I think the problem isn't Ino, but Asuma, as in he would basically "force" the Yamanaka to take the scroll.

If the scroll hunt is fully Goketsu resourced we would have the sole claim on the scroll; there wouldn't be a Yamanaka claim for Asuma to force.

I would expect that our hiring or trading for Yamanaka support on our mission still counts as fully gouketsu resourced.

Only issue I see is if maybe there are rumours of Ino giving us those resources free or discounted in which case it's a bit sketchy. But the Yamanaka are well respected and that would be quite the accusation that Ino is favouring us over her clan so I think we'd be fine
 
Does the Hag Clan have any proof, or just speculation? If it's just that, then I say "fuck it, black paper seals."

And even if they have proof, Asuma already told both clans to sit down and shut up. We were already made to pay the Hagoromo back all the money that they lost during our shadow war. Presumably, that includes the loss of their shack.

So let's use black paper seals.
Thoughts on a general opsec seal that turns white seal quality paper black? It shouldn't effect the seals on the paper, as that paper is no longer white.
 
She's our beloved, just give her the goo bombs.
We don't need to make this into haggling. We can just help, and trust her to reciprocate if the situation is reversed.

Why not give her a choice?


"Good idea. I can put together a few hundred high-chunin tier goo bombs for your genin, that should be decisive in any remotely fair fight.
But if Asuma's permission to trade directly extends beyond genin usage, we'd be happy to trade you an ongoing supply of Jiraiya-tier Goo Bombs for your clan, in exchange for resolve booster or similar goodies."

Let her decide if this is a small favor for our beloved, or a deal between clans. Which does she want?

---
The trick to goo bombs isn't that they're incredibly good, it's that good bombs infused by an S-ranker are incredibly good. A chunin seal master who learns it only ends up with a chunin-level seal, and I suspect essies could invent their own version if they wanted to.

Giving the yamanaka genin non-SSA goo bombs is good enough for fighting anything short of a jounin, which isn't a fight a genin can win either way. And a chunin will have other chunin-level options to rely on, so they don't get as much benefit from useing the clan's limited stock of goo bombs.

We won't need to worry about rudely writing and enforceing an adversarial contract, because the ideal way for the yamanaka to use the seals is the way we agreed on.

If they want to reverse-engineer goo bombs tp get more/better bombs, it would be easier and more effective to just make a deal with Hazou, leaf's (second?) best sealmaster. Which we would be happy to do, and can negotiate.
 
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She's our beloved, just give her the goo bombs.
We don't need to make this into haggling. We can just help, and trust her to reciprocate if the situation is reversed.

This seems like a bad precedent. Ino and Hazou aren't just two people in a relationship. They're both Clan Heads of two different clans. They have responsibilities and duties to the people under their authority.

Hazou isn't just Hazou-the-Boyfriend, or Hazou-the-Sealmaster. Hazou is also Hazou-the-Goketsu-Clan-Head. Hazou has a responsibility to the Institution that is the Goketsu Clan. Hazou has a duty to his many hundreds ("nearly a thousand") Goketsu Civilians under his care. Hazou has a duty to his many subordinate Goketsu Ninja.

Hazou has a duty to build the Goketsu Clan up from a fledgling Clan to one that can stand even with all the other clans that have had centuries to stockpile and refine their various tricks, tips, and shinies.

Likewise, Ino isn't just Ino-the-Girlfriend, or Ino-the-Ninja. She's also a Clan Head of The Yamanaka Clan, with everything that entails (see: above).

Luckily, the Yamanaka Clan and the Goketsu Clan are trusted allies. This allows for us to relax a bit.

Luckily, the Yamanaka Clan Head is asking for something that is prosocial (protect genin kids), and isn't being presumptuous. She wants them for her genin kids, and she wants to buy them from us, rather than presuming that Hazou would give them to her.

I say we sell her a 6 Month Contract that specifically supplies the Yamanaka Genin with Hazou's Goo Bombs, and then if Ino wants to renew or expand the contract, we can renegotiate. [Edit: under the conditional that no Yamanaka Sealmaster tries to reverse engineer them. And then we can draw them on black paper, just to be safe.]

But just giving them to Ino because they're dating... that's a little disrespectful, imo. Sure, let's not be assholes and charge whatever reasonable, but for free? That's a little... demeaning on a personal level and flagrantly inconsiderate on a political level.
 
