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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Velorien said:
I'm trying hard to visualise this in a way that makes sense. Let's suppose you have an indestructible arrow, and while it's in flight, something pushes violently against an arbitrary part of the arrow. Are there any circumstances under which the projected result isn't "the arrow ceases to behave like a flying arrow and turns into a generic physics object that careens off in an unpredictable direction until its motion is arrested by another object"?
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Yeah, if the force vector is applied at the exact center of mass of the arrow. Then it will actually behave as video games tell you.

Kei should have a pretty dang good handle on the center of mass of all of her equipment, though I'm not sure it'd be enough to do this... without a stunt at least.
 
Twinnstars said:
Yeah, if the force vector is applied at the exact center of mass of the arrow. Then it will actually behave as video games tell you.

Kei should have a pretty dang good handle on the center of mass of all of her equipment, though I'm not sure it'd be enough to do this... without a stunt at least.
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An arrow is engineered to move forward with minimal air resistance and is fin-stablized. Even with perfect alignment, I would expect a sideways-moving arrow to experience turbulence and uneven drag, and pickup some spin, resulting in increasingly uneven drag. This would result in inaccuracy and spinning/having the pointy bit in the wrong direction.
(This is speculation. I haven't tested this.)

A kunai might or might not perform better than an arrow, no fletching would help, but the flatter shape might be an issue.
Kunai as portrayed in naruto are a bit odd anyway, and I don't want to work to hard to justify why that could be the ideal shape for a wizard's throwing weapon. So mabey it would be ok just because?
 
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Left-Hand Mutant said:
A kunai might or might not perform better than an arrow, no fletching would help, but the flatter shape might be an issue.
Kunai as portrayed in naruto are a bit odd anyway, and I don't what to work to hard to justify why that could be the ideal shape for a wizard's throwing weapon. So mabey it would be ok just because?
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They throw Kunai (which were originally gardening tools) instead of knives, spears, javelins, arrows, or whatever else that might be better suited as a ranged weapon.

There is a skill called "ranged weapons," which dictates how well you can wield ranged weapons.

Doing trick shots (bouncing kunai off of each other, mid-air) is a common training technique in many disciplines (including archery, which is a ranged weapon).

"Time the spin of the kunai a certain way" already falls under trick shots (make sure the kunai's edges don't clang against each other, or you'll ruin the edge).

"Ensure that the spin of the kunai is a certain way when it reaches a certain point in the air" could be a summary for bouncing kunai off of each other, mid-air.

"Ensure that the spin of the kunai is a certain way when it reaches a certain point in the air" is also a summary for using the KEI seal on a kunai.

This seems to fit within the preexisting worldbuilding of MfD. However, since there's the added "propulsion" bit, you need to practice this preexisting skill to account for the changes.

This practice would be mechanically represented in the form of spending XP on the Stunt.
 
Left-Hand Mutant said:
An arrow is engineered to move forward with minimal air resistance and is fin-stablized. Even with perfect alignment, I would expect a sideways-moving arrow to experience turbulence and uneven drag, and pickup some spin, resulting in increasingly uneven drag. This would result in inaccuracy and spinning/having the pointy bit in the wrong direction.
(This is speculation. I haven't tested this.)

A kunai might or might not perform better than an arrow, no fletching would help, but the flatter shape might be an issue.
Kunai as portrayed in naruto are a bit odd anyway, and I don't want to work to hard to justify why that could be the ideal shape for a wizard's throwing weapon. So mabey it would be ok just because?
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We could just commission finned kunai for her
 
Sir Stompy said:
I'm not sure how this works with dodging. If the RW user could anticipate which way the target would dodge, they'd just throw the kunai there instead.
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Nah. Consider peers fighting. You might be able to predict a dodge, but your peer can also dodge your throw when they see it coming. It's a stalemate. Normal explosive tags break the symmetry a bit by denying an area rather than a single parabola. With these, the peer would see the thing be thrown, confidently dodge the entire zone it should be ending up in, then completely blindsided when it alters course to dome them.
The kunai would be completely indistinguishable from a normal explosive kunai, and even the threat of pulling this out once revealed cuts down on a lot of options for the opponent.
Left-Hand Mutant said:
An arrow is engineered to move forward with minimal air resistance and is fin-stablized. Even with perfect alignment, I would expect a sideways-moving arrow to experience turbulence and uneven drag, and pickup some spin, resulting in increasingly uneven drag. This would result in inaccuracy and spinning/having the pointy bit in the wrong direction.
(This is speculation. I haven't tested this.)

