- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Was this a dig from the priest, or a genuine statement of commendation?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Ahhhh, yes. I see my hopes were too high.
Couple of suggestions there, edits in bold.
I'm happy to help with WC tonight.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If you're reading 'holier than thou' I don't know what to say to you. I'm upset and frustrated, because what's being proposed is...again, I don't have the words while remaining civil.
What's proposed was bad. It was inconsistent with our characterization and stated goals.
I'm not going to act like all opinions are created equal. If someone started seriously advocating for genocide I hope everyone would come down on them pretty hard, even if it was 'just their opinion'.
If these are additions, I'm happy to include them, if you can find space. As it is, the plan is either at 299 or 298.
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Posted w/ edits, lines I changed should be in bold. (If I remembered)
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
That's a gross simplification of the entire situation. They're annoying...because they're being hypocrites and threatening to walk out and spread clan secrets, something that effects the livelihood and survivability of the clan, just so that they don't have to...share jutsu, which help the clan and its people survive.
Spreading clan secrets is already, in this setting, a killable offense. And they're all but saying they want to.
We are. We're in the update like not disputing her words acting like we do care about everyone the same, but it's false, and she's right. We don't hold everyone to the same level of importance. If we were more upfront about it, maybe it would lessen this lashing out.
And she's not reasonable at all because a clan head doesn't need to take time to introduce himself to literally everyone, especially people with no known grievances, and especially when the clan head is also wearing like three different hats (sealmaster, war room strategist, etc.)
To the clan mostly, because of rank which is just...how things work. Contributors are more important. "Us" is Hazou.
You literally said here what I said. That Akane was more important.
You pretty much just made up a bunch of stuff. I said to let them know that yes, Akane is more important to us, and yes so is Noburi and Mari. How that turned to 0 compassion, empathy, and support boggles the mind.
No, you said that. Just now. I suggested that since she had the audacity to basically tell us she's going to leave and spread clan secrets, while yelling at us, and flinging serious accusations at us, we should thus dispose of her as is the norms of this setting.
Which is a thing you seem to be forgetting. The context of my posts are according to the setting of the story/quest we're reading. You're the only one trying to bring parallels to real life.
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Gross oversimplification or not, it fits.
Also, killing ninja for spreading clan secrets legally is not punishable by death. Clans who suspect that their members might defect commit murders with plausible deniability and the Hokage hasn't cared up until now.
No, we aren't. Point to anything where we said or communicated that we felt that her sister was as important to us as to her. Failing to dispute an accusation is not admitting to it.
And, again, in my plan (currently winning) we say to Mari and Kei that we, personally, don't grieve the loss of her sister the way she did, in the same way she didn't grieve Akane like us. This is fine! We mourned them both as dead clanmates, but we're going to mourn Akane in a bunch of other ways, too.
Our clan is tiny and spending an hour with each new member isn't unreasonable, especially given that the adoptions were such a big deal. More to the point, Hazo might be wearing three hats, but his days are five times as long.
You're right that we don't need to, but it seems pretty rude not to, and Hazo generally tries not to be rude, especially to his subordinates. Being adopted into a clan isn't like getting hired: it's being made part of someone's family. We credibly neglected our siblings. Nieces and nephews? Cousins? Whatever.
Contributors to what? In what sense are they more important? How are you measuring importance?
No, I said that she was more useful in a military capacity. If you think 'useful in a military capacity' is a synonym for 'important', then I don't have much to say, other than to point out that you're objectively incorrect and that I'd appreciate it if you started using words in manners which align with their conventional definitions.
No, I didn't make a bunch of stuff up: I slightly rephrased things you said.
No, you said that. Literally. See below:
What you literally said is that you suggest we take a certain course of action ("we should") which is to murder Mio ("disappear Mio") for lashing out, due to unprocessed grief and trauma ("the audacity").
"We should take the actions that Hiashi Hyuga and Hagoromo Ritsuo would take" does not a compelling argument make.
Do you think Ino would do that, or approve of it? Akane? Hiruzen? Tsunade? Any characters who have been portrayed as being morally upstanding?
