Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
And in plan also cuts into our FP.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Eh, anybody we're running character sheets for we need to know how their powers work. If, for example, Akane splits off the rest of the party completely (from an OOC, XP-spending point of view; not that she doesn't seem to have already
) we don't need to see their new stuff, but anyone we're responsible for XP expenditures for shouldn't be hidden from us.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
Say, do we have any idea how much chakra boss summons take? Or how much chakra Jiraiya/Tsunade or other people capable of boss summons have so we could maybe estimate it?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
My guess is a minimum of 600.
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
Y'know, if "Truth Lost in the Fog" really does eat the user's memories, it would make a heck of a combo with shadow clone.
This is the guy who just last night almost ODed on crystal-Akimichi. I'm not sure that I trust his restraint.
"We should take the opportunity to knock Hinata out of the tournament. We can't afford not to undermine Hiashi."
"-but that would be mean!"
"-but that would be mean!"
This is the guy who just last night almost ODed on crystal-Akimichi. I'm not sure that I trust his restraint.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Could you elaborate?
What part of the plan do you meant to continue? We already done all the work from the previous plan.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
I think jy3 is talking about this:
@eaglejarl and I will both 100% support @Velorien in writing Hazou's death if this goes through. Just for the record. (Yes I know they aren't real X's but shit's gone wild before.)
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It's ok, "[X] Action Plan: Get the Ball Rolling." by MMKII has 9 votes. The joke-votes are unlikely to get that many.
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zap lunch
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Ah. I would assume that Hazou's character to supercede such a spurious vote, tbh
I would rather not encourage misaligned incentive structures.
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
Apologies for person doing impulse seals proposals. Will take a detailed look as spoons allow. In the mean time....
I've finished my detailed proposal (3 pages) for the first draft of the "Fast Trade Protocol" (FTP). You can find it here. I welcome comments/concerns and suggestions for improvements to the protocol or the rollout proposal.
Thanks.
I've finished my detailed proposal (3 pages) for the first draft of the "Fast Trade Protocol" (FTP). You can find it here. I welcome comments/concerns and suggestions for improvements to the protocol or the rollout proposal.
Thanks.
rkyeun
Cabbitus Maximus
- Location
- ◕ ‿‿ ◕
I am actually really worried about Keiko and Shadow Clone. Specifically, about trying the Frozen Skein in a Shadow Clone. If you lose yourself to the Frozen Skein, it bad ends you via MEMETIC AGENT. And when the Shadow Clone pops, that memetic agent gets transferred back to Real Keiko. And then we lose Real Keiko.
Now if you tell me Shadow Clone absolutely does not bloodline then I'm fine with this again, -- ah but if it doesn't then that poses a problem for Hazou with the Iron Nerve too. We'll have to actually figure out how to walk again when we start making clones. Because "Walking Animation #6" isn't gonna be there.
I am also kinda hopeful for Keiko to learn Shadow Clone. Because it might help with her touch issues if it's not her real body, even if it does still feel the same she'll know it isn't. And maybe that will help her get used to it since it won't FEEL any different in her real body.
Now if you tell me Shadow Clone absolutely does not bloodline then I'm fine with this again, -- ah but if it doesn't then that poses a problem for Hazou with the Iron Nerve too. We'll have to actually figure out how to walk again when we start making clones. Because "Walking Animation #6" isn't gonna be there.
I am also kinda hopeful for Keiko to learn Shadow Clone. Because it might help with her touch issues if it's not her real body, even if it does still feel the same she'll know it isn't. And maybe that will help her get used to it since it won't FEEL any different in her real body.
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I don't see how, given they'd still need to write up the mechanics of anything that a near-PC uses on screen. And it isn't like Noburi and Keiko wouldn't share how their techniques work with Hazou so he can break them; they like winning, after all
.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Hazou's the easiest test, as there's no real danger about Hazou's Shadow Clone having the Iron Nerve or not.
Noburi's got his own Shadow Clone problems, because his bloodline means he only 'naturally' has 1 CP and no one has any idea what that means for his Shadow Clones, especially if he can't use Vampiric Dew with it.
