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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Inferno Vulpix said:
And what you seem to be concerned about here, that the plan seems to build up to us wanting to say yes (in some scenarios), I don't see how that changes if we remove the lines at the bottom. Wouldn't your concern actually be solved by changes higher up in the plan?
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The alternative to me would be to make this plan like a brainstorming session with Itachi to figure out ways for Hazou to join Akatsuki without destabilizing the Dragonwar, and let the players decide if those ways would work (yes) or not (no).
 
FWIW remember that approximately all the magic observation is currently pointed at Itachi. I'm not sure how much I trust OPSEC right now.
 
[X] Action Plan: Dragons Make Everything Complicated

I sorta like the pixie plan if it would succeed. But I don't think we could convince itachi/tsunade. And more importantly, I think trying would reduce the chances of more viable approaches from succeed afterwards. The only way I could see it succeeding is if we convince itachi to let Ami join this meeting right now, and even then that's risky

Edit:
So finding pain in the afterlife will probably require us to question the other folks we find. And those folks will probably demand to be revived as payment. Maybe instead of demanding jiraiya specially. We brainstorm how to deal with all those dead folks?
Edit: man this is why all the villages cooperating on the rift would be best. The dead would see this and would lend their aid instead of infighting. But there's too much risk that one of the villages tries to sabotage the rift and then no one gets resurrected ever
 
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@faflec @RandomOTP I'd suggest making it a point for Hazou to avoid associating the ritual with the Great Seal or the dragons as another disclaimer. It might bring up a negative association with Pein.

RandomOTP said:
Mood:
  • Maintain OPSEC on anything EM-related, FOOM, and ES/lithosealing.
  • Be polite. Answer when prompted. Don't withhold information, but don't segue or waste Itachi's time with stuff he knows.
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RandomOTP said:
Explain:
  • They're breaking free of a failing Sage-crafted 3D seal.
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3D sealing doesnt necessarily point to ES/Lithoseals, but maybe simply calling the GS a Sage-artifact is more better.
RandomOTP said:
Winning the Dragonwar requires repairing/remaking the Great Seal, or killing scores of clan-killing abominations.
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Hazou's not saying this verbatim, but it wont hurt to rephrase this to convey the apocalyptic threat dragons represent.
 
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faflec said:
The alternative to me would be to make this plan like a brainstorming session with Itachi to figure out ways for Hazou to join Akatsuki without destabilizing the Dragonwar, and let the players decide if those ways would work (yes) or not (no).
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Hmmm, would it help if I was more clear about "if Itachi does not endorse any route that's even hypothetically viable" as the 'no' condition? Like, the main use case I'm expecting here is that Itachi isn't willing to change the deal (maybe he wasn't given latitude to do that by the rest of Akatsuki, maybe he thinks every Akatsuki member should know the pain of abandoning their homes, etc.) with a dash of "Itachi shoots down all of Hazou's options".

That is to say, what if that section looked like this:
  • If Itachi vetos all plausibly viable alternatives, then we must decline, as we're more needed here where we can help the Seventh Path.
    • However, we have one request before you go. When you get Pain back, when world peace is secure and it's safe to start resurrecting other people… please, save our family. Rescuing them is the whole reason we started work on necromancy.
  • If there are workable routes Itachi might accept, we need time to discuss them. End chapter to vote for actual answer.
Would that sway the tone in the direction you're aiming for?
 
Relayed to me by The Bomb: Remember the Karasu? The previous Crow Summoners that fought souldrinkers with lore given by Karanium? If the Crow Boss really does have valuable anti-souldrinker lore, then we should definitely get the Crows involved in the Dragonwar to help us kill some souldrinkers.

I propose that, during our discussion of the Dragonwar, we bring up what we heard about Karanium and suggest a direct collaboration between Crow and Arachnid. Geographically speaking, Crow is closer to Arachnid than the Conclave (and isn't invited in the first place) so this should maximize the ability for Karanium to contribute to the Crusade when it arrives, I believe.

How about a line like "Hazou's heard that Karanium once helped humans defeat souldrinkers, the support of the Crows could be invaluable for the Dragonwar. Offer what help we can provide in setting up collaboration with the Crows."? Something like this could go in any plan that discusses the Dragonwar.
 
Rafin said:
[X] Action Plan: What's an Akatsuki Anyway But With Dragons


Talking isn't a free action. Remember when we proposed peaceful trade to Asuma?
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I'm afraid I don't see your point. If we could only put free actions in plans we'd have never left the swamp.