'she accused us of stuff, we should murder her' is advocating for either disproportionate punishment or punishment before the crime, both of which are
- things that Asuma would disapprove of
- things that would prove her right re: our abusing her
- things that are probably against the letter of Leaf's laws. We know Leaf operates under the presumption of innocence
Yes, and even within this setting, we try to act in alignment with our principles - which include compassion for pretty damn near everyone no matter how irredeemable they may seem. That's the entire point of the quest - to make a better world, which is in line with our modern moral sensibilities.
You're defending the indefensible. This is something you do not infrequently. Plenty of people have commented on it.
If the things you suggest are frequently radically different from what you'd suggest someone do in real life, you should start being clear about that: I suspect you'd find people friendlier and more willing to engage with you.
For example, if in this case, you recognize that we're dealing with a traumatized teenager who is lashing out because her only living family member died and she's fixed on us as the target for her misplaced grief because it seems safe for her to do so, because she views us as a safe enough person to be angry around, probably because she's seen us be kind and understanding to people like her, and if this were real life, you'd suggest getting her in therapy and supporting her so she can work through her shit, say that.
Bluntly suggesting we murder her for no greater crime than being angry and perhaps implying she'll take action which indirectly threatens us (it doesn't actually hurt us that badly if our jutsu get out; at any rate, you were all for sharing jutsu in your post) and stating that she's worth less than other characters makes you sound pretty monstrous. That is indeed how what you wrote reads, and it's in keeping with what I'd generally expect you to say. If that isn't reflective of who you are and what you believe, making attempts to communicate who you are and what you believe might be an idea.
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In the plan, this is placed after the sealing section, which is possibly a huge problem, because the QMs have historically tended to write plans in order, top to bottom, and dealing with the Mio situation needs to happen immediately, not after 10 days of sealing. In fact, I'd prefer if there were no sealing section at all so that we have the option to take action quickly in Thursday's update.
You're right about the first part
Absolute heresy on the second. The Sealing must flow
In terms of in-game time, it doesn't slow us down much to take a day or two off sealing (and in fact I think this is a good idea for Hazou's sanity). In terms of real-life time, or the ratio of progress made per update, I think it's a good idea to make sure our problems are solved reasonably comprehensively as soon as possible, and we can do some longer updates or a timeskip later.
We're losing time on Necromancy by doing that and I cannot support that. I wasn't really a fan of doing the bandit mission for that reason. I thought we'd take care of that while still healing from SSA.
If it's so urgent we can do it via SC and not FOOM that day or something.
The thing I'm worried about is that the next update will reveal some information we'd like to act on ASAP, but the update covers 10 days and we can't go back in time come Thursday's update.
That's the consensus plan, but I think MS8.1 might also do it.
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'll shuffle the ordering and maybe add in some language to make the order clear.
I trust the QMs to end things early if something comes up. Simultaneously, I trust Kei and Mari to handle this now that we're flagging it as a problem.
Yep - the plan specifies as such, I think. The intention is to get to six uses and then just crank the bonus until it challenges us.
I'll fold this in this evening (PST evening; it's ~5 PM as I'm making this post.)
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped Is Hazou expected to do more purification rituals, or is he how considered purified and doesn't need to do more?
Would there be any legal concerns with independently researching a seal which does the same thing as Harumitsu's Cold Seal?
Would there be any legal concerns with independently researching a seal which does the same thing as Harumitsu's Cold Seal?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
tossing this out there. It's a thread I'd like to follow up
[X] Strangers from Distant Lands
Word Count: 260
[X] Strangers from Distant Lands
Word Count: 260
- Optimize with Mari/Kei
- Asuma (optionally offscreen)
- Pitch bringing Mareo to Fire.
- His memory issues pose a problem, but there are options.
- 1: Don't keep him within Leaf itself, rather his own cottage nearby where he can be visited/brought goods.
- 2: He could expend his chakra before visiting so he doesn't harm anyone while in the human path.
- 3: He can keep a Bear with him to keep him company/rein him in.
- 4: See what help Tsunade/the Yamanaka can offer his mind. Maybe pacification genjutsu, if he consents.
- His memory issues pose a problem, but there are options.
- Pitch bringing Mareo to Fire.
- Visit Mareo
- Apologize for not visiting more frequently. Many issues required Hazou's ongoing attention, some good, some bad.
- Akane (the one who reminded Mareo of his niece) disappeared on a mission, presumed dead.
- The Goketsu also recently landed upon a great windfall. They're likely one of the richer Clans in the world at this point.