And Keiko's the one who could end up in danger depending on it, but if either of Hazou or Noburi test it out first we should be able to confirm that Shadow Clones don't copy bloodlines.
And Shadow Clones very likely don't preserve bloodlines, not just because of Kakashi but because the QMs have previously hinted that Itachi Sharingan Shadow Clones would be so hilariously OP that the world would not look like it does. This world does not look like one where Itachi could fight as five sharingan-capable Itachis at once, and thus Itachi can't create Shadow Clones with sharingans. Not airtight reasoning, but not shaky either.
zap lunch
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
For now we're only doing it in this one particular jutsu. We'll see where it goes from here.
Keep in mind that the players are NOT responsible for Keiko, Noburi, and Akane's sheets. The QMs decide what they do w it their XP. When the worst first started, we maintained the sheets ourselves, but that was a lot of effort. We started asking the players for suggestions and ended up here.Eh, anybody we're running character sheets for we need to know how their powers work. If, for example, Akane splits off the rest of the party completely (from an OOC, XP-spending point of view; not that she doesn't seem to have already
You guys have done a great job with it, and we really appreciate you making our lives easier. At the end of the day, though, it's on us to decide what NPCs do, and there have been times when they refused to do what you suggested.
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Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
My preferred combination of the plans so far.
@OliWhail, @eaglejarl, @Velorien : I'd like your opinion on the scene priority thing I experimented with below. Broadly the idea is to make our preferences known to you, while still leaving you the freedom of implementation.
[X] Action plan: Everything is a Remix
Things in ‹› brackets are not part of the plan, just a way for me to detail reasoning.
Good for you.
I however, will not prune this for a mere 0.3 FP.
This plan is an experiment trying to balance a few things:
On the other hand, pull requests are welcome. I will happy incorporate suggestions, improvements, additions or criticism.
Edit: Also the first draft was written on a phone. You'll have to wait till I get to a computer for more copyediting.
@OliWhail, @eaglejarl, @Velorien : I'd like your opinion on the scene priority thing I experimented with below. Broadly the idea is to make our preferences known to you, while still leaving you the freedom of implementation.
[X] Action plan: Everything is a Remix
Things in ‹› brackets are not part of the plan, just a way for me to detail reasoning.
The (X:Y) prefix describes how important the scene is.
The X determines how important it is that the scene happens. The Y determines how much we want it to happen onscreen. Both numbers are ranked from 0-5, with 0 being "Not at all" and 5 being "Must happen".
@QMs: Generally if Y>X we'd rather the scene not happen at all if it's not on screen. Otherwise, these are just suggestions/preferences for you to use or discard as you wish.
Some examples:
The X determines how important it is that the scene happens. The Y determines how much we want it to happen onscreen. Both numbers are ranked from 0-5, with 0 being "Not at all" and 5 being "Must happen".
@QMs: Generally if Y>X we'd rather the scene not happen at all if it's not on screen. Otherwise, these are just suggestions/preferences for you to use or discard as you wish.
Some examples:
- (0:0) ≈ Include it if you want but feel free to cut it as either a background action, or a visible action.
- (0:4) ≈ We would really like to see this scene but don't do it if you can't do it on screen.
- (2:6) ≈ Low priority, but if it happens it should probably happen on screen.
- (5:0) ≈ Has to happen but we don't care whether it's shown.
- (5:2) Train with Ebisu.
- Put effort into it, don't slack off.
- Train Alertness based stuff.
- Have him run you ragged.
- Get some jutsu.
- Chat with Tsunade
- (5:0) Mari should approve the following. Jiraiya should not know unless Mari rules otherwise.
- ‹ There's significant tension between Jiraiya and Tsunade, I expect that a degree of separation will make having a discussion more palatable for Tsunade ›
- Send Tsunade a short note w/: general uplift goals, admiration for medical work, curiosity about her long term goals, desire to chat about working together.
- (3:5) If she responds positively then Nobby, Kei, and Hazou, should chat with her.
- Be honest about our uplift goals, Keiko and Nobby should feel free to disagree and interrupt.
- ‹ We explicitly do not want anyone with jounin socials there. Our relative lack of guile should help put Tsu at ease, and trust our intentions. It's fine if she thinks we're naive or wrong, but we want her to trust that we care. ›
- Be curious about Tsunade's goals, listen, and engage.
