Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
[X] Action Plan: What's an Akatsuki Anyway?
@faflec Can you rephrase this
i also agree that i'd like to ask about the ritual specifically in addition to akatsuki's broad goals
@faflec Can you rephrase this
to something that more collaboratively solicits ideas from itachi on how to resolve it, instead of just saying it prevents hazou's cooperation? something like this
edit:
i also agree that i'd like to ask about the ritual specifically in addition to akatsuki's broad goals
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[X] Action Plan: Excited to Join Akatsuki, but Some Questions
Word count: ???
Word count: ???
- General:
- Maintain OPSEC on anything EM-related, FOOM, and ES/lithosealing.
- Be polite. Answer when prompted. Don't withhold information (modulo the above), but don't segue or waste Itachi's time with stuff he knows.
- Internally, Hazou is excited. He wants to join but has some concerns.
- Cons:
- Further cripples Dragonwar efforts.
- Leave Leaf and loved ones behind/endangers Goketsu.
- Pros:
- May be only way to stay part of Necromancy/save Akane.
- Best way to influence Pain.
- Was Pain right all along?
- Cons:
- Hazou has questions. Ask if Itachi can help answer them, in the form of a conversation.
- As a show of good faith. Tell itachi that there was enough of Kakuzu left for leaf to gather his remains, if he wants them.
- Hazou doesn't really know Pain's actual goals or Akatsuki's ideology.
- We spoke of him before, but only in vague terms. We want to truly understand him.
- What was the ritual about?
- Why do each of the other Akatsuki members work towards Pain's goals? Some of them don't seem to put a high priority on peace.
- Explain the Dragonwar, the dangers, and Hazou's status in it.
- If the Dragons break free, they may well consume us all before we can rescue Pain. And if Hazou leaves, it'll seriously hinder the war effort.
- This is why Kisame wanted embassies
- This is a real actual problem and he's not lying about it, just get in contact with Enma if you have concerns about that.
- Therefore, it would behoove Hazou -- and Akatsuki, even -- for him to be able to continue collaborating with Leaf on this front.
- Does Itachi have any suggestions for how to maintain this?
- If the intent is to dissapear him for that period of time, it is, therefore unworkable, but it's possible that you could do one of the following, depending on your considerations:
- Hire Hazou from Leaf as a long-term mission
- If the intent is to dissapear him for that period of time, it is, therefore unworkable, but it's possible that you could do one of the following, depending on your considerations:
- Can we even protect Clan Gokētsu from the fallout of Hazou leaving to join Akatsuki?
- A Clan Head of a new Clan going traitor endangers their futures and their lives, both of which we accepted responsibility over.
- Faking Hazou's death only does so much (especially given the Dragonwar).
- After the conversation finishes, say that you need some time to think.
- The answer to this will decide the future of everything you care about.
- End chapter to vote for actual answer.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Note that a Severe costs you 2xAB off your rolls. This is a big loss when your AB is high, which Hazō's Sealing AB is. On the other hand, it's not a big deal if your AB is 1, such as with Primordial Sealing.
Note that Itachi is not "dragging you", he's giving you a choice.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It is not.
Edit: To elaborate on this, Pain's name was always Pain in the Kishimoto canon, because it referred to Nagato's belief that making people understand each other's pain (by inflicting lots of it) was the way to achieve peace. "Pein" is the direct phonetic transliteration of what was on the Japanese manga page, presumably as made by scanlators who didn't yet know that it was meant to be the English word.
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Just FYI, EJ, this post is messing up the tally, whoever closes the vote (@Velorien?) will want to run it from the end of the last interlude rather than the default. I don't think anyone voted before voting was officially opened. So it should be fine.
Alternatively you could run the tally from post #236120, which is the first post after the deadline.
some potential issues.
itachi says certain information (like the ritual) he can only share if we join. not too big a deal, we can skip those parts.
itachi says oro is more useful than hazou on dragon war. hazou is talented yes, but still inferior to oro. keeping ES opsec means we can't use that to convince him of our importance. tricky to resolve. could on the next action plan reveal ES, along with the issues that has. or we could ask to leave some notes for Oro before we get read in on the akatsuki's secrets. but itachi will read any notes for potential leaks.
edit:
even if we reveal ES, we haven't actually infused a seal yet. hazou just claiming he can do it is pretty big claim. and itachi would be reluctant to let hazou do his first ever primordial infusion in front of him.
edit2:
what settings do the QMs use for username voting? do they tick the box
If selected, votes for [x] Username will count as a vote for the newest vote by Username; otherwise, they count as a vote for Username's plan at the time of posting.