Does the Hag Clan have any proof, or just speculation? If it's just that, then I say "fuck it, black paper seals."

And even if they have proof, Asuma already told both clans to sit down and shut up. We were already made to pay the Hagoromo back all the money that they lost during our shadow war. Presumably, that includes the loss of their shack.

So let's use black paper seals.
Still...how could it have been done? 'Too much oil' suggested a storage seal, but where could it have been? The inside of the lampshade was the obvious choice, but that was impossible. Uryū was an idiot, but he would have recognized a storage seal on the lampshade. True, there were already designs inked onto the shade but they were not intricate enough to disguise a seal.

Unless one could ink the seal directly into the darkened areas, whispered the back of his brain. Or draw the seal and then paint over it.

No. That was ridiculous. Painting over a seal was dangerous, everyone knew that, and drawing a seal onto a black region of the paper would be unsafe. There would be no way to identify the brush marks and verify they were accurate. No sealmaster would dare risk infusing a seal that they couldn't verify.

Yet, if it wasn't a storage seal, what was it? With a normal lampshade, perhaps it could have been sandwiched between the plies of the paper, but the shades of the Ancestral Flame were always a single layer of sheer cloth. Regardless, after a fire as intense as this had been, there would be no trace left. No way to identify the culprit.

Still. Could there be any doubt?
Ritsuo doesn't know, but he knows. He'll have a private little victory at being right, but it doesn't matter. There's no proof, only conjecture.
 
Why is this important to keep secret? We're supposed to be stepping down our conflict with the Hag anyway. And he doesn't have any proof that we burned his shack down, just suspicion.

If the Goketsu get wrongfully accused of every minor misfortune (including another clan's misdeeds) because of our ability to put seals on black paper, then we laugh at them, point out how busy we are with the Dragonwar, learning the Bijuu Seal, Clan Head paperwork, and learning all the seals that Asuma orders us to learn.

If the false accusations keep happening, we go to Asuma about them distracting from our progree on Dragons.

If they keep happening after that, we actually start doing the things they've accused us of doing.

For the same reasons giving up secret in ninja world is a really bad idea:
-It reveals we can use Black Seals with all his specific issues (Hagoromo, people will want to capture and obtain Hazou, it lets people prepare countermeasures against this particular secret, it generally means we cannot use it anywhere without being a Goketsu calling card, a bunch of other problems i can't find out at the top of my head).
-It also gives our enemies(and allies, that could even be worse in some cases) information on how we could have created them, remember Shino going "Hazou probably used Earth Ninjutsu to make lenses"? People are smart and can make inferences on how we create things.

Generally in ninja world, the rule is "Do not give away secrets if you can help it" and it follows this rule for a reason, any OPSEC leak could be nothing or could be absolutely catastrophic, and the smart idea is to...not have OPSEC Leaks.

...I see a few things wrong with this.
  • Seals are a one time use, reliant on a continuous supply. Jutsu can be taught to anyone after they've been learned. The original tutor has no control over what their students do with the jutsu.
    • Even if we give her the research notes, it wouldn't be a TN60 attack. The resultant seal would have a TN based on the Yamanaka Sealmaster's sealing level. The whole reason Ino wants Goo Bombs is for her genin to have a TN60 attack available to them.
  • Goo Bombs aren't as great as a what you're asking for.
  • Mari said that doing such a thing would be asking for a jutsu that inherently makes Yamanaka jutsu less effective on thr caster.
    • Not only would trading away a Resolve Boosting jutsu empower Hazou, it would also weaken the Yamanaka Clan because it would make their jutsu less effective on him.
    • It also opens up the threat of propagation. What if Hazou teaches the jutsu to Team Uplift? Or the wider Goketsu Ninja? What if he sells it to another clan, or makes it public domain? The Yamanaka Clan would be horrifically weakened, permanently.

This is why i said "This is just the jumping point to propose a better deal".
We could ask for the jutsu to only be teached to Hazou in exchange for a lifetime supply of Goo Bombs + Hazou personally teaching X amount of seals to their sealmasters, or a Clan secret sharing contract, or Orochimaru's notes or a bunch of other stuff.
Personally i feel that giving it away for free without even trying to obtain the one thing we really want to be a waste: we have a bunch of stuff that ninjas would kill for, a EJounin social spec, Kei and a girlfriend willing to work with us, i feel we should try to obtain something more than "give away one of the most important secrets the clan has for some off-screen stuff that will have absolutely no impact in the narrative or mechanics of the story".
I'm stressing this because we don't have a deadline at the moment, we're deciding to vote on it, so we can refine the plan as much as we want, after all.
 
