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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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RandomOTP said:
Blerg.

Can we timeskip until this Jashin arc is over, and Yuno is un-brainwashed? We just wanted to meet with the Akatsuki in Hot Springs, throw money at them, and then return to Leaf so we can finish the Minato Seals. ;-;
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I don't think the qms would appreciate us time skipping to avoid a crisis.....

RandomOTP said:
Or rather, it's like you're helping out the gardener, and then someone else says that the gardener is your serf.
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Not quite. It's as if that but you are a seemingly omnipresent being above the gardeners comprehension. In that case, the gardener being called your servant makes more sense, no?
Shrooms said:
Which part do you consider a lie/manipulation? Hazou in this very chapter internally admitted to Jashin affiliation. The plan that talked to Yuno said, "Engage with Jashinism seriously" and "Be authentic." I think this is where the QM headache of 'keeping Hazou characterization consistent' really shows itself, cuz it seems pretty clear to me people aren't on the same page about his stance on Jashin, especially when it's colored by what they personally want that stance to be
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I think most voters are between "poke jashin to get shinies" and "this supposedly evil god seems cool" generally. This is apparent because hazou has been poking jashin multiple times in our plans. For example we invoke jashin before the hyena fight. So it's hard to say that hazou genuinely 100% jashin actions is a lie.
Aodyssey said:
Also there's the fact that we murdered her entire village and she might not approve, for sentimental reasons (It's my village/*I* should have been the one to do the murders)
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We should do well to make sure that stays hidden....

We cant have another crisis on our hands and I'm sure yuno finding out that will not be pretty at all. So does noburi finding out that and we keeping it from him.

I'm starting to see u know, that hazou treats yuno like a second class family member. We lie and keep secrets from her all the time, in a way that doesn't happen with the rest of our group. Depending on the interpretation of hazous jashinism, the entire conversation with yuno can either go from somewhat genuine talk to outright manipulation.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
The part where we acted like we authentically believed in Jashin as something we're really into, at opposed to a weird supernatural entity with whom we have serious ideological beef.

Uplift is functionally incompatible with Hidan's interpretation of Jashinism (e.g., blood for the blood god). The only death that Uplift is actually okay with is old age, and by 'old age', I mean 'world-class medical ninjutsu can do no more for this person'. We only believe in balance insofar as right now, the universe is dying and we want to move towards equilibrium...and then all the way past it into the dawn of a new era for humanity.
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That's an issue with hazous actions so far that has been inconsistent; Hazou on one hand thinks jashin is an evil god completely against his beliefs,. At the next, he started poking it curiously and trying to get favours(hyena fight).

This is the reason that the qm has been grappling with in regards to hazous interaction with jashin. Our action afaik has been somewhat contradictory.
 
Korporati said:
I'm starting to see u know, that hazou treats yuno like a second class family member. We lie and keep secrets from her all the time, in a way that doesn't happen with the rest of our group. Depending on the interpretation of hazous jashinism, the entire conversation with yuno can either go from somewhat genuine talk to outright manipulation
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This is just how ninja life is. There is no expectation that secrets won't be kept. We keep secrets and expect everyone else to do the same.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
They aren't contradictory at all. We think Jashin probably exists, has probably granted us divine favours, and probably has goals which are not aligned with our goals.
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Specifically, we think:
eaglejarl said:
Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on Jul 8, 2023 at 7:25 PM, finished with 166 posts and 14 votes.
  • 37
    [X] [Jashin] Jashin is a real and powerful entity that has legitimately chosen us to carry out Uplift. We're going along for the ride because we intend to Uplift anyways, and Jashin is more than welcome to support that.
    [X] Whatever EJ wants to write, we trust him.
    [X] Interlude: Hiruzen and Jiraya Teach the Hyūga Elders the Pink Pony no Jutsu
    [X] Action Plan: Exploring Viability
    [X] Interlude: Legitimately Anything Wholesome. The Last Few Weeks' Updates Have Been Stressful AF
    [X] Interlude: Hazou-Pilot and Ino Fairly Negotiate for Goo Bombs, in Good Faith, Like Reasonable Adults
    [x] Action Plan: A Mild Timeskip, with SCIENCE (Barrier Version)
    [X] Action Plan: Yuno/Jashin
    [X] Interlude: Jin
    [X] Interlude: Goketsu Sealmasters
    [X] Interlude: Kakuzu and Kagome have a talk
    [x] Action Plan: A Mild Timeskip, with SCIENCE
    [X] Interlude: A puppetmaster no more
    [X] Hidan's assault of Rock, as seen from the perspective of an ordinary Rock-nin
    [X] Continue Previous Plan
    [X] Action Plan: Experimental Frenzy, AMI edition
    [X] Send Ami a Seal scroll full of shaved ice as a thank you present. Taking out the trash is hard work.
    [X] Action Plan: Sealing Stagnancy
    [X] Interlude: Any
    [X] Interlude: Hazou and Family Goes on a Picnic and to the Onsen
    [X] Harumitsu Meets Honoka
    [X] Honoka and Kagome
    [X] Jin and Haru, Buddy Cop Drama
    [X] Mio and Noburi, A Grief Shared
    [X] The βetter Hazō
    [X] [crack] Jashin, the newly frocked Priest of Hazō
    [X] Interlude: Hazou has a sexy dream about Lady Jashin
    [X] Get Yuno and/or Hidan to make us a Jashin frock
    [x] (Interlude): Whatever Happened to the Team Downfall Pissants?
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Voting is closed. It's going to be an interlude but I figured I should close it up regardless.
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FaintlySorcerous said:
They aren't contradictory at all. We think Jashin probably exists, has probably granted us divine favours, and probably has goals which are not aligned with our goals.
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I agree with FS. I also think that worship is probably not the right word, we don't revere Jashin. We don't think they're morally great being, or that they will point us the correct way through life, or that we would do anything for them. In fact, there is very little we're willing to do for them that we weren't already going to do.

