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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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TaliesinSkye said:
That doesn't seem to have anything to do with what I said. With the exception of bloodline powers, there aren't really things that are somehow magically restricted to one character that nobody else can learn.
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It's not about technique being learnable, it's about talent and specialization.

Minato being able to do X and Y is due to his talent and effort in doing any sealing. Whereas Itachi and Danzo being able to do sealing feats without showing that they are considered sealmasters in their own right invalidate the idea that sealing are limited to a small group of people who decide to specialize in it.
 
Kiba said:
It's not about technique being learnable, it's about talent and specialization.

Minato being able to do X and Y is due to his talent and effort in doing any sealing. Whereas Itachi and Danzo being able to do sealing feats without showing that they are considered sealmasters in their own right invalidate the idea that sealing are limited to a small group of people who decide to specialize in it.
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Nitpick: Danzo is Sarutobi's peer. There's literally no reason he can't be a master of pretty much everything.

Itachi: I don't think Itachi has sealing feats beyond some esoteric knowledge about certain techniques like Edo Tensei, and a few bullshit abilities like his Susano'o Sword that use the word "sealing" but don't really mean "Sealing". Perhaps I'm not remembering it right though.
 
Cariyaga said:
Honestly, I'm concerned that much of that mantra is self-centered.
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As am I. It doesn't really gel with Hazou's personality.

MMKII said:
I mean we COULD upgrade it much farther, but all of the other stats cost more due to being higher level.

Do you know how the skill buying mechanics work? Have you read the new rules?


Don't take it personally. I don't think any negativity is actually meant.



This is it!

  • Under the word count """"""limit""""""
  • Gives us an opportunity for some good character growth moments re:Hazou's Willpower.
  • Gives us an opp. to purchase FiF
  • Is "Ambitious", or perhaps as close to it as we can get without eschewing safety.


I'm gonna be honest.

1) Hazou can do this.

If Keiko, despite literally being unable to process human social interaction as easily as another human being can, is able to argue Hana (the diplomat with bullshit clan social training and good socials) into a corner, then Mr. "Pretty Damn Far." can defy someones bullshit will-projection a little bit. Especially if Akane can do the same just because she says the words "Youth" under her breath and believes hard enough.

Hazou is the one who charges into danger without a second thought to save his teammates from a pile of missing-nin, kills said missing-nin, and then rescues them. (Aside: I'm reasonably certain that Hazou has the highest killcount of the four of them, modulo any secret mission bullshit Noburi has done.)

Hazou stares death in the face on a daily basis as a sealmaster. He gets shafted outside of his dimension and gets punted back by a giant whale, as demonic gods are grasping for his soul. No big deal, just a day in the life.



He then proceeds to stare Jiraiya down when he questions his ideals.



The balls on this kid.

Hazou gets K.O.-ed for 8 hours, gets resuscitated and shakes it off to save his team. No big deal.

After his (former) girlfriend rips his soul out, and a proctor tries to tear down everything he stands for, he flips the world the bird, lets them know to be ready for an asskicking and proceeds to #Wreck everyone with some awesome planning before doing some unneeded but 100% epic Dragonball tier shit in punching out a taijutsu spec Cloud ninja. All in a days work.

Hazou gets his ass dumped and decides that the best therapy would be to start running around upside down and challenging every Jonin in the village to a spar. Proceeds to get his ass beaten into the ground by Gai for a few hours, but the kid keeps getting back up. No sweat.

Testing his new toys almost takes his spleen out? You would think this would be traumatic in some way?

Just a few days later:

JIRAIYA: So you won't do that thing again, right?

HAZOU: Yeah, that was a dumb move. Oh well, I've tested everything since then. Anyways, check out how cool this shit is.

*Does some ninja ink-magic to shoot stuff from paper taped to his body*

HAZOU: See? That's pretty fucking cool.

JIRAIYA: Yeah, tell me more.

...

Hazou cannot be stopped. He is a juggernaut of determination and willpower.

We just need to let him be that a bit more often.


2) On the Risk-Averse Behavior of the Playerbase

I don't think there's anything that can go wrong here. I don't think there's anything to gain by playing it safe.

Let's dare to be great.


3) Can we give the kid an opportunity for a solid victory here?

Is giving the kid a chance to show some of the fire and iron thats inside his personality really such a bad thing?