A kunai might or might not perform better than an arrow, no fletching would help, but the flatter shape might be an issue.
Kunai as portrayed in naruto are a bit odd anyway, and I don't want to work to hard to justify why that could be the ideal shape for a wizard's throwing weapon. So mabey it would be ok just because?
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Honestly we just need to make her fancy rocks to throw. Screw normal ninja equipment we're an artificer.
She can dome people with hyper dense spheres of corundum that explode in midair to redirect themselves. Once we figure out three d sealing we wont even need to attach paper tags to it anymore!
 
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Twinnstars said:
Once we figure out three d sealing we wont even need to attach paper tags to it anymore!
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"The defendant was acquitted after the defence pointed out that while her fingerprints were indeed on the kunai found at the scene of the crime, the autopsy report listed the cause of death as 'crushed by an enormous weirdly-shaped rock'."
 
Actually, I wonder how effective macerators on thrown weapons would be? The velocities are additive, no? Could also put the seals on the sides of the weapons so that "misses" turn into a volley of rocks coming perpendicular from the attack.
 
Bring Life Away (parody of Swing Life Away by rise against):

Am I loud and clear, or am I breaking up?
Am I still your charm, or am I just bad luck?
Are we getting closer, or are we just getting more lost?

I'll show you mine if you show me yours first
Let's compare scars, I'll tell you whose is worse
Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words

We live in clan compounds and throw life away
We go through our days with minimal rage,
If love is a labor, I'll slave 'til the end
I won't cross these paths until you hold my hand

You've been gone for so long, I think that it's time to move
The winter's so cold, summer's over too soon
So let's pack your bags and return to where big trees grow

I've lost some friends, some that I hardly know
But we've had some times, I wouldn't trade for the world
We chase these days down with talks of the places that we are from

We live in clan compounds and throw life away
We go through our days with minimal rage,
If love is a labor, I'll slave 'til the end
I won't cross these paths until you hold my hand

Bring life away
Bring life away
Bring life away
Bring life away
 
@eaglejarl, @Paperclipped, @Velorien

Can we assume that Hazou and Ino made a trade deal for supplying the Yamanaka Genin with Hazou's personal Goo Bomb seals offscreen, or will that have to take place in an action plan?

If it's the latter, would it be possible to emulate the Estate Plans, or the Opsec Plans, and have the trade deal be its own thing (with a reasonable word limit, maybe 200 or 300 words)?

Ex:

[X] [Goo Bomb Trade] Seals and Uplift
  • Sanity Check and Optimizatize with Mari and Kei. Make sure the deal is fair, and isn't being too demanding or too passive.
  • Duration:
    • One Year from the date that this deal is finalized, with the option of being renewed or renegotiated at the end.
  • The Goketsu Clan
    • Goketsu Hazou will personally make Goo Bombs, rather than passing it off to a different Goketsu sealmaster/sealsmith.
    • For the duration of this trade deal, each Yamanaka Genin will receive a total of ten Goo Bomb seals for their personaluse, and they will be topped off upon returning from each mission.
      • This trade deal covers the genin only. Access for Yamanaka chunnin or jonin must be negotiated separately.
      • The Goo Bombs are to be used by these Yamanaka Genin only. They cannot be given away to other ninja.
      • If another ninja, not covered by this trade deal, requests access to Goketsu Hazou's personal Goo Bomb seals, direct them to the Goketsu Clan Head.
  • The Yamanaka Clan
    • The Yamanaka Clan agrees not to reverse engineer the Goo Bomb seals.
      • If the Yamanaka Clan are discovered to have reverse engineered the Goo Bomb seal, the respective heads of the Goketsu Clan and the Yamanaka Clan will appear before the Hokage for arbitration.
    • The Yamanaka Clan Head agrees to set up a meeting between the Akimichi Clan Head and the Goketsu Clan Head, for the purposes of coming to a trade deal.
      • (a chance at bringing the ever-distant Akimichi Clan closer to the Goketsu Clan, in a similar manner as the Aburame Clan. If successful, will reduce the internal tension between the ISC.)
      • (Now that we've made longterm deals with the neutral Aburame Clan and the more conservative Hyuuga Clan, we might be able to settle some of Choza's concerns about Hazou's "uncompromising" radicalism).
    • Once a month, for the 12-month duration of this trade deal, the Yamanaka Clan will either send out or fund a Till'n'Fill mission to a Fire Country Hamlet for the purposes of building walls, removing boulders/stumps, digging wells, and general arbitration.
      • If it is discovered that one of these missions were falsely reported as completed, the Yamanaka Clan will pay the Goketsu Clan a B-rank mission fee for every mission left unfinished.
    • For the three months immediately following the finalization of this trade deal, the Yamanaka Clan agrees to help Goketsu Mari train her students by making useful-but-not secret parts of their library available to her genin team. This access also extends to Goketsu genin.
      • Shikamaru did something similar for Akane's genin for free, so there's precedent for it.
      • Allows for Goketsu genin and Mari's students to have a basic grasp of psychology (a taggable Aspect on Empathy/Deceit rolls?)
 