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Generally ninja world, the rule is "Do not give away secrets if you can help it" and it follow this rule for a reason, any OPSEC leak could be nothing or could be absolutely catastrophic, and the smart idea is to...not have OPSEC Leaks
Compare this to having our seals be lootable from our clan members, there for anyone to research. With black paper seals, the people who murdered TA wouldn't be able to reverse engineer ARS, MARS, Banshee Slayers, etc etc.
 
@Paperclipped, @eaglejarl, @Velorien

Can Hazou make a masterwork sapphire thread (or diamond thread) brush to boost his calligraphy? Or, rather, provide a taggable Aspect for his Calligraphy checks (something along the lines of "Masterwork Tools" or something)? Combined with a perfectly smooth surface to write on, it would remove any bumps/irregularities that might naturally occur, thus allowing for better calligraphy than would ordinarily be possible.

If so, we should make some for Harumitsu, who probably doesn't have very many taggable Aspects for Sealing
 
Compare this to having our seals be lootable from our clan members, there for anyone to research. With black paper seals, the people who murdered TA wouldn't be able to reverse engineer ARS, MARS, Banshee Slayers, etc etc.

We are talking of "very publically reveal black seals to everyone by giving them to genins of other clans", not "Use black seals". How course we should use black seals, if we don't use why did we even invent them? This doesn't mean we need to be stupid in how we use them.
 
This seems like a bad precedent. Ino and Hazou aren't just two people in a relationship. They're both Clan Heads of two different clans. They have responsibilities and duties to the people under their authority.

Hazou isn't just Hazou-the-Boyfriend, or Hazou-the-Sealmaster. Hazou is also Hazou-the-Goketsu-Clan-Head. Hazou has a responsibility to the Institution that is the Goketsu Clan. Hazou has a duty to his many hundreds ("nearly a thousand") Goketsu Civilians under his care. Hazou has a duty to his many subordinate Goketsu Ninja.

Hazou has a duty to build the Goketsu Clan up from a fledgling Clan to one that can stand even with all the other clans that have had centuries to stockpile and refine their various tricks, tips, and shinies.

Likewise, Ino isn't just Ino-the-Girlfriend, or Ino-the-Ninja. She's also a Clan Head of The Yamanaka Clan, with everything that entails (see: above).

Luckily, the Yamanaka Clan and the Goketsu Clan are trusted allies. This allows for us to relax a bit.

Luckily, the Yamanaka Clan Head is asking for something that is prosocial (protect genin kids), and isn't being presumptuous. She wants them for her genin kids, and she wants to buy them from us, rather than presuming that Hazou would give them to her.

I say we sell her a 6 Month Contract that specifically supplies the Yamanaka Genin with Hazou's Goo Bombs, and then if Ino wants to renew or expand the contract, we can renegotiate. [Edit: under the conditional that no Yamanaka Sealmaster tries to reverse engineer them. And then we can draw them on black paper, just to be safe.]

But just giving them to Ino because they're dating... that's a little disrespectful, imo. Sure, let's not be assholes and charge whatever reasonable, but for free? That's a little... demeaning on a personal level and flagrantly inconsiderate on a political level.


@RandomOTP I think a precedent that "we can/will do each other minor favours without needing to negotiate it" is a very good precedent.

I don't see this as being disrespectful, and am supriesd you do. I think it would be good for our relationship.

If Mari / the QMs indicated this was rude, I would change my stance
 
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We are talking of "very publically reveal black seals to everyone by giving them to genins of other clans", not "Use black seals". How course we should use black seals, if we don't use why did we even invent them? This doesn't mean we need to be stupid in how we use them.
It doesn't matter how the knowledge that we can make black paper seals comes out, it leads to the same conclusion: people will know we can make black paper seals. If your point is that we can hide our use of black paper seals, then... Maybe? But definitely not from any looters, so as soon as any of the Goketsu die, the cat is out of the bag.
 
@RandomOTP I think a precedent that "we can/will do each other minor favours without needing to negotiate it" is a very good precedent.

I don't see this as being disrespectful, and am supriesd you do. I think it would be good for our relationship.
Respectfully: Did you even read my quote?

