- Location
- Yes.
Also yes, I zeroed in a bit on the TH because of the Discord convo a bit. mb
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Liverpool
I feel like an open quest vote of "do we go missing right now, yes or no" is required. There's a lot of strong arguments in both directions, and people should make their pitches. But I think we need to decide on this as a core issue, instead of voting in action plans progressively. This can happen after we take the long term mission, that's fine. But, we should have actual, decisive clarity if we want to do this now or not.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't agree - if we commit and then Cannai says "nah fuck you you can't leave" then... idk we're kinda just SOL. I don't think that'll happen but I think it's worth running this by everyone first
If you just mean 'eventually' then yeah I think there will be one
- Location
- Yes.
It's not like we'll have an easy time getting chakra for FOOM if we go missing either.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Yeah.
This post just sort of really underscores it for me, since it really feels like this will just get yoinked and used to ruthlessly optimize a few people whose philosophies and viewpoints are just not going to align with ours. Ex: We have several datapoints that the Uchiha's overall philosophy is literal trash...
Sort of seems to me that if we stay in Leaf we're not only signing up to probably be a loot pinata for Akatsuki, but we're definitely signing up to be a loot pinata for a handful of other characters simultaneously. Even putting Riftwar's various issues and hairsplitting facets aside... that would be a problematic situation on several levels.
I think there's something to say about that playstyle, but that sort of dynamic is explicitly what we've attempted to optimize our way out of with all this munchkinry.
When it comes down to the wire, no one in this setting seems to give a blackened damn about the ideas guy so long as he can't also toss you through a skyscraper. FOOM was going to be our way of addressing that in the long term, but now it seems like that's probably going to be off the table if we stay...
Last edited:
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
It's true, sourcing chakra while missing will be a difficult proposition. But not impossible, I think. I still want numbers on how much chakra Noburi can suck out of the ocean with his vastly improved Vampiric Dew skills, and I want to see about using runes to recreate that chakra-cost-reducing water over in Wind Country. Halving the amount of chakra needed for FOOM is a huge deal, and with ocean-VD income I feel we're only one or two major inventions away from being able to run full-FOOM even out in the wild. Maybe it's something like Sage Mode, maybe we find out some other kind of rune, I don't count it impossible. And half-FOOM is still better than no-FOOM, if all we can manage is the cost-halving and a respectable income from the ocean.
Plus, Orochimaru. Do you want the snake man to triple his XP income?
- Location
- Yes.
...doesn't Orochimaru have ...specimens... that Noburi used to drain chakra from? Can Orochimaru mass-produce them?
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped What did Noburi drain here?
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped What did Noburi drain here?
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Agreed, yeah.
Time to leave Leaf. I don't like it, but I don't really see any other choice.
We stay, we lose out on FOOM chakra and become a loot pinata for anyone stronger than Hazou, and I would literally rather Hazou kill himself than become that.
Time to grab our shit and get out of town.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
As I understand it, Hazou currently has 19 clone-blocks to work with. For max FOOM, he needs to run 7 clones and have everyone (including himself) loaded up with 80 chakra. 7 clones at once would cost 325 chakra, more than Hazou's total reserves, so he has to cast SC twice. Total cost to cast clones: 475 chakra. Then we need eight sets of 80 chakra to train, 640 chakra, for a total of 1115 chakra per day. With only 315 natural generation, Hazou runs a deficit of 800 chakra each day.
With the cost-halving water, Hazou casts all 7 clones in one go for a total of 162.5 chakra. Then we need eight sets of 40 chakra to train, 320 in total, for a total of 482.5 chakra per day. With 315 natural generation, Hazou runs a deficit of 167.5 chakra per day.
I'm telling you, this water is something else. I'm pretty sure Noburi could gather that much chakra from random rivers or something before we even joined Leaf, let alone what he could manage nowadays out in the open ocean. And you can shave off maybe 80 chakra from our daily needs if we regularly devote some of our clones to sealing instead, reducing our deficit to nearly-negligible levels. Heck, we could manage a respectable half-FOOM without Noburi if it came to that. With him, and with the magic water and some time spent on the open ocean, I'm sure we can make FOOM still work.