- Lately, some of his subordinates and village have been angry with him for miscellaneous reasons, including being accused of heresy.
- Hazou and several members of his Clan aren't originally from Leaf, and Hazou's been especially slow on the uptake. Some of the nuances of Leaf culture are still lost on him. Things are mostly fine now but it did take up a lot of his attention.
- That being said... if Mareo were interested in joining the Goketsu, but concerned with being an outsider in Leaf, he'd be in good company. For its problems, Leaf's still a great home.
- The leader of Leaf, Sarutobi Asuma, is the Monkey Summoner. If Mareo/Kumafuwafuwa would like to speak to him directly, Hazou could arrange it.
- Apologize for not visiting more frequently. Many issues required Hazou's ongoing attention, some good, some bad.
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- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'd be down to do this or something similar in the next cycle. Ideally we can get a Yuno discussion in there as well.
Q: do you view this as the first step? How much progress do you think would be made?
I think it's as likely as not that he tries to outrageously screw us or outright refuses. And then our relationship deteriorates further.
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
I mean no, if it's a gross oversimplification, by definition it doesn't fit. It's basically ignoring all context and details and making a wide sweeping generalization that no longer fits.
And I never said it's legal, I said it's a killable offense. There's is a pretty huge difference.
Failing to dispute it is very close. Especially when it's the emphasis of her argument and all we have to do is clarify our stance and the whole thing blows over.
We've likely spent more than an hour with her already. She wants more clearly. And yes, allocating precious "keep everyone alive" time to meeting random clan adoptees is pretty unreasonable.
And Shadow Clones are a state secret with unclear OPSEC in that it's unlikely to be allowed for such trivial things.
You completely made stuff up by trying to guess what you thought I was trying to say. But you failed, and thus made a bunch a stuff up.
The clan, the village, Hazou himself, etc.
Except "the audacity" has already been explained as "she had the audacity to basically tell us she's going to leave and spread clan secrets, while yelling at us, and flinging serious accusations at us, we should thus dispose of her as is the norms of this setting." by me. You're just kinda adding the stuff into that. Which is why I said you're making stuff up.
In a military society that depends on the military for life and death...it literally is a synonym for important. Even just "more useful" tends to be a synonym for important. The definition is literally "of great significance or value; likely to have a profound effect on success, survival, or well-being."
Yes. No. Yes. Yes. Yes.
In order.
Ignoring that she's accusing of us negligence and essentially murder via negligence and that she's all but saying she's leaving the clan and taking our secrets with her.
- Asuma wouldn't care. Nor does it really matter if he approves.
- It wouldn't prove anything right, it's normal clan stuff.
- Leaf barely follows it's own laws, especially to the letter. See: Civilians being bullied by Ninja.
...no. We just killed a bunch of bandits and let Isan get nuked. We also killed people to cover up stuff, watched as Haru killed people for information, and we're pretty OK with Yuno being murderous and Mari being very uh...coercive because they're useful.
None of that is stuff that anyone in our actual life would want to sponsor, but Hazou does it just fine every day and with a smile on his face.
Quite literally I never have. And it never has been. But continue making up stuff. I'm one of the few who didn't defend the blatant evil that was Asuma's 'cleaning up' of Isan.
This isn't really the case. She's a traumatized soldier. A deadly one who can kill very well and has state secrets and secrets that our survival as a clan may very well depend on. She lashes out at us because she sees us as weak, and it's not simple lashing out, because Hazou himself is concerned she might leave the clan.
The difference between the setting and real life is astronomical. It's so wide that it's not really comparable. And that's why the response is drastically different. Usually the teenager lashing out as someone isn't a certified trained killer who can ruin your life by simply leaving you.
That's why it's weird to try to make judgments off statements made in the context of this setting, because real life usually doesn't apply. Probably why Hazou often finds himself in sticky situations as we try to make it apply.
[X] Action Plan: Reaching Out
@FaintlySorcerous one request if you can find the word count for it: have Hazou begin regularly/semiregularly attending religious services and festivals, as Ino recommended.
@FaintlySorcerous one request if you can find the word count for it: have Hazou begin regularly/semiregularly attending religious services and festivals, as Ino recommended.
- Location
- Yes.
[X] Conduct Kagome-style negotiations with Ritsuo