- We don't want to use any guile, just give the impression that we care about making the world better.
- ‹ The point of this is to get a foot in the door for future collaboration, and learn what she wants. ›
- Talking about our (un-classified) experiences as a missing nin is encouraged.
- (5:0) Mari should approve the following. Jiraiya should not know unless Mari rules otherwise.
- (4:5) Hazō chats with Akane
- Talk about their recent argument.
- Tell Akane that he was worried she would break up with him.
- It took him by surprise and he doesn't want to get in that situation again.
- But he's very glad they're still dating.
- During the conversation:
- Stay Calm.
- Pay attention to akane as she talks/listens.
- Be accepting of what she says.
- Listen to what Akane says.
- Refuse any negative compels, spend FP if needed.
- Don't make it about yourself.
- Do not try to convince akane to change her mind, just listen
- If you are distressed, ask for time alone to process, and take your leave.
- After the conversation:
- Spend time alone to process if needed.
- Talk to Mari about feelings.
- Talk about their recent argument.
- (2:4) Game night
- Invite Team Gai, ask Ryōichi to invite 2-3 other friends who he thinks might enjoy it.
- Throw in an invite for any of Ryōichi's younger siblings. If he brings them, Hazou/Nobby should make an effort to play with and entertain them.
- Enjoy yourself.
- (4:0) Jiraiya's Shadow Clones
- Ask if it would be helpful if we have Noburi fill Jiraiya up from his own reserves to maximize his Shadow Clone use?
- This would boost his productivity.
- Noburi could in turn refill from Mari or Kagome or chakra beasts, if he needs to.
- Work on sealing projects with Jiraiya and Kagome.
- (4:0) Extrasensory seal preliminaries (with J and/or K)
- Goal is to make seals that buzz/vibrate when chakra flows nearby.
- Magnitude of the buzz should be based on size of chakra flow.
- Try to quickly determine viability, difficulty.
- Allow players to refocus based on preliminary results.
- Goal is to make seals that buzz/vibrate when chakra flows nearby.
- (4:0) Caravan scroll preliminaries:
- Idea: Decently sized caravans equipped with large amounts of storage scrolls would be able to transport trade goods overland very quickly and in very large amounts.
- Have discussions with J and K about:
- Value of idea.
- Expected difficulty of much larger storage scroll variant.
- Possibility to mitigate trade issues Jiraiya talked about yesterday.
- Might also provide us a good in with the Merchant Council if we provide them first opportunity on lucrative trades, and are the first to outfit them with a large amount of storage scrolls very cheaply.
- If reasonable conduct feasibility tests/experiments.
- Return to players so we can reallocate based on preliminary results.
- (5:0) Hazou spends time refilling seal loadouts as per this list
- (4:0) Macerator propulsion preliminaries
- Idea: as in spoiler below
- Discuss with J and K
- Do quick and dirty tests oi reasonable.
- Return early results to players so we can recalibrate
- (4:0) Extrasensory seal preliminaries (with J and/or K)
Hazō builds a thing
The goal is to prototype using macerators for thrust.
A macerator is used to repeatedly seal and unseal a solid object. This produces thrust. Depending on how fast this can be done, and properties of the macerator, this thrust may suffice for freeform flight at significantly greater than ninja travel speeds.
This should not take long to try; the goal here is to get quick information within the day, not build anything final. It's OK if this is a crude, hacky prototype.
If this works, tell Jiraiya about the discovery.
The goal is to prototype using macerators for thrust.
- Test whether macerators expel contents at a speed relative to the seal, by unsealing when moving. This affects maximum velocity.
- Build a proof-of-concept sled like the diagram. A boat will also work if a body of water is available. Something with wheels would be ideal if already at hand.
- Go somewhere with open, flat ground that is OPSEC-safe.
- Try to smooth ground and reduce friction (eg. with a layer of mud/ice/etc.).
- The base can be made of two wooden planks.
- The area to catch the unsealed object should be strong; a ninja-wire net might work.
- Try to keep weight down.
- The object to seal-unseal can be steel or granite. (Start light, but build up to full speed.)