I would be much more comfortable letting Hazou take the wheel on a lot of stuff if he had more explicit instances of that ironclad determination that we all know is lurking beneath his friendly and oblivious exterior. Whatever your intentions may be on characterization, I cannot fathom why going for "Indomitable Bastion of Willpower" is counterproductive to them.
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I'm all for getting there, but I'm not sure that I like the path your plan takes. The important question is where this determination comes from, and where it's aimed. There are two flavours of it I can see in Hazou: one stems from an idealistic belief that the world can be changed, and the determination is to make that change happen; the other comes from Hazou's goal-orientation, and is a ruthless and practical determination to achieve short-term outcomes by abusing every advantage and maximizing use of every resource.

This somewhat contradictory and somewhat harmonious combination of elements is what makes up this aspect of Hazou's personality. The strength to believe the impossible can be achieved, and the will and ingenuity to pursue it with maximum effectiveness. I think our approach here should combine these elements somehow.

HJPEV overcame the Dementors by crystalizing his own determination to defeat death. I'd like to go along similar lines here. Determination should be towards something, and what that thing is, is very important.

These are my loose thoughts for now. I'll take a swing at writing my own version of the creed tomorrow.
 
Reread some exam chapters and stumbled upon this sentence by Jiraiya:
eaglejarl said:
We'll get you some tricks during the break so you can absolutely blow out the tournament. If you all make it to the semis then...well, I won't say that my grip on the hat is assured, but it'll be a lot more solid. No pressure, though."
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What did those tricks end up being? Just that complementary earth jutsu?



MMKII said:
Are you me?

Recognition code: 1,373,653 dash 2 dash 3
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Oh neat! Now I know what the clone should say when it meets you for the first time.
Immortal Lurker said:
But we should check with Noburi.
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Of all of the Goketsu adoptees, Noburi is the one I have most confidence in when it comes to using our new recourses to work towards his goals in a concrete way.
MMKII said:
Yeah, so obviously they're all going to die in the ensuing Akatsuki attack on Leaf, huh?
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Jokes aside, if destroying Leaf is one of Akatsuki's goals, what actually does stop them from raiding the village while several of its strongest ninja are predictably abroad? Its not like they aren't already being (unsuccessfully) hunted by several major villages.
MadScientist said:
Ah fuck.

I only just realised that Killing Intent is MoR Avada Kedavra.

*head-desk*
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Does that mean we are currently trying to develop the Expecto Patronum equivalent?
 
Rafin said:
Jokes aside, if destroying Leaf is one of Akatsuki's goals, what actually does stop them from raiding the village while several of its strongest ninja are predictably abroad? Its not like they aren't already being (unsuccessfully) hunted by several major villages.
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I assume that villages hire Akatsuki for mercenary jobs when nobody's looking, so there's no real attempt to hunt them down.

Beside, I assume that they are busy completing the ritual.
 
Roomba said:
I'm all for getting there, but I'm not sure that I like the path your plan takes. The important question is where this determination comes from, and where it's aimed. There are two flavours of it I can see in Hazou: one stems from an idealistic belief that the world can be changed, and the determination is to make that change happen; the other comes from Hazou's goal-orientation, and is a ruthless and practical determination to achieve short-term outcomes by abusing every advantage and maximizing use of every resource.

This somewhat contradictory and somewhat harmonious combination of elements is what makes up this aspect of Hazou's personality. The strength to believe the impossible can be achieved, and the will and ingenuity to pursue it with maximum effectiveness. I think our approach here should combine these elements somehow.

HJPEV overcame the Dementors by crystalizing his own determination to defeat death. I'd like to go along similar lines here. Determination should be towards something, and what that thing is, is very important.

These are my loose thoughts for now. I'll take a swing at writing my own version of the creed tomorrow.
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I don't see why the version in @MadScientist 's plan is self centered.

If you are to defeat someone in a contest of wills,you have to "believe your own hype."

It's almost self-defeating to go about this if you don't somehow, deep down, at least believe that you are made of sterner stuff than the other guy.

Perhaps that comes from your life experiences. Perhaps that comes from your ideals. Perhaps that comes from some emotion like Love or Hatred or your sheer goddamn annoyance at having to deal with this or something else.

Perhaps all of that blends together in some weird way, and that's what does the trick.

But you have to believe!

What did the trick for HJPEV was his absolute, ironclad, 100% certain belief that Death would be destroyed.

HPMOR said:
I know you now, Harry thought as his wand twitched once, twice, thrice and four times, as his fingers slid exactly the right distances, I comprehend your nature, you symbolize Death, through some law of magic you are a shadow that Death casts into the world.

