 281
Additions in Cyan
- Orochimaru will not harm our family nor Leaf:
- Humbly ask Asuma in utmost secrecy for an S-rank mission to either reform Snuncle or kill Oro.
- We will not pursue executing such a mission now, but we need time to prepare countermeasures for after the war
- Humbly ask Asuma in utmost secrecy for an S-rank mission to either reform Snuncle or kill Oro.
- Advise Asuma in private to order Oro to postpone new experiments so that Oro can focus fully on dissecting Cloud and Rock bodies for the Leaf war effort
- There can be a provision to have Oro allowed to defend Leaf if it comes under attack
- Suggest that Kei along with whoever Asuma deems necessary should be sent to Iron so that she can prevent and disrupt communications between Cloud and Rock and to get her away from Oro
- Apologize for trying to use Leaf strategy for our personal needs again
- Offer Asuma FOOM (for his personal use only) as compensation and in the hope he can one day stand like his father did in a non-patronizing way
- Lead with and stress the importance of FOOM as our clan secret as a sign of our cooperation and belief in him personally
- Talk with our clan about potential ways to keep Kei, Hazou, and everyone else safe from Oro
- Sanity check exploratory surgery on Hazou ideas as a last resort
- Set up meetings with Naruto and Tsunade to explain the realpolitik regarding Oro, Asuma's position, and Oro's desire for Goketsu secrets
- They are the only two preventing Oro from going among the clans quietly taking what he wants
- If not for Hazou's sake, please protect us for everyone else's sake to keep the peace inside of Leaf and the Will of Fire alive, untainted
Word Count: 281
Additions in Cyan
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
There is absolutely no way this goes over well after we just got out of a conversation with Asuma saying we pretty much need Orochimaru or Leaf is doomed and he will choose him over us
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] Going the Distance
[X] Action Plan: Pretty Damn Far
[X] Action Plan: Pretty Damn Far
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The Isan part or the Mori part?
I'm not sure Asuma would allow medics to be sent outside of Leaf right now. We're at war with Rock, possibly also Cloud. It'll be all-hands-on-deck.
Is Orochimaru being sent to Isan? The way I read the chapter made it seem like it was ambiguous.
- Location
- how about no
I find it helpful, sorry. Thank you for your in depth reply.
I do not believe that even if everyone in the Goketsu gives ourselves up to be strapped to Oro's surgical table we will ever satisfy Oro's unending hunger for more knowledge.
I fully expect him to go after Noburi and Kei next once we prove to him that intimidating us gets him what he wants: access to our bodies. He will admonish us saying that 'there is always more to learn' and he will get to us in due time.
Long term sure, I am more concerned with the medium term once everyone gets deployed for the war and Hazou is left behind to stop the dragons and Oro is left in Leaf for defense and autopsies.
If we ask Asuma to phrase it in front of the war council as he gives everyone their orders? Yes, I could see it working because Tsunade and Naruto will be there too, nodding along as Asuma gives his reasons for Oro's orders.
You're welcome; polite disagreement is always appreciated. The thread moves fast enough, especially in such crises as this, that keeping everyone's arguments in mind becomes difficult while still putting forth one's own take.
Social pressure in the war council can be our saving grace here rather than being strapped to a surgical table. If I were Naruto or Tsunade I would much prefer the former over watching over an unneeded exploratory surgery.
If we have to ask each of them for a favor, would it not sound more (frankly) sane to ask for protection first instead of leading with walking willingly into Oro's tender mercies?
Would a change in wording to make that more clear win over one of your votes for the plan?
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Major Content Change: removed Immoral Distractions (alternative Mori and Isan as a control group).
Major Content Change: deleted Last Will Segment. I feel that requires its own plan, and we can use a Fate point to declare Hazou had a will once he dies. This also frees up word count.
Major Content Changes Over, All Following Changes will be minor word choice alterations in the pursuit of minimizing word count.
Major Content Change: deleted Last Will Segment. I feel that requires its own plan, and we can use a Fate point to declare Hazou had a will once he dies. This also frees up word count.
Major Content Changes Over, All Following Changes will be minor word choice alterations in the pursuit of minimizing word count.
The Isan part.
Part of the reasoning is that I highly doubt Isan is capable of being able to sustain a war even as allies. Their medical foundations are just too weak. They'd probably suffer more attrition than normal. Oro probably would do the bare minimum to get them where they are needed. Tsunade would know this wouldn't fly.
It seemed that way. We were told we could make suggestions or additions for the Isan trip.
I don't remember this. Context?
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Also. Should we add a contingency for if Oro catches Kei as she leaves Asuma's office and demands her immediately come to the compound?
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Okay, so can we maybe slow the speed down on these a bit?
One thing I'd like to do first, is talk to both Hinata and Sasuke about the situation, omitting specifics of course.
I would be pretty surprised if they werent in full agreement that this is sort of complete horseshit, and rightly so.
Now, the situation as it stands is that there are maybe a handful of clans (the only one of real note culturally are the Nara, and ISC as a whole) that would be pissed enough about this— but this is likely just due to asymetric information flow... they have no idea its a thing.
We went to Asuma operating within this context, and he essentially said "No, no you don't understand, this is not a problem I can solve."
