- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The Good Tier Shit that isn't publicly available due to opsec reasons.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Idk. The way these things go I just expected to not get anything interesting or useful out of it, but shrug
Earth jutsu for Hazou and water jutsu for Noburi (maybe wind jutsu for Kei?). They're just higher quality than average, it was sort of a consolation prize for trapping Akane/Noburi in Leaf for living strategic resource reasons.
And also maybe just to see if Hazou would break more jutsu lmao
- Location
- Yes.
I'm generally in favor of this, but without the conditional "if yes, agree" part: the information we gain may be interpreted by the hivemind in a different way than Hazou, so we should have an update to decide our future direction anyway.
- Location
- Pacific standard
See, I think Akatsuki is going to need primordial sealing at some point anyways. In the real world, the first solution that works is usually used forever.
They're on the road to be the solution to world peace. Okay, cool. On this planet, that includes centuries old magic infrastructure accessible only via teleportation. It's easier to train astronauts to be miners etc.
Well that's a troubling feeling, any way I can help you resolve it? Maybe if you were a bit more specific.
Tsunade is already having a dump of new head of state duties dumped on her - shika has likely been filling her in on various other top secret projects for the past 6 hours. We need to solve the Dragons and Conclave. She wants to focus on Leaf for her very short term as Hokage, then abdicate and go get drunk.
Is there any of that you disagree with? Is there any of it you do agree with? Details?
Honestly, if we can get away without giving Itachi an answer in the next update, then yeah, agreed. I was assuming that he expects a Y/N answer immediately.
My only add right now to anyone writing the plan would be in the 2nd bullet point, our Dragonwar contribution. I'd want some language to Itachi that we are worried our involvement/contribution to the Coalition would be directly threatened if we were declared traitors on the Human path. Because we are on thin ice with many of the Clan Bosses after the Pangolin "betrayal". He might be inclined to intimidate/convince Tsunade/Leaf for us to leave without being deemed traitors.
Or if he isn't sympathetic, I guess we maybe gotta betray everyone and save the world and get jonin aura at last.
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As I already said, I don't expect to convince them.
Also, I disagree that we need significantly more than half. Informal checks and balance means it's all case by case and dependent on how much people care about things, and a minority might be enough. Ex: imagine tsunade declaring hazou missing nin and a single clan saying. No, I don't care what you say.
- Location
- Yes.
Oh, please do not mistake me. I definitely do not think we are leaving the room without answering Itachi. I just hope we can end the update with the infodump, and then give our answer.
I do not mistake you good sir, but the answer could hopefully happen in a separate update entitled "The Room of Treasonous Requirements Part Duex".
- Location
- UK
FWIW my omake wasn't all in jest; I legit would support an update where Hazō said "I'd love to join an organization like Akatsuki if I really could believe it was my best chance of doing good in the world, but before that happens I'd have to see you act credible, and right now, from where I'm sitting... you're just not."
(dw, I also understand this is never going to get traction.)
- Location
- Yes.
Do not tempt fate.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
HAZOU: Like, you say you believe in world peace and saving humanity but do you ever just like feed some hungry people or something
ITACHI:
HAZOU: Or idk, wall up hamlets so monsters stop eating the inhabitants
ITACHI:
HAZOU: Or idk, treat sick people- hey, didn't Pain say that was like the only ethical use of chakra anyways? Are all of you medics?
ITACHI:
HAZOU: Or idk, advocate for the villages you're mediating to invest in peacetime skills
ITACHI:
HAZOU: Or idk, make village nin do some kinda foreign exchange so they become accustomed to each others cultures and stop wanting to kill each other
ITACHI:
HAZOU: Have you ever done, uh, anything? That wasn't killing people? To achieve peace?
ITACHI: Well, sometimes we merely threaten to kill people.
HAZOU:
ITACHI: Sometimes we kill some monsters...
HAZOU:
ITACHI: Okay yeah maybe we need to do some self reflection
- Location
- UK
I'll tempt fate if it works!
- Location
- UK
Of course that's not because there's anything wrong with setting prices at market rate, it's just it implies that they're really economically inefficient at clearing areas of land, and we sort of have standards for our business partners.
I'm reposting my own post from the discord. I had a thought on how not really bad being cut off from our sanity checkers/social hyperoptimizers would be from a convincing Pain viewpoint (if we joined)
- Does it really matter if we get socially dominated before resurrecting Pain? Like, we're going to be focused on sealing, building our understand of Akatsuki's individual members, and overall growing a lot as an individual in such a hostile environment (maybe put some inevitable bonus xp points into Social though).
- And the hive mind can plot. Then when Pain comes back, we can interact with him, return to connecting with our family/Leaf (per Itachi's statement, assuming they don't kill us), and work on convincing him/building rapport.
- In the hypothetical opposite extreme example, Hazo was a social genius plus sealing genius all along and joins Akatsuki to resurrect Pain, how much does his social genius matter while Pain is still dead? He's the only one we need to convince with a hyperoptimized plan, and we'll probably have an opportunity to.