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RandomOTP said:
@eaglejarl, @Paperclipped, @Velorien

Can we assume that Hazou and Ino made a trade deal for supplying the Yamanaka Genin with Hazou's personal Goo Bomb seals offscreen, or will that have to take place in an action plan?

If it's the latter, would it be possible to emulate the Estate Plans, or the Opsec Plans, and have the trade deal be its own thing (with a reasonable word limit, maybe 200 or 300 words)?

Ex:

[X] [Goo Bomb Trade] Seals and Uplift
  • Sanity Check and Optimizatize with Mari and Kei. Make sure the deal is fair, and isn't being too demanding or too passive.
  • Duration:
    • One Year from the date that this deal is finalized, with the option of being renewed or renegotiated at the end.
  • The Goketsu Clan
    • Goketsu Hazou will personally make Goo Bombs, rather than passing it off to a different Goketsu sealmaster/sealsmith.
    • For the duration of this trade deal, each Yamanaka Genin will receive a total of ten Goo Bomb seals for their personaluse, and they will be topped off upon returning from each mission.
      • This trade deal covers the genin only. Access for Yamanaka chunnin or jonin must be negotiated separately.
      • The Goo Bombs are to be used by these Yamanaka Genin only. They cannot be given away to other ninja.
      • If another ninja, not covered by this trade deal, requests access to Goketsu Hazou's personal Goo Bomb seals, direct them to the Goketsu Clan Head.
  • The Yamanaka Clan
    • The Yamanaka Clan agrees not to reverse engineer the Goo Bomb seals.
      • If the Yamanaka Clan are discovered to have reverse engineered the Goo Bomb seal, the respective heads of the Goketsu Clan and the Yamanaka Clan will appear before the Hokage for arbitration.
    • The Yamanaka Clan Head agrees to set up a meeting between the Akimichi Clan Head and the Goketsu Clan Head, for the purposes of coming to a trade deal.
      • (a chance at bringing the ever-distant Akimichi Clan closer to the Goketsu Clan, in a similar manner as the Aburame Clan. If successful, will reduce the internal tension between the ISC.)
      • (Now that we've made longterm deals with the neutral Aburame Clan and the more conservative Hyuuga Clan, we might be able to settle some of Choza's concerns about Hazou's "uncompromising" radicalism).
    • Once a month, for the 12-month duration of this trade deal, the Yamanaka Clan will either send out or fund a Till'n'Fill mission to a Fire Country Hamlet for the purposes of building walls, removing boulders/stumps, digging wells, and general arbitration.
      • If it is discovered that one of these missions were falsely reported as completed, the Yamanaka Clan will pay the Goketsu Clan a B-rank mission fee for every mission left unfinished.
    • For the three months immediately following the finalization of this trade deal, the Yamanaka Clan agrees to help Goketsu Mari train her students by making useful-but-not secret parts of their library available to her genin team.
      • Shikamaru did something similar for Akane's genin for free, so there's precedent for it.
      • Allows Mari's students to have a basic grasp of psychology (a taggable Aspect on Empathy/Deceit rolls?)
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Keep in mind that genin are the less reliable and most easy to defeat amongs the Clans ninja, and there is a reason they are not trusted with important clan secrets.
What it's being asked isn't a small favor, not something easy to grant, it's a pretty big thing to give them a seal that they will statistically lose or be killed while using and therefore be obtained by an enemy.