?
itachi says certain information (like the ritual) he can only share if we join. not too big a deal, we can skip those parts.
itachi says oro is more useful than hazou on dragon war. hazou is talented yes, but still inferior to oro. keeping ES opsec means we can't use that to convince him of our importance. tricky to resolve. could on the next action plan reveal ES, along with the issues that has. or we could ask to leave some notes for Oro before we get read in on the akatsuki's secrets. but itachi will read any notes for potential leaks.
edit:
even if we reveal ES, we haven't actually infused a seal yet. hazou just claiming he can do it is pretty big claim. and itachi would be reluctant to let hazou do his first ever primordial infusion in front of him.
edit2:
what settings do the QMs use for username voting? do they tick the box
If selected, votes for [x] Username will count as a vote for the newest vote by Username; otherwise, they count as a vote for Username's plan at the time of posting.
?
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[X] Action Plan: What's an Akatsuki Anyway But With Dragons
Threnodist
occupying Haudenosaunee & Osage land she/her/hers
- Location
- Pittsburgh
[X] Action Plan: What's an Akatsuki Anyway But With Dragons
[jk] Tell Itachi That We'll Join Him Once He Achieves A New Tier of Crab
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] Action Plan: Dragons Make Everything Complicated
- Overriding constraint: EM, FOOM, and lithosealing OPSEC
- Tone: polite, but honest. Treat Itachi as an informed intellectual and don't waste his time.
- Before we make a decision, there are a couple things that we'd like to know, and that you'd need to know.
- Have a discussion about Pain's philosophy and goals. Be earnest, engage with it as genuine philosophical discourse.
- Last time, there were parts we wouldn't understand. This time, we'd like to try.
- Outline the Dragonwar and our role within it. Answer any clarifying questions Itachi has.
- We seriously believe that this is a real existential threat, and so has Asuma, Orochimaru, and Enma when they each visited Arachnid to see for themselves. If our testimony doesn't carry enough weight, you can visit Arachnid yourself or talk to one of them to become more confident.
- Hazou's heard that the Crows once helped humans defeat souldrinkers. If that's true, their help could be invaluable for vanquishing the Dragons. Offer what help we can provide for the Crows making contact with Arachnid or the Conclave.
- The Conclave is intertwined with Hazou's personal reputation and his relations with the other Leaf summoners. He needs to remain in the good graces of everyone present to maximise odds of success.
- It's already distressing enough that it's taken so long, with multiple dragons already on the loose.
- Thus our question: is there a way for us to join Akatsuki without compromising the Dragonwar? Publicly going missing or faking our death would both significantly hinder efforts.
- If Itachi needs suggestions for options, Hazou could be "hired" on a long-term mission, or invited as a "diplomatic envoy".
- If Itachi vetos all plausibly viable alternatives, then we must decline, as we're more needed here where we can help the Seventh Path.
- However, we have one request before you go. When you get Pain back, when world peace is secure and it's safe to start resurrecting other people… please, save our family. Rescuing them is the whole reason we started work on necromancy.
- If there are workable routes Itachi might accept, we take a moment to think about them. End chapter to vote for actual answer.
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- Location
- Yes.
Given the flow of the rest of your plan, I feel this section should be left out. I can't imagine us saying No after a method presents itself since it seems to build up to us wanting to say yes.
- Location
- Pacific standard
Okay guys, today I'm going to be putting together two plans. The first claims the bounty and will be my primary focus, the second won't. Both will have the primary game plan of
1. Accept - BUT
2. Make Akatsuki rezzing Jiraiya and DRAGONWAR conditions for joining
3. Get Tsunade's stamp of approval for the mission
I'll be updating as I have time through the day.
[X] Action plan: Manic-Pixie-Dream-Brother
Word count: ?
Tone - beginning resigned, sarcastic, then increasingly excited as Hazō really thinks about it. Hazō has been wasting SO MUCH EFFORT worrying about working around the Akatsuki, and now they might be his allies. The only thing in the way of Hazō getting everything he needs is trust, and you can choose to trust.
Joining will never work if there's a shred of doubt in either parties mind. Hazō thinks back to meeting Kagome, and strives for the same honesty.