- Also, Hazo thinking and planning the conversation/tactics to take with Pain weeks/months in advance whenever hes not socializing with Akatsuki or sealing would count for a lot right? Like when hes lying awake at night, missing Ino, worrying about everything, he can rehearse and game out scenarios in his head right? Sounds a bit like "social optimization" in a realistic simulationist environment. Usually we get taken by surprise by S-rankers holding our nuts to the fire in conversation, but we'd be prepared this time.
"I won't go missing from Leaf, but if you tell Tsunade 'I'm borrowing Gouketsu for some AMITY-related seal research.' it's not like she can really say no."
- Location
- Washington, USA
I agree. Straightforward way to pitch it to Tsunade might be "I have reason to believe that Akane, Jiraya, and some other people are less dead than we thought. After looking over my dimensionalism research, Akatsuki has offered to hire me for a rescue mission, in my capacity as Leaf's best sealmaster. Please approve it and send them the bill."
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
[] Action Plan: The EV of This Intervention Is Net Negative
- Take a deep breath. This'll be harrowing.
- Tone: one of reluctant inevitability. This is suicidal behavior, yet it needs to be done.
- Intro:
- You have severe misgivings about working with the Akatsuki. And they're rooted deeply in the... "S-ranker culture," let's call it.
- Itachi just apologized to a physically inferior person. You don't mean to sound patronizing, but that is... an act of almost unprecedented sanity, for an essie.
- Thus, you'll try to talk to him like to a person in turn, instead of like to a dangerous, unpredictable mechanism.
- To be clear: this isn't you perceiving the apology as a show of vulnerability to be exploited. You don't want to punish that, you're not about to launch into another needlessly hurtful rant. If you do, if any of your points seem unfair to Itachi... Well, killing you over private unkindness is still uncalled-for, but as they say, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
- There is, however, more perspective you'd like to share. Itachi may or may not find it informative, but he'd just shown he'd be able to hear what you're saying at all.
- Micro-scale:
- By now, you've interacted face-to-face with a lot of essies. Common patterns crop up. One of them is, as Itachi himself noted, a certain self-blinding social isolation. Essies tend to squish people who annoy them, so over time, they end up surrounded by yes-men. Even their peers are wary of crossing them.
- It's a natural defense mechanism. Against an essie, psychological and social warfare is often the only tool that can work, so developing a personality that instinctively crushes any attempt to offend you is understandable. You're also told it's somehow relevant to becoming a jounin at all.
- But it has clear downsides. The inability to draw on a wide pool of advisors, for one. Blind spots around any mistakes essies make systematically, since they become part of their mythos, and people steer clear of pointing them out. A certain tunnel-vision, which, paradoxically, makes essies more predictable and manipulable.
- And it's hurt their agenda. Was AMITY really something they couldn't come up with on their own? Yes, the geopolitical situation was just right for it to be created, but could the Akatsuki really not have arranged something similar, with all their power? If they actually applied their full creativity to the task, instead of sticking to their grooves?
- Even this conversation. You're making a good-faith effort to provide Itachi information you think he might find useful. Itachi has the skills to read you like an open book: he knows you're not manipulating him, not waging psywar, not socially undermining him. Is it reasonable for you to be scared for your life?
- Really, you're half-expecting to be end up as a smear on a wall within a week of entering Rain. Even if you try not to do suicidal stuff like what you're doing now, you'd probably end up saying a wrong word to someone, and, well. They'd end up one world-class researcher poorer.
- Macro-scale:
- You are, thus, wary of assisting people like that take the future (whether you can have any meaningful impact on that or not).
- By all accounts, Pain was— is different. An idealist, someone with a vision of a better world; someone who took care to minimize bloodshed even at the last moment. But you haven't met him, and you won't speculate about his personality.
- You'll only talk about what you did see: the rest of Akatsuki. Itachi just broke the mold, but up until like ten minutes ago, they've all been the most typical of essies.
- You are wary of the world they'd build. Even if it doesn't involve actual tyranny, you expect them to run roughshod over people. They'd establish some world order they think is right for everyone, but without asking the actual people affected. And even if they do ask, the people will be too terrified to offer any real criticism.
- That goes double if Pain cannot be rescued. Neither of you wants to contemplate the possibility, but it's possible the resurrection research just won't work.
- Can Itachi point out how these concerns of yours are unfounded? You'd love to be wrong.
[] Action Plan: The EV of This Intervention Is Net Negative
- Take a deep breath. This'll be harrowing.
- Tone: one of reluctant inevitability. This is suicidal behavior, yet it needs to be done.
- Intro:
- You have severe misgivings about working with the Akatsuki. And they're rooted deeply in the... "S-ranker culture," let's call it.
- Itachi just apologized to a physically inferior person. You don't mean to sound patronizing, but that is... an act of almost unprecedented sanity, for an essie.
