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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Noumero said:
I pretty much see three viable approaches here:
  1. Just tell her to train Resolve/meditate with no explanation, asking her to just trust you on this and to come to you if she figures anything out. No talk of "secrets", nothing.
  2. Tell her everything, ask her to honestly evaluate if she'd be tempted to tell Ami, and if "yes" to come to you first.
  3. Don't tell her.
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So I agree that these options are probably the best. I would prefer #1, since it works out to be the same IMO.

Some subsets of the Hivemind for whatever reasons feel like not telling her is some sort of mistrust signal or whatever.

If they can reach an accord that would be great, but I feel like the likely result of this conversation is Option 1 while appealing to those people who want to somehow <Hello Keiko I trust you yes> on this.

I think I could remove the SC bit and keep the Resolve bit and thats less of an issue.

The vaguery is somewhat intentional. I don't want Hazou to do anything her besides emphasize to her that there is some huge Thing and that its important through a pile of Hazoubabble. I think the benefits could be spelled out, but I would want to be careful how I word that as well.

Thoughts?
 
MMKII said:
Some subsets of the Hivemind for whatever reasons feel like not telling her is some sort of mistrust signal or whatever.
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I'm okay with not telling her, but we either need to not tell her at all --which I feel is a bad idea, since secrets almost always reveal themselves in time (especially to those closest to us) --or be careful in the way that we tell her. I worry that if we're not careful with the way that we ask our questions, we could irreparably damage our relationship with Keiko.

CCnJ example:
Keiko, I know that it's hard to juggle your obligations to the Goketsu while also trying to prove yourself worthy to the Nara clan's nay-sayers, while also trying to work on Uplift. It's been a delicate balancing act for you to do that, and still somehow find the strength of will to pursue your own happiness with Tenten --despite what shortsighted idiots might think. It's an endeavor that I could never fully grasp the difficulty of, and I am forever awed by the sheer amount of strength and enduring willpower that you repeatedly show on a daily basis. No, I see that look. Don't dismiss what I'm saying. It's true and we both know it. You have the sort of strength of will that I would be happy to one day have half of. And, to confess, I'm more than a little torn right now. I have something that could easily be described as the Goketsu's most important clan secret... but I don't want to increase the strain you're already under. Not because I "don't think you can handle it" and not because I "don't trust you," or anything horribly stupid like that. But because you're my sister. You're the person who also lived in Mist, who understands what it was like to live under Yugara and the adjust to the Leaf. You're someone who endured the Swamp alongside me, who lived with us as a missing nin, where all we had was little more than our trust and faith in each other. You're my sister, and I am loathe to make your life difficult when, as your brother, I should be making it easier. But, more than my familial love for you, I also respect the fuck out of you and your right to choose. So I'll leave it up to you: do you and Snowflake want knowledge of this secret, even though, by keeping it secret, it'll make your personal life yet more strained? Whatever you choose, know that I love you and will not love you any less for whatever choice you make. If you need time to think about it, take all the time in the world.
 
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MMKII said:
So I agree that these options are probably the best. I would prefer #1, since it works out to be the same IMO.

Some subsets of the Hivemind for whatever reasons feel like not telling her is some sort of mistrust signal or whatever.

If they can reach an accord that would be great, but I feel like the likely result of this conversation is Option 1 while appealing to those people who want to somehow <Hello Keiko I trust you yes> on this.

I think I could remove the SC bit and keep the Resolve bit and thats less of an issue.

The vaguery is somewhat intentional. I don't want Hazou to do anything her besides emphasize to her that there is some huge Thing and that its important through a pile of Hazoubabble. I think the benefits could be spelled out, but I would want to be careful how I word that as well.

Thoughts?
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I don't know. I know why I consider that option suboptimal:
  • Telling Keiko to train Resolve and SC is guaranteed to clue her in swiftly.
  • Telling her to train Resolve only would lead to her spending all her current XP on Resolve instead of SC, which would represent a net loss of 160 XP, according to the spreadsheet.
  • If we plan to cut her in eventually, which telling her to train Resolve would imply, why are we not doing it now? She's 25 XP = a week away from SC 30 and therefore FOOM.
  • How long are we planning to delay telling her? What are we waiting for? For what are we paying these 160 XP?
 
Keiko is important, but it's not time critical. Meanwhile, the chocolate conspiracy is time critical. I preferred we focus on time critical items first.

But I understand that Keiko is unwittingly torturing the playerbase...
 
Kiba said:
Keiko is important, but it's not time critical. Meanwhile, the chocolate conspiracy is time critical. I preferred we focus on time critical items first.

But I understand that Keiko is unwittingly torturing the playerbase...
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I mean the primary concern of mine here is the Dog mission. I view this as the highest priority we should have until its completed, short pf a lfie or death struggle. The chocolate thing doesn't really measure up unless it starts causing immediate problems and roadblocks to that particular mission.