- Use seals to block sound; it'll be super-loud otherwise.
This should not take long to try; the goal here is to get quick information within the day, not build anything final. It's OK if this is a crude, hacky prototype.
If this works, tell Jiraiya about the discovery.
- If the object is unsealed at a speed relative to the seal, an aerodynamic design should allow for very high top flight speeds.
- Getting the seal-unseal actions on a timer, or making seal-unseal a single action, will improve the design significantly; ask for tips/plausibility.
- Automated versions will work even better as payload-carrying missiles, since a lower weight doubles effective thrust.
- Higher capacity seals or greater output velocity matter.
- Further creativeness on our part has political ramifications; discuss.
- Should help keep the hat.
- Ideally this gives us more freedom to act on the Pangolin issue.
- This is the main reason I care about this.
- There might be a low durability limit to macerators
- 100 unsealings suffices for a full minute of high-speed flight, so it would have to be pretty low
- There might be a prohibitive minimum time delay between sealing and unsealing
- we can brute-force this by having a rotation of active seals (unseal A, reseal B, unseal C, reseal D, ..., unseal Z, reseal A)
- Macerators might only provide thrust for objects they chew up
- (and chewed-up objects are hard to reseal)
- This might be a result of the small number of people who sealtech like ours
- seems plausible since most people only have a few seals, and normal storage seals are stabilized
- This might be a result of needing a fairly sturdy contraption
- repeatedly hitting something with 100kg of steel is quite a stress-test
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Good for you.
I however, will not prune this for a mere 0.3 FP.
This plan is an experiment trying to balance a few things:
- Give the QMs information about our preferences so they can prune the update based on available tuits and their own interest.
- Provide enough plan to cover more than a day without sacrificing significant agency or the ability to react to events.
- Important when we're in explore focused phases of an explore/exploit cycle.
- Allow plans to contain more components that can just fail/happen silently in the background, especially things like asking people what they think about various ideas of ours.
- Hopefully letting us have meaty updates even when a bunch of stuff fails.
- Otherwise we're penalized for asking questions.
- See if we can find an alternative to word counts that doesn't artificially penalize exploration actions.
- I'm imagining something like using the word counts for the chunk of a plan the QMs actually execute. With some discount for background components.
- I'm not clear on what would be a good incentive scheme, but trying to figure one out will be easier with a plan or two to test it on.
On the other hand, pull requests are welcome. I will happy incorporate suggestions, improvements, additions or criticism.
Edit: Also the first draft was written on a phone. You'll have to wait till I get to a computer for more copyediting.
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@Jello_Raptor I doubt the QMs are going to care about complicated notation when deciding what to write.
Also, it's bigger than @MMKII 's plan. I will not vote for this plan unless you get wordcount lower or equal to his.
Also, it's bigger than @MMKII 's plan. I will not vote for this plan unless you get wordcount lower or equal to his.
While not disagreeing with you at all, my point was more since we are usually doing votes and such for their XP stuff, we kinda need to know how their jutsu work to actually make said decisions, and so as long as we're making said contributions we should have that info. If and when we aren't (for whatever reason{s}), we don't need that info anymore, agreed.
I do remember a couple occasions where votes went through that were dealt with IC by Noburi and/or Keiko telling Hazou to shove off, and as I recall they all made plenty of sense.
Also, I think there's some typos in that last sentence
.E: Huh. Didn't think a [ s ] without a closing bracket would screw that up.
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Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
If it's a problem they can speak for themselves.
But I would be rather surprised if complexity is an issue.
It might be too vague, my description bad, the intension unclear, or any number of other things. But somehow I don't think that our erstwhile torturers will be unable to comprehend two numbers ranking different aspects of a plan.
Good for you.
I'm not going to prune it simply for 0.3 FP, especially when the idea is to experiment with the plan format itself.
I've put a more detailed response in the plan's post itself.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
What I was meaning is, the incentive structure that is bonus FP for short plans is intended to make us write short plans. If you intend to ignore that incentive structure, then it either needs to be reworked or... something. But it should not be ignored.
Speaking from a QM perspective, I would just ignore it altogether.
It is less about word count and bonus FP and more about pruning unimportant bits.