Hazou and Ino aren't just two people in a relationship. Their relationship is more complicated than that. They're not just two people who are dating. They have duties and responsibilities to their respective subordinates that are greater than their relationship. It's part of why Ino was so scared to actually date Hazou.

If we don't carefully navigate these complexities, then Hazou's relationship with Ino will fail. We need to be mindful in how Hazou-the-clan-head interacts with Ino-the-clan-head, or the relationship between Hazou-the-man and Ino-the-woman will be doomed.

The Yamanaka Clan Head is seeking to purchase a medium-to-long-term commission from the Goketsu Clan Head. A commission that would drain the research time of the Goketsu Clan's only S-rank Sealmaster. This drain would thus decrease the amount of time the Goketsu Sealmaster has to work on seals that only he can work on.

Please, I implore you: reread my quoted segment and think it over before you express surprise at my opinion. Think about why I hold this opinion.

This seems like a bad precedent. Ino and Hazou aren't just two people in a relationship. They're both Clan Heads of two different clans. They have responsibilities and duties to the people under their authority.

Hazou isn't just Hazou-the-Boyfriend, or Hazou-the-Sealmaster. Hazou is also Hazou-the-Goketsu-Clan-Head. Hazou has a responsibility to the Institution that is the Goketsu Clan. Hazou has a duty to his many hundreds ("nearly a thousand") Goketsu Civilians under his care. Hazou has a duty to his many subordinate Goketsu Ninja.

Hazou has a duty to build the Goketsu Clan up from a fledgling Clan to one that can stand even with all the other clans that have had centuries to stockpile and refine their various tricks, tips, and shinies.

Likewise, Ino isn't just Ino-the-Girlfriend, or Ino-the-Ninja. She's also a Clan Head of The Yamanaka Clan, with everything that entails (see: above).

Luckily, the Yamanaka Clan and the Goketsu Clan are trusted allies. This allows for us to relax a bit.

Luckily, the Yamanaka Clan Head is asking for something that is prosocial (protect genin kids), and isn't being presumptuous. She wants them for her genin kids, and she wants to buy them from us, rather than presuming that Hazou would give them to her.

I say we sell her a 6 Month Contract that specifically supplies the Yamanaka Genin with Hazou's Goo Bombs, and then if Ino wants to renew or expand the contract, we can renegotiate. [Edit: under the conditional that no Yamanaka Sealmaster tries to reverse engineer them. And then we can draw them on black paper, just to be safe.]

But just giving them to Ino because they're dating... that's a little disrespectful, imo. Sure, let's not be assholes and charge whatever reasonable, but for free? That's a little... demeaning on a personal level and flagrantly inconsiderate on a political level.
 
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Respectfully: Did you even read my quote?

Hazou and Ino aren't just two people in a relationship. Their relationship is more complicated than that. They're not just two people who are dating. They have duties and responsibilities to their respective subordinates that are greater than their relationship. It's part of why Ino was so scared to actually date Hazou.

If we don't carefully navigate these complexities, then Hazou's relationship with Ino will fail. We need to be mindful in how Hazou-the-clan-head interacts with Ino-the-clan-head, or the relationship between Hazou-the-man and Ino-the-woman will be doomed.

The Yamanaka Clan Head is seeking to purchase a medium-to-long-term commission from the Goketsu Clan Head. A commission that would drain the research time of the Goketsu Clan's only S-rank Sealmaster. This drain would thus decrease the amount of time the Goketsu Sealmaster has to work on seals that only he can work on.

Please, I implore you: reread my quoted segment and think it over before you express surprise at my opinion. Think about why I hold this opinion.
Bruh, I get that these discussions can get annoying and get to you, but there is no need for the condescending bold marks when there is a miscommunication.

Wouldn't it be better for everyone if instead of assuming that the other person did not or failed to understand your previous quote, you help explain it a bit more to said person?
 
You know if we really want cool stuff from Ino we should just cut her in on FOOM.
This sounds like a joke, but I'm actually interested in this. Marry her, or get the clan secret agreements expanded or whatever. Do that, sign the document, and share all the goodies. Hazō already had one loved one die, the only solace he has is that he equipped Akane with all his best stuff. Imagine if Ino died and he never gave her a single seal?
 
AMI: "I've been working hard the past year to prove my trustworthiness for FOOM, but you just... trade it away to Ino?"

HAZOU: "To be fair, you set yourself back hard when you started to go kill Mari."

AMI: "I apologized, didn't I?"

HAZOU: "Yup, but you still had to recoup the losses."
 