Hazō is... Surfboarding through this sea of chaos, and Jashin is a rogue wave that just so happens to be going the same way as Hazō. It's neat, and we're not going to spit in the face of this boon, but we're also not going to help it capsize the ocean liner that is in front of it. In fact, we'll probably try to save them.
 
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Sir Stompy said:
This is just how ninja life is. There is no expectation that secrets won't be kept. We keep secrets and expect everyone else to do the same.
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Yeah but that sorta doesn't happen with anyone who is in our inner family circle.(Which I view as team uplift+ yuno).

Granted theres a lot of reason to that, most of them probably reasonable and make sense.
FaintlySorcerous said:
They aren't contradictory at all. We think Jashin probably exists, has probably granted us divine favours, and probably has goals which are not aligned with our goals.
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Then I don't think our conversation with yuno was 100% dishonest manipulation in my view. If we believe that then we are sorta opportunitistically into jashin, atleast in the ways that it and as long that it benefits uplift. Us talking about jashinism being associated with uplift and the whole "birth aspect" might have been mental gymnastics, but it wasn't a completely dishonest lie/manipulation in that case.
 
Korporati said:
Yeah but that sorta doesn't happen with anyone who is in our inner family circle.(Which I view as team uplift+ yuno).
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This is just flat out not true. Look at Mari and Kei lying to Hazou and manipulating him in the recent update which was to be about our suspicions about the Tower's hand in Akane's death.

I agree that it would be nice if such was the case. And arguably there is much more of an expectation of such, but it doesn't happen.

In this case. Yuno learning about Isan's destruction would be disastrous for the entire world.
 
Sir Stompy said:
This is just flat out not true. Look at Mari and Kei lying to Hazou and manipulating him in the recent update which was to be about our suspicions about the Tower's hand in Akane's death.

I agree that it would be nice if such was the case. And arguably there is much more of an expectation of such, but it doesn't happen.

In this case. Yuno learning about Isan's destruction would be disastrous for the entire world.
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I never said anything about other family members to hazou. I was only referring to his behavior to them specifically. Can you provide me with an example of him doing that, that isn't under life or death situation? IIRC he never does
 
Korporati said:
Then I don't think our conversation with yuno was 100% dishonest manipulation in my view. If we believe that then we are sorta opportunitistically into jashin, atleast in the ways that it and as long that it benefits uplift. Us talking about jashinism being associated with uplift and the whole "birth aspect" might have been mental gymnastics, but it wasn't a completely dishonest lie/manipulation in that case.
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Yeah this is my thinking as well. Some players are acting like Hazou is puppetmastering Yuno over here but like, I've never had the impression he didn't believe what he was saying. At worst, he was exaggerating his actual beliefs (also debatable imo), but I don't think he's lied about them to her.
 
Sir Stompy said:
He also has goals that are aligned with ours. And apparently that's enough for him to grant Hazou his favor.

You'd think a god would choose a mouthpiece more aligned with his goals.....
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Well we seem to be one of the most successful actor in achieving that side of the equilibrium and probably the only one that isn't afraid of a murder death god and is willing to poke the god and his favours for our purposes so...
 
Korporati said:
I never said anything about other family members to hazou. I was only referring to his behavior to them specifically. Can you provide me with an example of him doing that, that isn't under life or death situation? IIRC he never does
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Oh Hazou's behavior? IDK proobably not. But he lives in a culture where it is expected and normal. So I don't really see the problem here tbh.

If Yuno was worthy of our trust (not a murder cultist) we would trust her. Up until now we had a good track record of trusting her, then she did some really crazy shit.

The whole thing with Isan is just way over Hazou's paygrade. That's Asuma's fault, the only thing you can blame Hazou for is not going missing over it, and indeed I'm sure some ninja might have.
Korporati said:
Well we seem to be one of the most successful actor in achieving that side of the equilibrium and probably the only one that isn't afraid of a murder death god and is willing to poke the god and his favours for our purposes so...
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Jashin just shrugs and says it's close enough.
 
ProperAttorney said:
Can't be brainwashed if you don't have a brain anymore... Which is what Asuma might do if he finds out this lady is serious. There's no need for a link to Isan anymore.
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OTOH she's one of Leaf's strongest ninja...so it's more likely she'll be sent out on missions 24/7 until she finally bites it.
Lysbeth Succubus said:
You know, from what happened before, especially the emotions with the Squirrefolk ninja, I always pictured you as a moral absolutist who'd fight tooth and nail to reduce the amount of evil in the world. I now notice that I am confused
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lolwhat
 
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