And Death is not something I will ever embrace.

It is only a childish thing, that the human species has not yet outgrown.

And someday...

We'll get over it...

And people won't have to say goodbye any more...

The wand rose up and leveled straight at the Dementor.

"EXPECTO PATRONUM!"
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But this was the solution to the problem at hand. Not because of some purity of his belief, but because this key was pre-made to fit into this hole already.

What's going to beat the "Ninja can will you into the dirt because." thing is going to be

"Fuck you, I will myself off of the ground. "

If he needs a little bit of a Magic Feather to use as some spiritual fuel to get him started, that's fine. That's what the first few lines are for.

It end's on the Uplift thing. That's the most important bit. That's what he cares about most of all, and that's the happy thought thats going to kill this metaphorical dementor. Everything else is just a lead up to it. We don't need to have a few dozen lines devoted to this and only this, like it's some sort of prayer to ward off evil, and like adding additional complexity is going to give any more impact. Simple and clean is best.

We do end on it though. It doesn't all need to be solely about that, but that does need to be the shining exclamation point on the end of this statement of defiance.

Maybe it should be bolded and written in shining gold text. Would that suffice?
 
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Cariyaga said:
[X] Training Plan: In Case of Emergency, Break the Hazou

This training plan is only to be enacted if an action plan is voted for that calls for Hazou to practice projecting his own variety of KI.

Stunt: Forged in Fire [25]
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On the one hand, this is a great, thematically appropriate time to buy the stunt. On the other, why not vote in a similar scene after the tournament?
 
Paperclipped said:
On the one hand, this is a great, thematically appropriate time to buy the stunt. On the other, why not vote in a similar scene after the tournament?
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This is a response to the scenes proposed in the current plans. If the current plans didn't exist, I wouldn't have made that training plan.
MMKII said:
I don't see why the version in @MadScientist 's plan is self centered.

If you are to defeat someone in a contest of wills,you have to "believe your own hype."

It's almost self-defeating to go about this if you don't somehow, deep down, at least believe that you are made of sterner stuff than the other guy.

Perhaps that comes from your life experiences. Perhaps that comes from your ideals. Perhaps that comes from some emotion like Love or Hatred or your sheer goddamn annoyance at having to deal with this or something else.

Perhaps all of that blends together in some weird way, and that's what does the trick.

But you have to believe!

What did the trick for HJPEV was his absolute, ironclad, 100% certain belief that Death would be destroyed.



But this was the solution to the problem at hand. Not because of some purity of his belief, but because this key was pre-made to fit into this hole already.

What's going to beat the "Ninja can will you into the dirt because." thing is going to be

"Fuck you, I will myself off of the ground. "

If he needs a little bit of a Magic Feather to use as some spiritual fuel to get him started, that's fine. That's what the first few lines are for.

It end's on the Uplift thing. That's the most important bit. That's what he cares about most of all, and that's the happy thought thats going to kill this metaphorical dementor. Everything else is just a lead up to it. We don't need to have a few dozen lines devoted to this and only this, like it's some sort of prayer to ward off evil, and like adding additional complexity is going to give any more impact. Simple and clean is best.

We do end on it though. It doesn't all need to be solely about that, but that does need to be the shining exclamation point on the end of this statement of defiance.

Maybe it should be bolded and written in shining gold text. Would that suffice?
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So, I think you're misinterpretting us here. The problem isn't in "believing your own hype". The problem is in the specific things chosen as hype. Hazou's dreams, his goals, his driving force of motivation is not centered around himself. They're bigger than him; they're bigger than Leaf. So why does his mantra focus on him?

As much pride as Hazou may have in his abilities, pride is not what motivates him.
 
Cariyaga said:
So, I think you're misinterpretting us here. The problem isn't in "believing your own hype". The problem is in the specific things chosen as hype. Hazou's dreams, his goals, his driving force of motivation is not centered around himself. They're bigger than him; they're bigger than Leaf. So why does his mantra focus on him?

As much pride as Hazou may have in his abilities, pride is not what motivates him.
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I don't know why this is being misinterpreted as some sort of prideful rant. It's not.

Is it Buddha-level humble? Not by a long shot. But it's hardly 10 lines of "MY PRIDE AS AN UCHIHA!" or "YOUTHHHHHHH!"

On the flip side, it doesn't have to be 10 lines of "In the name of Uplift, I can resist you!". That's not going to do the trick.