You know if we really want cool stuff from Ino we should just cut her in on FOOM.
This sounds like a joke, but I'm actually interested in this. Marry her, or get the clan secret agreements expanded or whatever. Do that, sign the document, and share all the goodies. Hazō already had one loved one die, the only solace he has is that he equipped Akane with all his best stuff. Imagine if Ino died and he never gave her a single seal?
Noburi is buying like 2000 CP per FOOMer per diem. That's a lot of chakra. Like 20 genin worth (assume each gives 1/2 of 200 cp) There isn't a ton of space for new FOOMers. If we are cutting Ami in soon then IDK if there's enough chakra in Leaf to do it. People are already suspicious of our chakra expenditure. I'm opposed to this unless we can get more koi. If our pond was outputting 10000 cp then we'd be good.
 
Noburi is buying like 2000 CP per FOOMer per diem. That's a lot of chakra. Like 20 genin worth (assume each gives 1/2 of 200 cp) There isn't a ton of space for new FOOMers. If we are cutting Ami in soon then IDK if there's enough chakra in Leaf to do it. People are already suspicious of our chakra expenditure. I'm opposed to this unless we can get more koi. If our pond was outputting 10000 cp then we'd be good.
Do you know who can likely sweet talk the Wakahisa into parting with more Koi? Ms. Totally-Not-The-Real-Mizukage.
 
Respectfully: Did you even read my quote?

Hazou and Ino aren't just two people in a relationship. Their relationship is more complicated than that. They're not just two people who are dating. They have duties and responsibilities to their respective subordinates that are greater than their relationship. It's part of why Ino was so scared to actually date Hazou.

If we don't carefully navigate these complexities, then Hazou's relationship with Ino will fail. We need to be mindful in how Hazou-the-clan-head interacts with Ino-the-clan-head, or the relationship between Hazou-the-man and Ino-the-woman will be doomed.

The Yamanaka Clan Head is seeking to purchase a medium-to-long-term commission from the Goketsu Clan Head. A commission that would drain the research time of the Goketsu Clan's only S-rank Sealmaster. This drain would thus decrease the amount of time the Goketsu Sealmaster has to work on seals that only he can work on.

Please, I implore you: reread my quoted segment and think it over before you express surprise at my opinion. Think about why I hold this opinion.
Yes. I did.

My post explicitly referred to the dual nature of our relationship. see below.
Let her decide if this is a small favor for our beloved, or a deal between clans.

To explain further: Ino's request seemed ambiguous/mixed as to whether she was asking as our partner or the Yamanaka clan head. It was probably a bit of both.
  • I don't want to respond to a reasonable personal request of "do this easy thing that will help save my family" by going into clan-head mode. this isn't the worst failure mode, but it's establishing limits, saying that our relationship dosen't cover this kind of situation. I'd rather not play hazou this way, and I think a norm that allows us to do modest favours informally is good for Hazou(and Ino)
  • I don't want to respond to a proposed deal between clanheads by just coughing up whatever she was trying to trade for because we're partners. I agree that this is bad for both the clans and our relationship.
There are (to my eye) happy resolutions for both of these requests.
  • If she's asking her beloved for a favour to help her keep the kids in her family alive, we can make a few hundred seals that are mostly just useful to genin, but will improve their surviveability a bunch. This takes maybe 0.5 clone-days, and increases our ability to ask Ino for similar personal favours in the future. A good outcome.
  • If she's proposing a trade deal between clans, we can do that, and we negotiate for something more concrete and immediate. If the thread can't decide, then Ino can offer additional suggestions for what she can trade, and it is in her interest to do so. we get whatever the benefits of the trade deal are, which will be net-positive, because Ino isn't an adversary and doesn't want to screw us. A good outcome.
Both these are good outcomes. I'd be quite happy with either(but I think the first is slightly better). The trick is gracefully clarifying if it's a clanhead or personal request, while indicating that we're open to both.

Thus, I proposed.. well, my post.
Why not give her a choice?

"Good idea. I can put together a few hundred high-chunin tier goo bombs for your genin, that should be decisive in any remotely fair fight.
But if Asuma's permission to trade directly extends beyond genin usage, we'd be happy to trade you an ongoing supply of Jiraiya-tier Goo Bombs for your clan, in exchange for resolve booster or similar goodies."

Let her decide if this is a small favor for our beloved, or a deal between clans. Which does she want?
Does this make sense to you?