Claim the bounty, then negotiate down to mutual assistance with searching for Jiraiya and Pain, giving them equal priority.
There's too much important stuff going on for Hazō to fake his death, and Akatsuki needs to set a precedent for working with Village specialists at some point anyways. The only way for everyone to get what they want is to communicate clearly and openly.
Itachi wants his family back. (Pain, Kakuzu)
Hazō wants his family back. (Akane, Jiraiya)
Tsunade wants Leaf stable, for people to stop fricken dying, and a fun gambling table.
Akatsuki buying Hazō's research labor as an S rank mission and Leaf having access to Akatsuki punching power for the Dragon fights neatly solves all three.
[] Action Plan: the Will of Fire
Tone - contemplative, wistful.
1. Accept - BUT
2. Make Akatsuki rezzing Jiraiya and DRAGONWAR conditions for joining
3. Get Tsunade's stamp of approval for the mission
I'll be updating as I have time through the day.
[X] Action plan: Manic-Pixie-Dream-Brother
Word count: ?
Tone - beginning resigned, sarcastic, then increasingly excited as Hazō really thinks about it. Hazō has been wasting SO MUCH EFFORT worrying about working around the Akatsuki, and now they might be his allies. The only thing in the way of Hazō getting everything he needs is trust, and you can choose to trust.
Joining will never work if there's a shred of doubt in either parties mind. Hazō thinks back to meeting Kagome, and strives for the same honesty.
Claim the bounty, then negotiate down to mutual assistance with searching for Jiraiya and Pain, giving them equal priority.
There's too much important stuff going on for Hazō to fake his death, and Akatsuki needs to set a precedent for working with Village specialists at some point anyways. The only way for everyone to get what they want is to communicate clearly and openly.
Itachi wants his family back. (Pain, Kakuzu)
Hazō wants his family back. (Akane, Jiraiya)
Tsunade wants Leaf stable, for people to stop fricken dying, and a fun gambling table.
Akatsuki buying Hazō's research labor as an S rank mission and Leaf having access to Akatsuki punching power for the Dragon fights neatly solves all three.
[] Action Plan: the Will of Fire
Tone - contemplative, wistful.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I'm confused. Originally, I wanted to just have this be a binary "if no, stay. If yes, join" decision in the plan, but you convinced me to not have Hazou join up without another vote. But at the same time, there are clearly things that disqualify joining from consideration (like Itachi saying "unfortunately, no, the only way route we're offering is fake-your-death"), and I think it's fair to have that conditional in the plan. Especially when a major part of why I wrote this plan is one of the lines you'd have me cut, the plea to have Akatsuki rescue our family if they win.
And what you seem to be concerned about here, that the plan seems to build up to us wanting to say yes (in some scenarios), I don't see how that changes if we remove the lines at the bottom. Wouldn't your concern actually be solved by changes higher up in the plan?
I'm not averse to making changes that keep the next vote feeling more neutral, but I don't think what you proposed is the right way to do it. Maybe I could add something more to the "if yes" section to sway it more neutral, or add something like your Pros and Cons section up above to show how Hazou is conflicted here?
[] Action Plan: Dragons Make Everything Complicated
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- Location
- Pacific standard
Yeah, it's been a long day. No, I don't expect it to be easy.
Well that was his opener to a clan council full of aggressive people who want him dead. Different context. Additionally, now Itachi knows that if he wants Hazō fully on-board he needs to. We're leaning on Itachi so he'll take heat from Tsunade for this ask. No, he won't want to. Yes, I do still think he will.
Itachi already gave the ground of "we're okay letting you chill in leaf, just don't mess with us". Anything that happens now is fully driven by his wants. That's a really good position for Hazō to be in, for negotiating.
Couple things,
1. Saying final offer with your first offer is a sales tactic meant to bully scared people who don't know their options. Huh look at the situation.
2. We're not doing that, unless Tsunade orders us to as part of the mission.
3. By actually talking about the existential threat? How else? Like even ignoring the rest of the situation we've been day dreaming about setting Akatsuki against the Dragons basically ever since they were introduced!
If Itachi just backhands us for talking back? Okay, default to chilling in Leaf.
If Tsunade goes "No wtf dude" and refuses to hear us out, we default to chilling in Leaf.
[X] Action plan: Manic-Pixie-Dream-Brother
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
Damn, I guess no one's gonna ask to bring our family with us.