The Keiko FOOM stuff is just extra.
 
MMKII said:
I mean the primary concern of mine here is the Dog mission. I view this as the highest priority we should have until its completed, short pf a lfie or death struggle. The chocolate thing doesn't really measure up unless it starts causing immediate problems and roadblocks to that particular mission.

The Keiko FOOM stuff is just extra.
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Keiko is the highest voted plan.

I have a doggo section and Faflec does too, but it's currently not winning at the moment.
 
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MMKII said:
I mean the primary concern of mine here is the Dog mission. I view this as the highest priority we should have until its completed, short pf a lfie or death struggle. The chocolate thing doesn't really measure up unless it starts causing immediate problems and roadblocks to that particular mission.

The Keiko FOOM stuff is just extra.
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We could have a talk with Mari to discuss our options (i.e. throw possible suggestions and, barring Mari suggesting otherwise, implement our in-vote plan), assign Haru/Yuno/etc to guard people who will be digging the acquduct --since the land's cleared --and then go on the chakra beast hunt with our summons and the other summoners.
 
Kiba said:
I have a doggo section and Faflec does too, but it's currently not winning at the moment.
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You don't though?

I'm addressing the mission given to us by the Dogs by having Hazou take tangible steps towards attempting to get this done quickly and to their satisfaction independent of how far in the future this vague deadline may or may not be.

I don't believe either of you are doing this besides a vague "Continue all those projects" put in.
 
RandomOTP said:
We could have a talk with Mari to discuss our options (i.e. throw possible suggestions and, barring Mari suggesting otherwise, implement our in-vote plan), assign Haru/Yuno/etc to guard people who will be digging the acquduct --since the land's cleared --and then go on the chakra beast hunt with our summons and the other summoners.
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From my understanding, we still need to clear the land. If the digging is going to be a lot of soil removed and that part of it need brute force, then it could be done quickly by ninja with the right technique.

However, Haru/Yuno are valuable lieutenants, and shouldn't be spent on grunt work. I mean Yuno isn't a lieutenant of ours yet. She has yet to decide who she's going to marry.
 
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MMKII said:
You don't though?

I'm addressing the mission given to us by the Dogs by having Hazou take tangible steps towards attempting to get this done quickly and to their satisfaction independent of how far in the future this vague deadline may or may not be.

I don't believe either of you are doing this besides a vague "Continue all those projects" put in.
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OH! You mean the other mission. Right.
 
RandomOTP said:
We could have a talk with Mari to discuss our options (i.e. throw possible suggestions and, barring Mari suggesting otherwise, implement our in-vote plan), assign Haru/Yuno/etc to guard people who will be digging the acquduct --since the land's cleared --and then go on the chakra beast hunt with our summons and the other summoners.
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We could do that. How does this assist us in getting the Dogs something to transport all of their puppies though?
 
Kiba said:
From my understanding, we still need to clear the land. If the digging is going to be a lot of soil removed, we'll need to remove soil too.

However, Haru/Yuno are valuable lieutenants, and shouldn't be spent on grunt work. I mean Yuno isn't a lieutenant of ours yet. She has yet to decide who she's going to marry.
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I... guess the QMs meant that the land was clear of chakra beasts? I seem to remember them saying that the land had been cleared of trees, though I'll readily admit that I might be mistaken. As for Haru, I would agree that he shouldn't be sent for grunt work, but I can't remember if the acquduct was a secret or not --can't really hire out ninja to do that if it is. Yuno might be willing to do it if we also send Noburi, pay her, give her some of Kagome's directional explosives, and then say she can keep whatever she doesn't use?

By the way, I still think Hazou should spend time with Yuno. She's Akane's friend, a cool person, and regardless of whether or not we become her clan lord, she seems like she'd be a cool friend. It'd also give her more screen time... but I say that about all the side characters. This quest has some phenomenal character work!

MMKII said:
We could do that. How does this assist us in getting the Dogs something to transport all of their puppies though?
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Oh, I thought you meant training our new summon when you said the Dog mission. Oops. Sorry, today's been a little crazy. In that case, the suggestion could read like:

We could have a talk with Mari to discuss our options (i.e. throw possible suggestions and, barring Mari suggesting otherwise, implement our in-vote plan), assign Haru/Yuno/etc to guard people who will be digging the acquduct --since the land's cleared --and then work on the alterations, as described in the last chapter. Ask the Inuzuka clan if they'd be willing to have their dogs stress-test them, in return for (money, citrus trade, idk. We don't have a lot to offer right now), then use our new summon to test the successes of those.
 
RandomOTP said:
We could have a talk with Mari to discuss our options
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I'm going to be honest here, I've virtually never left a conversation where we just ping Mari for some worldstate details and some advice on direction to take feeling satisfied.