----
Personal aside:
@RandomOTP You seem slightly heated, and a your post seemed to me to be a bit uncharitable and a bit insulting. FYI on how you came across to me.
But I get that speaking with more irritation than consideration sometimes happens. I've been guilty of it before. no hard feelings, we're cool.
 
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I think "I prefer our relationship with Ino to have a norm that disallows asking for non-trivial personal favours" or "giving away some chunin-level goo bombs is way more costly than @Left-Hand Mutant is assuming" could be reasonable objections.
 
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If she's asking her beloved for a favour to help her keep the kids in her family alive, we can make a few hundred seals that are mostly just useful to genin, but will improve their surviveability a bunch. This takes maybe 0.5 clone-days, and increases our ability to ask Ino for similar personal favours in the future. A good outcome
Making 300 seals is 25 sealmaster hours of the #2 sealmaster in Leaf. Imagine the value of Jiraiya's time when he and Minato were both alive. So like, that's a lot. Like a lot a lot. Imagine asking Oro to spend 25 hours of drudgery on something cuz he thinks you have a cute bloodline. The value of this is (I estimate) somewhere in the low millions of ryo. Maybe in the low 10s of millions.

We have a duty to our clan members not to give away free stuff. No other clan gives away free stuff. I think that sucks, but like they ain't gonna change. So we have to play this game. I think asking for some compensation in the form of long term missions from Ino is a great deal.
 
SV ate my reply. Shortened version is something like


"CCnJ. Ino, I want to do right by you, the Goketsu, and the Yamanaka. You know the value of the Goo Bombs. I do not know what the Yamanaka can offer in return. I trust you to make a fair, good faith offer in behalf of your clan to my clan. The Goketsu have no need for more money, and I do not know what you can offer on behalf of your clan. The Goketsu's main concern right now is the Dragonwar. Here are the known abilities of the Dragons. Of particular concern are the mental attacks. Knowing all of that, what do you think a fair trade would be between our clans?"
 
SV ate my reply. Shortened version is something like


"CCnJ. Ino, I want to do right by you, the Goketsu, and the Yamanaka. You know the value of the Goo Bombs. I do not know what the Yamanaka can offer in return. I trust you to make a fair, good faith offer in behalf of your clan to my clan. The Goketsu have no need for more money, and I do not know what you can offer on behalf of your clan. The Goketsu's main concern right now is the Dragonwar. Here are the known abilities of the Dragons. Of particular concern are the mental attacks. Knowing all of that, what do you think a fair trade would be between our clans?"
I mean I'm more or less fine with this. I think the mission is a fine alternative if she doesn't have a jutsu she feels comfortable selling for the Goo Bombs. Which are not an existential threat to the Goketsu if they leak.
 
Making 300 seals is 25 sealmaster hours of the #2 sealmaster in Leaf. Imagine the value of Jiraiya's time when he and Minato were both alive. So like, that's a lot. Like a lot a lot. Imagine asking Oro to spend 25 hours of drudgery on something cuz he thinks you have a cute bloodline. The value of this is (I estimate) somewhere in the low millions of ryo. Maybe in the low 10s of millions.
Ah, thanks for the correction. that is more time/effort than I expected. I am hesitant to spend more than one sealaster-working-day on making seals for free.
I notice that I don't know how many Yamanaka genin there are, or how many seals they would need.

We have a duty to our clan members not to give away free stuff. No other clan gives away free stuff. I think that sucks, but like they ain't gonna change. So we have to play this game. I think asking for some compensation in the form of long term missions from Ino is a great deal.
The Goketsu literaly currently give away free seals to all genin. (although that's largely to preserve Akane's memory.)
"What we get" is a norm where we can also ask Ino for modest practical favours, which I suspect to be pretty valuable.

Quibbles aside, your point of "this proposal is more expensive than you assumed, and giving that way for free is unreasonable" is received. I've been convinced, unless we learn that Yamanaka Genin can be reasonably well armed with < 100 seals.

---

I mean I'm more or less fine with this. I think the mission is a fine alternative if she doesn't have a jutsu she feels comfortable selling for the Goo Bombs. Which are not an existential threat to the Goketsu if they leak.
If we want more Till 'n Fills, we could probably just pay for more missions. We have the cash.

If the Hivemind and Ino can't think of something suitable, owing us a future favour is good. sooner or later we'll want somebody mind-walked, if nothing else.
 
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