EDIT: I mean, fundamentally, aside from the Clan Secret, the Yamanaka are paying for the services of a Jounin Sealmaster for basically some Till'n'Fill missions, then you add the whole "Clan Secret" aspect, i feel we can use this for something more than "Go do some cool stuff off-screen".
 
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RandomOTP said:
Can we assume that Hazou and Ino made a trade deal for supplying the Yamanaka Genin with Hazou's personal Goo Bomb seals offscreen, or will that have to take place in an action plan?
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Why would major policy decisions not have to be passed in an action plan? That feels like the most important part of MFD being a quest. After we vote in a plan to make an offer I could see letting us write out the specifics to vote on but not before then
 
Lord Marshal said:
Keep in mind that genin are the less reliable and most easy to defeat amongs the Clans ninja, and there is a reason they are not trusted with important clan secrets.
What it's being asked isn't a small favor, not something easy to grant, it's a pretty big thing to give them a seal that they will statistically lose or be killed while using and therefore be obtained by an enemy.

EDIT: I mean, fundamentally, aside from the Clan Secret, the Yamanaka are paying for the services of a Jounin Sealmaster for basically some Till'n'Fill missions, then you add the whole "Clan Secret" aspect, i feel we can use this for something more than "Go do some cool stuff off-screen".
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Eh, scribe it on black paper and that'll cover the potential for opsec leaks.

As for what we get in return... what do we want? What would the Yamanaka even give us?

We can't get jutsu, because of reasons I've listed before. Any seals they may have will just add to our backlog (or be tossed to our junior sealmasters).

What's left? Political support? The Yamanaka are already on the progress side with us, so we can count in their vote for most reasonable things. Genin support? Sure, let's make Mari as great a sensei as possible, and even open it up to our own genin while we're at it.

Till'n'Fills are notoriously overlooked. They're not even taught about at the academy. So let's have the Yamanaka do some. Or maybe build public support for them.
 
RandomOTP said:
Didn't Mari or Kei say that any non-Goketsu who joined us would automatically have claim to the Scroll, and that Asuma wouldn't be able to fight it without being seen as unfairly favoring the Goketsu?

@faflec?
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IMO if she's a paid hireling this isn't an issue. We can ask Mari if that's the case tho.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped if we hire people under the condition that they forefit claim to the Scroll is that a-okay?
 
RandomOTP said:
Didn't Mari or Kei say that any non-Goketsu who joined us would automatically have claim to the Scroll, and that Asuma wouldn't be able to fight it without being seen as unfairly favoring the Goketsu?

@faflec?
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She wouldn't really be repaying us for the goo bombs if she also took the prize of the mission so I'm not sure how that makes sense as compensation. I don't think she'd try to angle for that anyways if we worked it out as a deal. It would be kind of a dick move.
 
RandomOTP said:
Didn't Mari or Kei say that any non-Goketsu who joined us would automatically have claim to the Scroll, and that Asuma wouldn't be able to fight it without being seen as unfairly favoring the Goketsu?

@faflec?
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Paperclipped said:
"Already, the allegations of Gōketsu favoritism are compelling. The Arachnid Scroll, retrieved by an official Leaf team using official Leaf resources, of which Gōketsu's contribution was one component of many, went to Gōketsu without even a consultation with the Clan Council. People are already complaining that I reclaimed land from Leaf's landowners for your clan compound, because they know I would never do it if they had, say, business interests that needed land. Sage grant they never discover that such a large tract of land inside Leaf's walls changed hands for free."
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RandomOTP said:
Eh, scribe it on black paper and that'll cover the potential for opsec leaks.

As for what we get in return... what do we want? What would the Yamanaka even give us?

We can't get jutsu, because of reasons I've listed before. Any seals they may have will just add to our backlog (or be tossed to our junior sealmasters).