- Thus, you'll try to talk to him like to a person in turn, instead of like to a dangerous, unpredictable mechanism.
- To be clear: this isn't you perceiving the apology as a show of vulnerability to be exploited. You don't want to punish that, you're not about to launch into another needlessly hurtful rant. If you do, if any of your points seem unfair to Itachi... Well, killing you over private unkindness is still uncalled-for, but as they say, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
- There is, however, more perspective you'd like to share. Itachi may or may not find it informative, but he'd just shown he'd be able to hear what you're saying at all.
- Micro-scale:
- By now, you've interacted face-to-face with a lot of essies. Common patterns crop up. One of them is, as Itachi himself noted, a certain self-blinding social isolation. Essies tend to squish people who annoy them, so over time, they end up surrounded by yes-men. Even their peers are wary of crossing them.
- It's a natural defense mechanism. Against an essie, psychological and social warfare is often the only tool that can work, so developing a personality that instinctively crushes any attempt to offend you is understandable. You're also told it's somehow relevant to becoming a jounin at all.
- But it has clear downsides. The inability to draw on a wide pool of advisors, for one. Blind spots around any mistakes essies make systematically, since they become part of their mythos, and people steer clear of pointing them out. A certain tunnel-vision, which, paradoxically, makes essies more predictable and manipulable.
- And it's hurt their agenda. Was AMITY really something they couldn't come up with on their own? Yes, the geopolitical situation was just right for it to be created, but could the Akatsuki really not have arranged something similar, with all their power? If they actually applied their full creativity to the task, instead of sticking to their grooves?
- Even this conversation. You're making a good-faith effort to provide Itachi information you think he might find useful. Itachi has the skills to read you like an open book: he knows you're not manipulating him, not waging psywar, not socially undermining him. Is it reasonable for you to be scared for your life?
- Really, you're half-expecting to be end up as a smear on a wall within a week of entering Rain. Even if you try not to do suicidal stuff like what you're doing now, you'd probably end up saying a wrong word to someone, and, well. They'd end up one world-class researcher poorer.
- Macro-scale:
- You are, thus, wary of assisting people like that take the future (whether you can have any meaningful impact on that or not).
- By all accounts, Pain was— is different. An idealist, someone with a vision of a better world; someone who took care to minimize bloodshed even at the last moment. But you haven't met him, and you won't speculate about his personality.
- You'll only talk about what you did see: the rest of Akatsuki. Itachi just broke the mold, but up until like ten minutes ago, they've all been the most typical of essies.
- You are wary of the world they'd build. Even if it doesn't involve actual tyranny, you expect them to run roughshod over people. They'd establish some world order they think is right for everyone, but without asking the actual people affected. And even if they do ask, the people will be too terrified to offer any real criticism.
- That goes double if Pain cannot be rescued. Neither of you wants to contemplate the possibility, but it's possible the resurrection research just won't work.
- Can Itachi point out how these concerns of yours are unfounded? You'd love to be wrong.
Ten thousand percent do not utter the word "essie" in front of one.
revoking my vote for this plan if it doesn't use "essie" in front of one
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Thanks, that's a very fair point! I'll be sure to consider replacing it with an appropriately respectful "S-ranker" when I'll be trying to vote that plan in for real!
- Location
- Washington, USA
We don't need to talk to Tsunade personally. Itachi could request the mission himself through the standard channels, in part as a symbolic gesture of renormalizing diplomatic relations now that satisfactory restitution was agreed on.
Did they not notice the part where he already did that? Twice, actually, though admittedly following Mari out of Hidden Swamp wasn't exactly announced to everyone at an international event. Big part of how he already changed the world was a legal precedent for former missing-nin joining Leaf. Are they asking him to change that part back?
Sasori getting our sealing research doesn't have to mean that we'll lose the necromancy race.
It just means that we'll lose if we stick to the safe low-variance route.
All we need is a seal-user on the other side of the rift and we can do necromancy right now.
Now, the question is: if Hazou dies(or we sacrifice someone else), will they be able to activate a seal on the other side?
If we have at least a smidgen of chakra we can activate a seal. If not, a deceased Noburi could catch the chakra the our family is pushing through the rift scar.
Risky? Absolutely. But if it works, it'll be fast.
We still have options to try to win this race.
We can also try this with a Final Gift Program volunteer, terminal patient, ect.
It just means that we'll lose if we stick to the safe low-variance route.
All we need is a seal-user on the other side of the rift and we can do necromancy right now.
Now, the question is: if Hazou dies(or we sacrifice someone else), will they be able to activate a seal on the other side?
If we have at least a smidgen of chakra we can activate a seal. If not, a deceased Noburi could catch the chakra the our family is pushing through the rift scar.
Risky? Absolutely. But if it works, it'll be fast.
We still have options to try to win this race.
We can also try this with a Final Gift Program volunteer, terminal patient, ect.
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