I can include more of what would be Hazou's intrinsic motivation, sure.

But I don't see why it all has to be about that one thing. That's not the only thing that motivates him, obviously. That's not the only thing he has going for him as far as feats of willpower go.
 
MMKII said:
I don't know why this is being misinterpreted as some sort of prideful rant. It's not.
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It's how it comes across to me, at least, and I'm unsure what unique advantage other than Hazou's unique selflessness (in the world of ninja at least) would allow him to resist KI.

...On another note, do we know Nikko Minami's birthday?
 
Cariyaga said:
It's how it comes across to me, at least
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Perhaps you could offer constructive criticism then instead of just shouting it down?

From my side of the table it looks like you're just saying "But I don't like how this isn't Hazou just being 100% selfless and adhering to his goals. He isn't allowed to be determined unless he is channeling uplift. Him using his own achievements and accomplishments as a source of inspiration and willpower is bad and prideful. Vetoed."

, and I'm unsure what unique advantage other than Hazou's unique selflessness (in the world of ninja at least) would allow him to resist KI.
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I don't see why he needs a unique advantage. He just needs to be him.

Akane made progress just by saying the words YOUTH over and over. That's it! Just "Spirit of Youth can't be destroyed."

Keiko can just do this at our age (apparently) because she is a special snowflake and full of hatred and disdain for the world around her.

So it's clearly not like he needs some super duper unique advantage to do this.
 
Sigh.

If it's a rewordin' you're a-wantin':

@MadScientist

Reworded Epic Willpower Mantra and some other stuff. Wordcount is one less than before.

MadScientist said:
Alright.

Wordcount: 294

[x] Action Plan: The Power of Love to Go Even Further Beyond

  • While practicing KI with Kei, attempt to project Hazou's own soul. Not a will to destroy, but the will to protect. Even under Kei's killing intent, Hazou projects a warmth of (sibling!) love that will melt the ice and deliver to Kei the spiritual and absolutely-not-physical hug that she so clearly needs. If Hazou is mentally sundered then so be it, Kei's Killing Intent will not push away his support.
  • Try to grab an hour or so of Jiraiya's time, alone.
    • Mindset: This is going to be the most brutal thing you have ever experienced. Prepare mentally.
    • Ask him about killing intent.
      • What's the deal?
    • Help us practice resisting it, pretty please?
      • Its a critical vulnerability if some Jonin can just floor us by glaring at us.
    • Ask Jiraiya to floor you with his killing intent.
      • You are the scariest and strongest around, sir.
      • Please don't accidentally kill us or break our minds, though.
    • Now. Get. Up.
      • You are Hazou Gouketsu ,son of Hana and Shinji.
      • Just one man.
      • Jiraiya is also just one man.
      • If you can't face him in a clash of wills, how will you stand against the world itself?
      • Remember the countless thousands of innocent people barely surviving in this hellhole.
      • Fight like their lives depend on it. Because they are depending on you!
      • Giving up simply isn't an option. It never will be, as long as they're on the line.
      • By all the kami in heaven, you will Uplift this world.
      • Embrace the fiery passion of your ideals, forge your iron nerves to steel, and cast your defiance into the teeth of gods and men alike!
      • Stand. Raise your head high and look Jiraiya in the eye.
    • Repeat a few times.
      • But don't hurt yourself.
  • Make seals (Hazou decides).
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MMKII said:
Sigh.

If it's a rewordin' you're a-wantin':

@MadScientist

Reworded Epic Willpower Mantra and some other stuff. Wordcount is one less than before.
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Sorry. I didn't intend you to reword it all on your own, I was just bringing it up as something that struck me as out of character in a way that detracted from the force of the event.

[x] Action Plan: The Power of Love to Go Even Further Beyond
 
Cariyaga said:
Sorry. I didn't intend you to reword it all on your own, I was just bringing it up as something that struck me as out of character in a way that detracted from the force of the event.

[x] Action Plan: The Power of Love to Go Even Further Beyond
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I am assuming it fits the bill then? :p

NB: This is @MadScientist 's plan not mine, so suggested edits made are pending his approval and implementation, ultimately.


On reflection, I suppose leveraging Hazou's unbounded desire to save this world and its inhabitants directly, and for all that it's worth is possibly more effective than a bunch of separate motivations glued together with bricks and mortar. OTOH, the latter appeals to me more because it adds a bit more spice to things.

We'll see how the die gets cast I suppose.
 
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