With the cost-halving water, Hazou casts all 7 clones in one go for a total of 162.5 chakra. Then we need eight sets of 40 chakra to train, 320 in total, for a total of 482.5 chakra per day. With 315 natural generation, Hazou runs a deficit of 167.5 chakra per day.
I'm telling you, this water is something else. I'm pretty sure Noburi could gather that much chakra from random rivers or something before we even joined Leaf, let alone what he could manage nowadays out in the open ocean. And you can shave off maybe 80 chakra from our daily needs if we regularly devote some of our clones to sealing instead, reducing our deficit to nearly-negligible levels. Heck, we could manage a respectable half-FOOM without Noburi if it came to that. With him, and with the magic water and some time spent on the open ocean, I'm sure we can make FOOM still work.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Do we know its halving?
....take Ino on the scroll hunt(as would be expected from our half of the scroll deal), then use that as an excuse to hire haruhisa to follow along and keep training us on the go?
That make the "going missing" bit much more awkward. We need to either recruit Ino and Haruhisa, or we give up valuable intel And paint a target on their backs(especially Ino's)
That make the "going missing" bit much more awkward. We need to either recruit Ino and Haruhisa, or we give up valuable intel And paint a target on their backs(especially Ino's)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Nah it's thirding
- Location
- Yes.
Or we kill them.
Bad for moral
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Oro gave us the location of a cave with magic water that opens your tenketsu and decreases your chakra expenditure on all non-summoning jutsu or something like that.
- Location
- Yes.
Good for convenient
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Seconded.
This is not intended as an absolute, irreversible decision. If the family refuses to join us, if the summons refuse to aid us, if the plan fails before we have a chance to carry it out, obviously we'd switch tactics.
But I do think having this vote is necessary to align us all going forward. If the answer is yes, then the following action plans would all have this goal in mind, the details would be about how to properly succeed. If the answer is no, then we can stop arguing about what the better choice is and cooperate in figuring out what we can still do from within leaf.
No competing yes or no action plans, no hedging our bets just in case we change our mind later. We need an answer now, and then the guys who disagree need to fall in line, cooperate instead of obstruct. Not saying there's been any obstructing, I just think having everybody on the same page here would be a good idea.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I could've sworn that we did, but this is the main WoG telling us about it:
And a cursory search does not reveal any WoGs clarifying just how much it reduces things.
Well, that's the benchmark if it halves the cost of non-Summoning jutsu, then. I note that virtually any discount allows us to skip the second cast of SC, reducing our deficit by 150 chakra, and it quickly scales down from there. A 25% discount, for instance, would still cut our deficit approximately in half to 400 chakra a day. I should maybe prepare a chart of how much FOOM we could afford with various projected Noburi incomes and chakra water discounts, but suffice it to say this water is still remarkably potent. Between the magic water, Noburi spending time grinding chakra, and some of our SC slots going to research, I'm sure we can at least get the majority of FOOM-value even while missing.
- Location
- Yes.
Um, I thought the plan was to camp in the Seventh Path with our return spot a mile above a random stretch of open ocean? As in, something where no evidence of our existence could possibly last more than a second?
...I feel like there needs to be a masterpost on the "go missing" plan, otherwise situations like this are going to keep cropping up.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Yes, this is part of what I'm talking about. We need to get everybody on the same page before moving forward. The very first step is not 'how' we do it, but whether its something we want to do at all. We've informally arrived at a reluctant answer, I'd like to formalize it to get rid of that reluctance. Hesitation is death.
- Location
- Yes.
I don't think we should formalize it, at least until the obvious steps are confirmed to be doable. Imagine a situation where Gamabunta refuses to let Noburi use the Toads if he goes missing; is it justifiable to continue going missing-nin, knowing that Noburi can't access the safety of the Seventh Path anymore? I don't think so, but others might disagree; and now we're right back where we started with whether we should go missing again or no.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Theres no point to really getting into the weeds until we confirm that our 7th Path allies are willing to play ball IMO. The clock just got a massive amount of time shaved off of it, and if they're unwilling to do anything for us on this front then we might be SOL on various ideas and implementations.