Yeah! Tsunade might get mad and whip out her aura! Hazō'll have to grin and bear it.


I cannot imagine the situation devolving into violence after we tell Itachi we tentatively agree, especially with Hazō there actively deescalating. If you can please share how, and I'll workshop a way around it.

Even in Tsunade's office! If we get there, it means either Itachi trusts us enough to have a quick convo alone, or he's bought in and along for the ride. Hazō being a brat and mouthing off is one thing, Hazō magically making S rankers do things you like while mouthing off is another.


One final point, every Hokage since the 3rd has had to deal with Tsunade wandering around being a menace. She could use a taste of her own medicine ^_^
 
So my very basic understanding of the top three votes rn are that they're very similar in that they all say 'no because dragons and clan safety and such, otherwise yes because necromancy is cool'

what are the major differences? As somebody who would, overall, like to stay with the established characters in leaf and compete with akatsuki instead of joining them, which vote should I be lending weight towards? I'm busy elsewhere to be spending time going through pages of discussion, but this is an important vote that I shouldn't ignore.
 
redzonejoe said:
So my very basic understanding of the top three votes rn are that they're very similar in that they all say 'no because dragons and clan safety and such, otherwise yes because necromancy is cool'

what are the major differences? As somebody who would, overall, like to stay with the established characters in leaf and compete with akatsuki instead of joining them, which vote should I be lending weight towards? I'm busy elsewhere to be spending time going through pages of discussion, but this is an important vote that I shouldn't ignore.
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Good question, but if you want something else, consider making your own vote.
I think the best popular vote for you is @Rafin 's "what's an akatsuki" which is just politely asking Itachi from more value info about the akatsuki.

Or start a vote for something like:
[ ] Action Plan: Politely Refuse
  • Politely refuse Itachi.
 
we could also ask akatsuki to drop a message to aunti ren that hazou and akatsuki want her to help with the great seal. This might prevent oro from kidnapping her and sparking amity violation of caught, a risk asuma may have found worth it

Edit:
There is a risk that itachi loses patience if we ask his help with crows, or auntie ren. Although helps if we frame it as more help you give to great seal more we are willing to come.

Edit2: we could also conditionally bring them up only if itachi seems convinced the great seal is a threat and isn't just appeasing hazou so hazou joins
 
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Left-Hand Mutant said:
Good question, but if you want something else, consider making your own vote.
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Because this is such an important vote, I feel it is very important not to waste my vote on something nobody else would be supporting. If there was broad appeal for the 'politely refuse' vote, I wouldn't have to be the person creating it.
Left-Hand Mutant said:
I think the best popular vote for you is @Rafin 's "what's an akatsuki" which is just politely asking Itachi from more value info about the akatsuki.
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Why would you recommend this vote over faflec's more popular version that includes dragons?
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Hmmm, would it help if I was more clear about "if Itachi does not endorse any route that's even hypothetically viable" as the 'no' condition? Like, the main use case I'm expecting here is that Itachi isn't willing to change the deal (maybe he wasn't given latitude to do that by the rest of Akatsuki, maybe he thinks every Akatsuki member should know the pain of abandoning their homes, etc.) with a dash of "Itachi shoots down all of Hazou's options".

That is to say, what if that section looked like this:
  • If Itachi vetos all plausibly viable alternatives, then we must decline, as we're more needed here where we can help the Seventh Path.
    • However, we have one request before you go. When you get Pain back, when world peace is secure and it's safe to start resurrecting other people… please, save our family. Rescuing them is the whole reason we started work on necromancy.
  • If there are workable routes Itachi might accept, we need time to discuss them. End chapter to vote for actual answer.
Would that sway the tone in the direction you're aiming for?
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This seems reasonable, though I'd ask for clarification on "we need time to discuss them". Who is the "we" in this scenario?
 
Velorien said:
Where did you get that idea?
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Was more "threat" than "agreement" at the time, but that seems like a rather petty distinction in a diplomatic context where Hidan just "lawfully arrested" Asuma by scything him in half. Leveraging the veneer of professionalism and legitimacy, which we know Itachi cares about, might be a better immediate tactic than acting like all this stuff with the dragons is intrinsically more important than resurrecting Pain, which his gut reaction might be to dismiss.
 
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