I do not believe that to actually be true in the literal sense. I think that it is definitely the case that he believes that in some way, but the actual thing he said is closer in real meaning to "I don't know how to solve this problem in a satisfactory manner at the moment, and I don't care enough to think about it anymore."
This is probably sufficient (but sad) as far as he sees it, because Hazou is one person, and Keiko and Noburi and Hazou etc are, while politically powerful, are definitely not a hill worth attempting to Shut Up and Do The Impossible for, or even anything approaching that from his perspective.
This operating context changes quite significantly if we go to him with people like Sasuke, Hinata, Chouza, Shino, the Inuzuka, etc. and say "No, Lord Hokage, you do not understand: people being abducted and turned into meat on a table at the whims of this lunatic are simply not a thing that we believe we can tolerate in this village. You need to Solve This Problem."
This creates a vastly different scenario that might achieve results, instead of the token response given.
One thing I'd like to do first, is talk to both Hinata and Sasuke about the situation, omitting specifics of course.
I would be pretty surprised if they werent in full agreement that this is sort of complete horseshit, and rightly so.
Now, the situation as it stands is that there are maybe a handful of clans (the only one of real note culturally are the Nara, and ISC as a whole) that would be pissed enough about this— but this is likely just due to asymetric information flow... they have no idea its a thing.
We went to Asuma operating within this context, and he essentially said "No, no you don't understand, this is not a problem I can solve."
I do not believe that to actually be true in the literal sense. I think that it is definitely the case that he believes that in some way, but the actual thing he said is closer in real meaning to "I don't know how to solve this problem in a satisfactory manner at the moment, and I don't care enough to think about it anymore."
This is probably sufficient (but sad) as far as he sees it, because Hazou is one person, and Keiko and Noburi and Hazou etc are, while politically powerful, are definitely not a hill worth attempting to Shut Up and Do The Impossible for, or even anything approaching that from his perspective.
This operating context changes quite significantly if we go to him with people like Sasuke, Hinata, Chouza, Shino, the Inuzuka, etc. and say "No, Lord Hokage, you do not understand: people being abducted and turned into meat on a table at the whims of this lunatic are simply not a thing that we believe we can tolerate in this village. You need to Solve This Problem."
This creates a vastly different scenario that might achieve results, instead of the token response given.
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I have a couple suggested changes to the plan
I think we should change "vivisection" to "bloodline examination" setting the tone for negotiations is very important, and IMO immediately calling it a vivisection is a misstep on our part by giving too much ground too soon.
I would prefer this be spelled out a little more, "Hazou should recover from surgery in a few weeks". Mechanically that's a Moderate Physical Consequence. If we take another Severe Consequence right now. Hazou dies and Oro can blame us for being too weak for the surgery.
I would like this changed to "If Orochimaru desires, Hazou will share live data to Orochimaru during procedure, and explain experience in detail afterward, for more data. Otherwise Hazou will be anesthetized by Noburi and kept unconscious for the surgery."
An complication is that Oro demanded Kei come in the morning. But it is now afternoon. So delaying could make him more angry and less inclined to listen to ideas about mutually beneficial vivisection.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Tell Ami, and I'm sure she'll jump on the table in a heartbeat instead.
That's something Asuma wouldn't be able to ignore either, I don't think, and I don't think hes thought of "What will Ami Mori do to prevent this thing or do after this thing happens, and what will the fallout be from that?"
Because, in some universes where this plays out in some interesting ways this might look like a reallllllllll good excuse for Mist to join up with Cloud and Rock on the "Time to annihilate Leaf" train.
- Location
- how about no
Asuma is aware of what would happen if Oro pushed more openly/publicly for in depth clan examinations. The realpolitik comes down to Naruto and Tsunade as the other 2 S-rankers being the deciding factor. Without them the clans with the KEI and Oro will come to blows causing a schism within Leaf that Asuma will not be able to solve on his own even as the Hokage.
No lord hokage makes it sound like we told them about Asuma wanting us to deal with it privately? we promised him not to tell others wat he said
so i don't think we should mention that. we could just mention to the clans we want them to come with us to put pressure on the kage to guarantee safety from oro
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
I could see myself voting for this except...
- Humbly ask Asuma in utmost secrecy for an S-rank mission to either reform Snuncle or kill Oro.
- We will not pursue executing such a mission now, but we need time to prepare countermeasures for after the war
- Offer Asuma FOOM as compensation and in the hope he can one day stand like his father did in a non-patronizing way
- Lead with and stress the importance of FOOM as our clan secret as a sign of our cooperation and belief in him personally
- Offer Asuma FOOM as compensation and in the hope he can one day stand like his father did in a non-patronizing way
These. I can't offer FOOM to anyone as it throws out any hope of Goketsu supremacy. And asking the Kage to kill Orochimaru just...doesn't seem like it'd go well.
- Location
- Yes.
After consideration, I feel that this section should be reworded. Consider instead:
- We will (conditionally) volunteer for live vivisection.
- Offer to share whatever live data we can to Orochimaru during the procedure, and explain experience in detail afterward, for more data.
- In exchange, Orochimaru agrees to:
- Ensure we survive with no permanent injury.
- Allows Tsunade and Naruto to attend. If we die, they commit to immediately destroying our body to deny further data acquisition.
- Orochimaru shares data with Hazou only.
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