RandomOTP said:
Ask the Inuzuka clan if they'd be willing to
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In general I'd like to approach them on this. I think thats its own scene and a half that probably requires a separate plan though.
 
MMKII said:
I'm going to be honest here, I've virtually never left a conversation where we just ping Mari for some worldstate details and some advice on direction to take feeling satisfied.



In general I'd like to approach them on this. I think thats its own scene and a half that probably requires a separate plan though.
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If nothing else, it serves as a sanity check for our own plans (testing it against basic EN-style logic) and as a mental-check in for Mari's emotional state.

We could send a message, asking them about working together on a project? Then while they respond, go ahead and make last chapter's suggestions and then test them with our summon? Then whatever doesn't work, we can potentially try test with the Inuzuka later on so as to not (unduly) offend our combat summon.
 
Speaking of dogs, @MMKII when talking about the dog sleds/engineers, maybe you could frame it in terms of Keiko's uplift? It's a way to get what engineers they have a novel lesson instead of whatever day-to-day stuff they have.
 
faflec said:
Speaking of dogs, @MMKII when talking about the dog sleds/engineers, maybe you could frame it in terms of Keiko's uplift? It's a way to get what engineers they have a novel lesson instead of whatever day-to-day stuff they have.
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Sure. I don't really have time or phone battery to spare for the next 12 hours or so, but if someone wants to tinker with stuff and throw something at me to include I will happily do so.
 
MMKII said:
Sure. I don't really have time or phone battery to spare for the next 12 hours or so, but if someone wants to tinker with stuff and throw something at me to include I will happily do so.
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Sure. Maybe adding something like this?
  • In Uplift terms, it would also give the engineers a novel project to work on, and a way for their students to apply what they've learned into a practical form.
 
roobee said:
What's the state of the arguments for and against accepting Candoru? Currently I'm leaning against accepting him
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My reasoning, which is probably not fully in-line with the rest of the thread:
  • If we decline Candoru we won't have the opportunity to get another Summon until we finish the sleds, which will take some time.
  • We are planning on going to the iron mine soon, so that's a perfect opportunity to fight with him, and we need/want combat summons at that time (see above).
  • Cannai's concern about Candoru holding back only applies if he spars with our real selves, but we have SC that can be used for sparring.
  • Also, we get ++ to our relationship with the Dogs if we do them this solid.
 
On the subject of "what happens to the clan secret", lets hope to the Great sage and Yashin-sama that Ami never goes for Shadow Clone: If her clones are to her what Snowflake is to Keiko in terms of mental effects (unlikely, but not impossible) I think we hit Bad End very quickly.

Also, on the subject of telling Keiko, here are some thoughts
1. If this all works, either Keiko figures it out or she doesn't. She probably does, in which case the presence of a clan secret she's not in on might be interpreted as a breach on our relationship. More dangerously, if she doesn't, she may ion fact be by her own estimation falling behind which may send her on another worthspiral, which is the sort of thing that gets Ami investigating and us Caldera'd.
2. This is perhaps our Point of No Return to decide whether Keiko is still within our trust. I'm not sure she wouldn't be obligated to spread the secret, and I support discussions with Mari, but ...that is what this is. If the answer is no, that might be optimal for some things, but it would be a shame.
 
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@Immortal Lurker
mission takes too long for me

MMKII said:
Advise her quite strongly to train Shadow Clone to the point where she can use it for a few hours, and to train up Resolve.
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I'd put this on higher OPSEC. Saying that this is a big deal and advising SC and resolve is already a pretty big hint to any observers.

@faflec @Kiba
I'd add only doing the sabotage stuff if necessary to prevent bankruptcy. Even if the remaining chocolate farm breaks our monopoly I think we have much more supply so that it wouldn't have huge effect. And also brainstorming with the clan how to get the chocolate using nicer methods. Like buying chocolate or bribing the chocolate workers to stop working on the chocolate farm.

[x] Action Plan: Kagome's Forbidden Lore
 
Aura said:
On the subject of "what happens to the clan secret", lets hope to the Great sage and Yashin-sama that Ami never goes for Shadow Clone: If her clones are to her what Snowflake is to Keiko in terms of mental effects (unlikely, but not impossible) I think we hit Bad End very quickly.
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Shadow clones are a state secret, with Asuma himself having taught us (and also Keiko, I think?). If Ami goes to learn the SC, that's something that no amount of political gymnastics can excuse, which opens her up to a Bad End --just look at what Jiraiya was able to Hana when she broke the unwritten guidelines for ambassadors, and that was without Hana endangering State Secrets/National Security.

Besides, Ami's a political creature more than a military one, so I don't think she'd seek out the Shadow Clone jutsu (esp. since it would give Asuma cause to tell Orochimaru he can have Ami's corpse for research).
 
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