What's left? Political support? The Yamanaka are already on the progress side with us, so we can count in their vote for most reasonable things. Genin support? Sure, let's make Mari as great a sensei as possible, and even open it up to our own genin while we're at it.

Till'n'Fills are notoriously overlooked. They're not even taught about at the academy. So let's have the Yamanaka do some. Or maybe build public support for them.
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That leaks black paper seals, and why we can't get Jutsus? We can't with "sell Goo Bombs", but we can absolutely use it as a jumping point to create a more detailed and comprehensive deal.
Ino showed her interest as a buyer, now it's our job to make a compelling proposal.

Shrooms said:
She wouldn't really be repaying us for the goo bombs if she also took the prize of the mission so I'm not sure how that makes sense as compensation. I don't think she'd try to angle for that anyways if we worked it out as a deal. It would be kind of a dick move.
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I think the problem isn't Ino, but Asuma, as in he would basically "force" the Yamanaka to take the scroll.
 
Lord Marshal said:
That leaks black paper seals,
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Why is this important to keep secret? We're supposed to be stepping down our conflict with the Hag anyway. And he doesn't have any proof that we burned his shack down, just suspicion.

If the Goketsu get wrongfully accused of every minor misfortune (including another clan's misdeeds) because of our ability to put seals on black paper, then we laugh at them, point out how busy we are with the Dragonwar, learning the Bijuu Seal, Clan Head paperwork, and learning all the seals that Asuma orders us to learn.

If the false accusations keep happening, we go to Asuma about them distracting from our progree on Dragons.

If they keep happening after that, we actually start doing the things they've accused us of doing.


Lord Marshal said:
why we can't get Jutsus?
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RandomOTP said:
  • Seals are a one time use, reliant on a continuous supply. Jutsu can be taught to anyone after they've been learned.
  • Even if we give her the research notes, it wouldn't be a TN60 attack. The resultant seal would have a TN based on the Yamanaka Sealmaster's sealing level. The whole reason Ino wants Goo Bombs is for her genin to have a TN60 attack available to them.
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Paperclipped said:
Already, the allegations of Gōketsu favoritism are compelling. The Arachnid Scroll, retrieved by an official Leaf team using official Leaf resources, of which Gōketsu's contribution was one component of many, went to Gōketsu without even a consultation with the Clan Council. People are already complaining that I reclaimed land from Leaf's landowners for your clan compound, because they know I would never do it if they had, say, business interests that needed land. Sage grant they never discover that such a large tract of land inside Leaf's walls changed hands for free
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Okay, so the problem here seems to be in the "Official Leaf team using official Leaf resources" using Clan Goketsu resources, including hiring contractors seems like it should be fine.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped, sorry for the double ping, but do you mind elaborating on the status of extra-tower missions? We know they're a thing since the Nara hired a Hyuuga to help with Rift research. Can any Clan post them? Are there restrictions on them? I assume the posting Clan pays for them.
 
ProperAttorney said:
Asuma and the Hagoromo already know it was the Goketsu, that's why Hazō was ordered to train Harumitsu. I'd rather protect our seals than spent another moment worrying about them "finding out" something they already know.
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They suspect it was Hazō. We stayed on the right side of the ninja line there, with our involvement being complete speculation.

If we reveal that we can make black paper seals and claim the process as Clan Secret, well then hmmmm the hagoromo have records of a Gōketsu clan secret being used to attack their vault hmmmm

Note, I am very frustrated by this and wish we could scribe every single seal on black paper.


Oh my fucking God, how did I not think of this before. Let's go the Jiraiya route and declare that we just figured this out lol.

[><] Make a seal that turns all white seal quality paper in the zone into black seal quality paper. Demonstrate it in a clan council, take refuge in the audacity
 
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Twinnstars said:
If we reveal that we can make black paper seals and claim the process as Clan Secret, well then hmmmm the hagoromo have records of a Gōketsu clan secret being used to attack their vault hmmmm
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Does the Hag Clan have any proof, or just speculation? If it's just that, then I say "fuck it, black paper seals."

And even if they have proof, Asuma already told both clans to sit down and shut up. We were already made to pay the Hagoromo back all the money that they lost during our shadow war. Presumably, that includes the loss of their shack.

So let's use black paper seals.
 
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